So the wendigo is a nebulous winter demon of Algonquin religion that drives people to cannibalism, and much like Satan in Christianity it exists to illustrate all-important moral lessons. The tribe is all and greed leads to demonic possession, murder and cannibalism.

So why is it when the wendigo is misappropriated by non-Algonquin writers (and it IS misappropriation because for a century or so they were banned from practicing their own religion, so this is part of the many racist issues that first nations peoples still have to deal with today, but that's neither here nor there) it ends up not resembling the original myth at all?

Algernon Blackwood wrote a story titled "Wendigo," but whatever monster appeared in said story didn't act like a wendigo at all and seemed likely to be a particularly sadistic ijiraq (a creature from Inuit myth, not Algonquin).

President Theodore Roosevelt wrote another story titled "Wendigo," but the monster there didn't act like a wendigo either and seemed likely to be a territorial bigfoot or something.

Stephen King's "Pet Sematary" featured a so-called wendigo, but the creature acted like a Kandarian demon from the Evil Dead franchise.

Marvel Comics featured another so-called wendigo, but it was basically a werewolf or were-Sasquatch. Metis myth has the loosely similar "rugaru" (influenced by colonial French myth, name derived from French loup-garou or werewolf) but I doubt that's what they were going for.

The Hannibal television show featured another so-called wendigo, which obviously wasn't one and in this case it seemed to be a peryton. The peryton was actually a practical joke invented by the Book of Imaginary Beings and explicitly mentioned they originated from Atlantis.

In D&D the wendigo is flying furry cannibal dude, while Pathfinder adds horns and burns the feet into stumps.

Google searches are flooded with an absurd zombie weredeer meme that has nothing to do with the Algonquin religion. No joke, I see people conflating the wendigo with Celtic hunter gods and other stupidity.

Seriously, what gives? The original wendigo was awesome specifically because of its status as a Satan-figure within the context of the Algonquin culture and life, but modern writers have turned it into a generic monster devoid of meaning.

[video=youtube_share;wAtMlV5Rgwc]https://youtu.be/wAtMlV5Rgwc[/youtube]

Are you this offended by devils and demons in games? By the appropriation of creatures of Chistianity?

Honestly, this question sounds like a better fit for Tangency on npc.net.

It probably has to do with the comparative difficulty of research in the times the originals were written, and then later versions iterating on those rather than going back to the original source. The pinnacle of this may be Demogorgon, who, according to C. S. Lewis (cf. The Discarded Image), started off as a scribal error for 'Demiurge' before undergoing a transformation into divinity, Demon Prince, and TV monster.

  I believe the version in Michael Surbrook's Ghouls, Ghosts and Golems for the HERO System (there transcribed as 'witiko') is rooted in the original mythology, though.

I was OK with the Wendigo featured in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer book. It was a possessed person that ate people. It also grew claws & fangs and regenerated like mad. Was it accurate to the myth? I frankly don't give a fuck.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066272Marvel Comics featured another so-called wendigo, but it was basically a werewolf or were-Sasquatch. Metis myth has the loosely similar "rugaru" (influenced by colonial French myth, name derived from French loup-garou or werewolf) but I doubt that's what they were going for.

Where did you get that?

In Marvel the Wendigo is a curse laid on someone who eats human flesh. They change into the monster effectively permanently until slain. If I recall correctly there can only be one Wendigo at any given time in the Marvel mythology. That is how the wendigo was at least into the early 2000s.

Also... When was a Wendigo added to D&D. I do not recall one in pre 3e D&D.

And you missed the Wendigo in Call of Cthulhu.

As far as DnD and Pathfinder, eh, it's kind of hard to kill a "moral lesson" with a sword, so they made it a tangible enemy to fight. Maybe the Wendigo is just a more brutal version of The Ant and The Grasshopper. Better help stock up for winter or we are going to be chewing on you til March.

Quote from: Joey2k;1066275Are you this offended by devils and demons in games? By the appropriation of creatures of Chistianity?

Honestly, this question sounds like a better fit for Tangency on npc.net.

I'm not offended. I'm annoyed that the wendigo ISN'T treated like a Satan-figure, as it is treated in Algonquin religion. "Wendigo psychosis" is a real thing.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1066279It probably has to do with the comparative difficulty of research in the times the originals were written, and then later versions iterating on those rather than going back to the original source. The pinnacle of this may be Demogorgon, who, according to C. S. Lewis (cf. The Discarded Image), started off as a scribal error for 'Demiurge' before undergoing a transformation into divinity, Demon Prince, and TV monster.

  I believe the version in Michael Surbrook's Ghouls, Ghosts and Golems for the HERO System (there transcribed as 'witiko') is rooted in the original mythology, though.

The misappropriation of the wendigo took off in the age of the internet when research material was a google search away, so as far as excuses go this only makes modern writers look really stupid.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1066281I was OK with the Wendigo featured in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer book. It was a possessed person that ate people. It also grew claws & fangs and regenerated like mad. Was it accurate to the myth? I frankly don't give a fuck.

