I'm fine with drow as is, but I think they can get stale, fast.  I've used them as a major antagonist group about once per decade.  Usually, they are something nasty out in the campaign world that the players are unlikely to run into much.  Similar to mind flayers in that respect.  

I very seldom use a "monster" as a player character option, but my current campaign has completely dropped the drow history and themes, while keeping the stats and name as a "mountain elf" race.  I wanted something like that, and wasn't planning on using the traditional drow in the campaign at all.  Basically, laziness on my part.  I had some minor reservations about it, but the players have run with it in the spirit it was intended.  Of course, it helps that I've got gnomes replacing, even surpassing, the role that drow usually hold.  The players are completely spooked about the gnomes, even the one with a dark elf rogue.

Quote from: SHARK;1060262In my own campaigns, well--I make the Drow a totally ruthless and evil culture, with few redeeming qualities whatsoever. They are entirely "politically incorrect" and I am perfectly ok with that. My Drow are totally evil, racist, imperialist, and wicked villains that love to rape, torture and enslave just about everyone they get their hands on. LOL.

If you like the Drow, why do you like them?

Pretty much for the same reasons you do, SHARK:  they're almost-irredeemably evil, and make great "wheels within wheels" string-pulling bad guys/gals.  

Quote from: SHARK;1060262Do you think the Drow are "Problematic?" If so, in what ways?

No, not in the least.  I don't recreate their quotidian atrocities in-game, at-the-table every time they appear, but they are undoubtedly evil, and definitely cross the bounds of "cultural decency" even as written in 1978 (check out the private quarters of Eclavdra, Charinida, and other high-ranking drow priestesses and nobles in D3 and Q1).  And I'm perfectly OK with that---evil is, after all, evil, and if we collectively can't confront evil in its various forms in an imaginary game, how can we possibly expect to succeed in the real world when real evil asserts itself and needs to be fought?

Quote from: SHARK;1060262Do you use the Drow in your campaigns?

I play in Greyhawk, so of course I use drow.  They're not terribly common, but they're there, slowly working to snuff out the sun (among other projects of note!).  

Quote from: SHARK;1060262Have you done anything bizarre with the Drow, or somehow made them different?

I've tried to differentiate and broaden the drow from their spiders-Lolth-matriarchy baseline, to allow different drowic vaults to follow different social hierarchies, patron gods/demons/whatevers, slaves, fetishes, etc.  In my Greyhawk campaigns, drow variously worship:

- Lolth and other demon princes including Graz'zt, Alrunes, Abraxus, Zuggtmoy, Soneillon, Rhyxali, and Tiamat  
- the Elder Elemental God (generally a front for the Lovecraftian Mythos)
- the Greyhawk gods Iuz, Incabulos, Erythnul, Beltar, and perhaps Ralishaz (generally not Tharizdun--even drow have standards! )
- the Great Old Ones/Outer Gods:  Hastur, Yog-Sothoth, Azathoth, et al.
- themselves via ancestor worship

Thus many of the drow who worship Graz'zt, Soneillon, and Rhyxali are oriented toward shadows vs. spiders as their "theme" if you will.  Those that worship Tiamat, Demogorgon, and Azazel are dragon-/lizard-themed, etc.

Allan.

Quote from: sureshot;1060273No they are not problematic imo. They betrayed the Elven race and were marked on their skin for it. If the color was yellow they would be accused of being racist against those of Asian descent. There is no pleasing the regressive rpg element.

Some people bitched about the black skin. So for some years TSR made drow a sort of dark blue or purple.

Some people still bitched.

Some people are insane...

Drow have always been weird and somewhat awkward.

Explaining Drow to new players, even back in high school, always provoked the idea that there was something a bit dodgy there.  The usual response has always been - if they live deep underground and never see the sun shouldn't they have pale skin!  To which the obvious answer is 'yes'.

My first experience with Dark Elves was with the Titan setting for Fighting Fantasy - and because the art was all in black and white, it never occurred to me they were supposed to have dark skin - why would they?

As for the drow. For fucks sake not this again?

This moron screed has been going on since the 80s or 90s. And it was stupid then and it has not gotten any less mentally stunted since.

