Quote from: ShieldWife;1066824That idea would go for elves too, it should be about more than just having pointy ears and a high Dexterity.

Oh, but it is; it's about Darkvision too!

I think Bob Something's first point, paraphrase "the optional becomes the expected," is a major one. But it also has to do with Org Play Talk and Power Gamers setting the discussion, and thus mental paradigm (assumed standard) across non-home games. WotC did some survey work and found Feats and Multiclassing is not as popular in play (as in prevalent,) as they thought it was going to be.

There is definitely a "squeaky wheel gets the grease" element among perceptions. Or as I like to think of it, it's that one asshole out of a hundred regular or awesome people that will ruin your day. So too is that "Killfuck Soulshitter, lone wolf assassin" 14 year old power fantasy. They are desperately trying so hard to be different and cool that they all end up the same... and, well, we grew out of that charm.

And it's OK, it's for another generation of youth to feel rebellious and optimized, but end up looking uniform.

One factor that hasn't gotten enough notice is that a lot of this... say Drow Fandom occurred during the 3E era, both with the Drizz't novels providing a geek-culture touchstone, even for people like me (I love to hate Drizz't and RA Salvatore....), while IN GAME Drow were very popular because they had awesome stats and special powers, including free spells, Magic Resistance and MOAR darkvision than anyone else.

Can you have a perfect storm with only two contributing factors?  If so, that creates a perfect storm of snowflake specialness.

And since DMs quickly twigged to the Drow-Rush (like the Gold Rush, only Racist...), players of both Drow Camps began looking at other ways to get their fix for either Spechulnus or Powah by looking at other extremely fringe races, like Tieflings or Gensai... and DMs, a bit like a frustrated parent with a kid constantly asking for a pony, quickly caved when the kid suddenly wanted a dog.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1066809I couldn't place the balrog one. Which one was that?

Mike Mornard, who posts here sometimes as Gronan, was in Gygax's original D&D group. He wanted to play a balrog, and Gary was cool with it.

One can also play Balrogs in Palladium Fantasy. Its not recommended as they are pretty powerful as well. Nor a standard race yet  they have stats if one has a GM willing to allow one.

Quote from: Mistwell;1066841Data disagrees with your guessimate.

Thanks for that link, that is awesome. It confirms theee of my anecdotal observations-- the dragonborn paladin, elf ranger, and especially the tiefling warlock-- are popular 5E combos. But what really amazes me, to the point of non-belief, is that human fighters are the most popular choice.

Quote from: Mistwell;1066841Data disagrees with your guessimate.

Quote from: Aglondir;1066895Thanks for that link, that is awesome. It confirms theee of my anecdotal observations-- the dragonborn paladin, elf ranger, and especially the tiefling warlock-- are popular 5E combos. But what really amazes me, to the point of non-belief, is that human fighters are the most popular choice.

Well, among the combos, tiefling warlock is #10 and dragonborn paladin is #20. The top thirty combos are:

1) HUMAN FIGHTER : 4888
2) ELF RANGER : 3076
3) ELF WIZARD : 2744
4) HUMAN WIZARD : 2568
5) HUMAN ROGUE : 2542
6) HUMAN CLERIC : 2339
7) HUMAN PALADIN : 2326
ELF ROGUE : 2257
9) DWARF CLERIC : 2199
10) TIEFLING WARLOCK : 2188
11) DWARF FIGHTER : 2009
12) HUMAN MONK : 1946
13) HALF-ELF BARD : 1808
14) HALFLING ROGUE : 1797
15) ELF DRUID : 1779
16) GOLIATH BARBARIAN : 1729
17) HUMAN RANGER : 1715
18) HUMAN WARLOCK : 1714
19) HALF-ORC BARBARIAN : 1709
20) DRAGONBORN PALADIN : 1688
21) HUMAN BARD : 1454
22) HUMAN BARBARIAN : 1435
23) HALF-ELF WARLOCK : 1401
24) GNOME WIZARD : 1360
25) ELF MONK : 1349
26) DRAGONBORN FIGHTER : 1335
27) HALF-ELF ROGUE : 1325
28) HUMAN SORCERER : 1324
29) DWARF BARBARIAN : 1323
30) HALF-ELF SORCERER : 1258