The myths are fairly nebulous to begin with, being orally passed down and all. But the zombie weredeer is definitely wrong.

Quote from: Omega;1066282Where did you get that?

Do a google image search of "wendigo" and you'll notice the majority of the images are of zombie weredeer.

Quote from: Omega;1066282In Marvel the Wendigo is a curse laid on someone who eats human flesh. They change into the monster effectively permanently until slain. If I recall correctly there can only be one Wendigo at any given time in the Marvel mythology. That is how the wendigo was at least into the early 2000s.

There's no creature in Algonquin myth matching that criteria, but it has the most similarity to the Rugaru of Metis myth. Which, as I said, was influenced by the French werewolf.

Quote from: Omega;1066282Also... When was a Wendigo added to D&D. I do not recall one in pre 3e D&D.

Fiend Folio 3e, page 186.

Quote from: Omega;1066282And you missed the Wendigo in Call of Cthulhu.

The Cthulhu mythos does this weird meta-fictional thing in which the alien god Ithaqua inspired the myths of the wendigo. And by "inspired", I mean its mere presence caused mass death and madness.

Quote from: Mind Crime;1066283As far as DnD and Pathfinder, eh, it's kind of hard to kill a "moral lesson" with a sword, so they made it a tangible enemy to fight. Maybe the Wendigo is just a more brutal version of The Ant and The Grasshopper. Better help stock up for winter or we are going to be chewing on you til March.

If it's not the same thing, don't use the name. Pathfinder prides itself on being accurate to mythology, which is totally a lie by the way. They mutilate the myths almost worse than D&D does.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1066285If it's not the same thing, don't use the name.

If you applied that evenly across the board, wouldn't that eliminate a large chunk of RPG material?

Quote from: Mind Crime;1066287If you applied that evenly across the board, wouldn't that eliminate a large chunk of RPG material?

Feature, not bug?

Quote from: Mind Crime;1066287If you applied that evenly across the board, wouldn't that eliminate a large chunk of RPG material?

And fiction in general. Plenty of complaints about Norse mythology in the Marvelverse.

Quote from: Mind Crime;1066287If you applied that evenly across the board, wouldn't that eliminate a large chunk of RPG material?

I suppose I do have a similar issue with the Gorgon.

The complaint is reasonable, but hardly unique. I mean, excluding A Wind in the Door, has any work of fiction done Cherubin justice? D&D and Medusa/Gorgons? Half of our vampire tropes coming from either movies (how many vampires were destroyed by sunlight before Nosferatu?) or a drunken summer spent with the Shelley's, even though the vampire myth covers hundreds to thousands of years and multiple cultures.

I don't want to sound too dismissive, but this is hardly out of the ordinary.

OTOH, I understand the feeling of being irked when something I like gets 'messed up' in some interpretation.

People's understanding of mythology is very limited and heavily affected by the imitations of imitations of the imitated misunderstanding that is pop culture. This get more and more true the more the creature is obscure and lack concrete written sources.

Quote from: Mind Crime;1066287If you applied that evenly across the board, wouldn't that eliminate a large chunk of RPG material?

I guess so?

Writers need to actually know the original myths, since there's no excuse in the age of Wikipedia and Google Books. They should at least do something to disambiguate their creations so that readers aren't confused by the massive disparity between the game monster and the myths that everyone is familiar with.

Quote from: Joey2k;1066291I suppose I do have a similar issue with the Gorgon.

That's a perfect example. Most people know that Medusa is a gorgon and that gorgons are snake-haired monstresses. Most people do not imagine the gorgon as a scaly bull that exhales toxic gas.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1066294The complaint is reasonable, but hardly unique. I mean, excluding A Wind in the Door, has any work of fiction done Cherubin justice? D&D and Medusa/Gorgons? Half of our vampire tropes coming from either movies (how many vampires were destroyed by sunlight before Nosferatu?) or a drunken summer spent with the Shelley's, even though the vampire myth covers hundreds to thousands of years and multiple cultures.

I don't want to sound too dismissive, but this is hardly out of the ordinary.

OTOH, I understand the feeling of being irked when something I like gets 'messed up' in some interpretation.

I've posted numerous articles to my blog complaining about how fantasy gaming gets the myths wrong and how much cooler the monsters would be if they were actually based on the original myth.

Giants, for example. In D&D they're just big humans, sometimes with elemental powers. In myth they have snakes for legs, the bodies of giant wolves, and other crazy awesome stuff that you never see in D&D.

Likewise for trolls. In D&D they're green regenerating brutes. In myth they ranged in size from dwarves to mountains, have tails, turn to stone in sunlight, variable numbers of heads and limbs, and tons of other crazy awesome stuff you never see in D&D.

Quote from: Bob Something;1066296People's understanding of mythology is very limited and heavily affected by the imitations of imitations of the imitated misunderstanding that is pop culture. This get more and more true the more the creature is obscure and lack concrete written sources.

That's not a remotely decent excuse in the age of Wikipedia and Google Books. Now it takes a few seconds, maybe a minute or two, to find reliable sources on these things.