And if you changed drow to green, blue, plaid they'd still bitch "because plaid is a stand in for black and that is racist!"

Quote from: Omega;1060356Some people bitched about the black skin. So for some years TSR made drow a sort of dark blue or purple.

Some people still bitched.

Some people are insane...

Pretty much agreed and seconded. Though thankfully in my gaming groups they are sane and more interested in playing rpgs. Instead of worrying whether the Giants in the Against the Giants module are not to be treated as evil and more the noble savage and misunderstood and victims of the evil colonial adventurers.

As a society yes?  It's a society of psychopaths that uses Assassination as a method of promotion.  That does not allow a society to last longer than 2 generations.  So it's clear that Lolth uses her people as Lego toys and prevents them from wiping themselves out on a whim.

The original D3 cover was monochrome, so the drow on it is actually white (and with black hair). But the later printing had one that was black-purplish and on the back cover, blue-black. That had always been my mental image of them.

The image where they look more like black humans with white hair seems to be in the later 80s, with the more realistic artwork of Parkinson on the cover of the GDQ supermodule.

No.  However, some people who opine on RPGS, but probably don't play any RPGs because they can't find anyone in the Real World to tolerate their sanctimony, are problematic.  

That said, some of the mid to late '80's TSR art for the Drow was hilarious. The Drow as Solid Gold dancers.  :eek:   As exemplified by the aforementioned GDQ super-module.

Quote from: JeremyR;1060377The original D3 cover was monochrome, so the drow on it is actually white (and with black hair). But the later printing had one that was black-purplish and on the back cover, blue-black. That had always been my mental image of them.

The image where they look more like black humans with white hair seems to be in the later 80s, with the more realistic artwork of Parkinson on the cover of the GDQ supermodule.

Is that a drow on the back though? Thought it was a demon or something?

My Drow have been irredeemably evil and masters (mistresses?) of manipulation. Since they hold all other races in contempt, they use them as catspaws to do harm to the inhabitants of the surface world. Orcs, goblinoids, and other humanoids are clever but easily led expendable troops to further the Spider Queen's goals. Drow should be evil, but a sinister and insidious evil.

Quote from: jeff37923;1060389My Drow have been irredeemably evil and masters (mistresses?) of manipulation. Since they hold all other races in contempt, they use them as catspaws to do harm to the inhabitants of the surface world. Orcs, goblinoids, and other humanoids are clever but easily led expendable troops to further the Spider Queen's goals. Drow should be evil, but a sinister and insidious evil.

Sounds like they should worship the great Xanatos. I like this take.

A number of their key traits are politically incorrect at best. I just dispense with those traits rather than remove the whole concept.

Black skin? No, they come in many attractive hues. In fact, they are racist against darker skin so black elves are more likely to be adventurers.

Matriarchal? Nothing wrong with that.

Evil? I don't use nine alignments, so they are on the side of overbearing order.

Now they are not offensive. Boy, that was easy!

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1060424Black skin? No, they come in many attractive hues. In fact, they are racist against darker skin so black elves are more likely to be adventurers.

If they were the official Drow the Regressive rpgers would still accuse the Drow and by proxy you for being racist. How dare a imaginary race be racist against another imaginary race. Your Drow are on the side of overbearing order..how dare they try to make the Undark great again. Don't assume the Regressive rpgers are reasonable let alone remotely sane they are not.

Quote from: sureshot;1060425If they were the official Drow the Regressive rpgers would still accuse the Drow and by proxy you for being racist. How dare a imaginary race be racist against another imaginary race. Your Drow are on the side of overbearing order..how dare they try to make the Undark great again. Don't assume the Regressive rpgers are reasonable let alone remotely sane they are not.

My point was to make the drow villainous in a less cartoonish and racist manner. The changes I made were specifically a critique of the culture of Brazil. Although most Brazilians are mixed race, there is still loads of colorism. So I made my Drow physically diverse and unfairly prejudiced towards those of darker skin. This is also meant to be a satire of the canonical depiction of Drow as cursed with black skin because they are evil (which is literally anti-black Mormon propaganda).

I was also inspired by Tim's blog post on the subject.