Quote from: jhkim;1066899Well, among the combos, tiefling warlock is #10 and dragonborn paladin is #20. The top thirty combos are:

1) HUMAN FIGHTER : 4888
2) ELF RANGER : 3076
3) ELF WIZARD : 2744
4) HUMAN WIZARD : 2568
5) HUMAN ROGUE : 2542
6) HUMAN CLERIC : 2339
7) HUMAN PALADIN : 2326
ELF ROGUE : 2257
9) DWARF CLERIC : 2199
10) TIEFLING WARLOCK : 2188
11) DWARF FIGHTER : 2009
12) HUMAN MONK : 1946
13) HALF-ELF BARD : 1808
14) HALFLING ROGUE : 1797
15) ELF DRUID : 1779
16) GOLIATH BARBARIAN : 1729
17) HUMAN RANGER : 1715
18) HUMAN WARLOCK : 1714
19) HALF-ORC BARBARIAN : 1709
20) DRAGONBORN PALADIN : 1688
21) HUMAN BARD : 1454
22) HUMAN BARBARIAN : 1435
23) HALF-ELF WARLOCK : 1401
24) GNOME WIZARD : 1360
25) ELF MONK : 1349
26) DRAGONBORN FIGHTER : 1335
27) HALF-ELF ROGUE : 1325
28) HUMAN SORCERER : 1324
29) DWARF BARBARIAN : 1323
30) HALF-ELF SORCERER : 1258

That's interesting as well. The top 9 combos are not "special snowflake" races, but the ones that have been around since the early days of the game. And there are only 4 "special snowflake" races in the top 30 (bolding mine).

Quote from: RPGPundit;1066672Take a look at the DnD tag on twitter and all you'll see is hipster kids showing off drawings of their totally non-human orange or red or blue or purple thing, which they'll call 'my boi' or 'this cutie' or whatever, to the point where you wonder whether the fuck they've ever had them inside a dungeon or their whole campaign is just about the characters eating cake while complaining about the patriarchy.

I get the impression that they don't actually play, and just want to show off their (usually bad) drawing of their (completely unoriginal, boring) character.

It's certainly odd, but what bugs me more is when they're wearing these elaborate outfits and dresses that you'd never wear into the dungeon in the first place due to cost and how impractical they'd be (and also because the cost of fancy custom clothing is probably outside of your price range at 1st-level anyway).

QuoteSo what do you think about modern D&D having all these kids playing tieflings, aasimar, genasi, tabaxi, dragonborn etc.?

Is it 'special snowflakeism'? Does it let them show off their (mostly imagined) non-conformity by all doing the exact same thing?

I don't have a problem with a lot of those races in theory (they could make sense in a given setting), but also think that it can be a case of special snowflakism.

I've tried to run campaigns where I restricted classes and races to those that I felt made sense for the setting, and had players piss and moan, possibly just because I said, "This class doesn't fit" or "This race would be exceedingly rare", that they wanted to play that restricted class and/or rare race. As if that just so happened to be the one thing they were hoping to play the entire time.

Over 10 years ago I tried running Age of Worms in 3rd Edition Eberron, which has warforged (kind of like golems), kalashtar (humans with psionic spirits), changelings (like doppelgangers but you can't change your clothes at will), and shifters (you're like a quarter or half therianthrope). I would have allowed all of those since it's all part of the setting, but that apparently wasn't "unique" enough for one player, who argued with me for hours because I wouldn't let him play some bizarre winged half-dragon tiefling monk at 1st-level. He didn't even want to gradually level up and gain all of the shit he'd have: he wanted it all at the start, so he could fly and breath fire and show off to everyone.

I think a big part of it is that they couldn't come up with an actually interesting character, so overcompensate by making it as "cool" and "unique" as possible.

QuoteBut is it basically harmless? Does it add to the game? or make it worse?

I think it's mostly harmless, can add to the game in certain circumstances, but can also make it worse. Really depends on the campaign you want to run and your players.

Quote from: jhkim;1066899Well, among the combos, tiefling warlock is #10 and dragonborn paladin is #20. The top thirty combos are:

1) HUMAN FIGHTER : 4888
2) ELF RANGER : 3076
3) ELF WIZARD : 2744
4) HUMAN WIZARD : 2568
5) HUMAN ROGUE : 2542
6) HUMAN CLERIC : 2339
7) HUMAN PALADIN : 2326
ELF ROGUE : 2257
9) DWARF CLERIC : 2199
10) TIEFLING WARLOCK : 2188
11) DWARF FIGHTER : 2009
12) HUMAN MONK : 1946
13) HALF-ELF BARD : 1808
14) HALFLING ROGUE : 1797
15) ELF DRUID : 1779
16) GOLIATH BARBARIAN : 1729
17) HUMAN RANGER : 1715
18) HUMAN WARLOCK : 1714
19) HALF-ORC BARBARIAN : 1709
20) DRAGONBORN PALADIN : 1688
21) HUMAN BARD : 1454
22) HUMAN BARBARIAN : 1435
23) HALF-ELF WARLOCK : 1401
24) GNOME WIZARD : 1360
25) ELF MONK : 1349
26) DRAGONBORN FIGHTER : 1335
27) HALF-ELF ROGUE : 1325
28) HUMAN SORCERER : 1324
29) DWARF BARBARIAN : 1323
30) HALF-ELF SORCERER : 1258

The only way I can see anything like that happening in AL is if all of those Humans were Variant Humans.

Can I get a definition, please?  What do people mean by 'Special Snowflake'?  And how is it disruptive to a game?

For ME, an attention hog is not limited to the non-standard races, they can be loud with any race/class combo.  So can I get what people are using Special Snowflake for?

Honest query.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1066907Can I get a definition, please?  What do people mean by 'Special Snowflake'?  And how is it disruptive to a game?

For ME, an attention hog is not limited to the non-standard races, they can be loud with any race/class combo.  So can I get what people are using Special Snowflake for?

Honest query.

I use it for something that doesn't fit into the flavor of the rest of the setting and/or requires lots of houseruling or fiat to make work. The 5e player that wanted to play a (fucking Variant) Human Fighter (Cavalier) in fairly by-the-book Forgotten Realms didn't seem like a snowflake until he expressed that he wanted to have a motorcycle as his mount (from the start of the game) and that planned to play like the character like an outlaw biker...

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1066907Can I get a definition, please?  What do people mean by 'Special Snowflake'?  And how is it disruptive to a game?

.

The term originates in the idea that every snowflake (the Ice crystals, not the people) is unique.  There are a depressingly bog standard set of personality types among people that insist they are special and unique, so it is common to insult them by referring to the Unique Snowflake, as the uniqueness of an individual snowflake is not readily apparent to the naked eye.

So players wanting to play a rare and often rule-breakingly special 'Race' are trying to revel in their uniqueness, just like a Snowflake.


Seriously, brah. This is third grader level metaphor.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1066909I use it for something that doesn't fit into the flavor of the rest of the setting and/or requires lots of houseruling or fiat to make work. The 5e player that wanted to play a (fucking Variant) Human Fighter (Cavalier) in fairly by-the-book Forgotten Realms didn't seem like a snowflake until he expressed that he wanted to have a motorcycle as his mount (from the start of the game) and that planned to play like the character like an outlaw biker...

What was he using as fuel?  That proves my point, though.  It doesn't matter what a player makes, it's how it's used.

I was going to apologise for warping the stats for Human Fighters, seeing how many of them I played in 3E...

But then I could point out that my favorite 3e race was, for a time, Aasimar. For those times I wasn't playing a Human Fighter, if a GM allowed LA races. No idea why, other than I just like the concept.