Video: Pathfinder is Going Full Woke, But They Were Doomed to Brokeness

Today's video is in response to how a lot of people have been asking me about Pathfinder's playtest and its preachy SJW material. But I think it's irrelevant, they're already doomed, and in this video I explain why.

[video=youtube_share;2UDEQCJEWKo]https://youtu.be/2UDEQCJEWKo[/youtube]

So check it out, and share it!

RPGPundit

Currently Smoking: Brigham Anniversary Pipe + McLintock's Syrian Latakia

Pretty good video, I listened to the whole thing. Obviously I agree, though I think Paizo should be converting PF material to 5e and trying to move back to where they were in the 3e years. If they were smart they would be looking to heal the 4e/PF rift and bring unity to the Force - to the D&D market - as a mid-tier publisher again.

On the socjus; I stopped buying Paizo stuff when they went full SJW in the Jessica Price years - she wasn't a high ranking employee but she did an amazing job turning their forums from the 'fun and happy place' Lisa Stevens wanted, into something resembling rpgnet.
But WoTC would have to be a lot more aggressively SJW before I'd stop buying their stuff. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion of course; it's when the company make clear they hate their customers that they should be boycotted. Jeremy Crawford is silly and annoying at times but he doesn't act like a hate-filled loon in the manner of Price. I understand that WoTC people post a lot of anti-right-wing comments on Twitter which I know is offensive to some people, but I guess I'm just a soft fuzzy liberal.

I generally like Pathfinder. I was a big fan of 3rd Edition D&D along with the entire d20 phenomenon and so I just see Pathfinder as one part of that. I like all of the class options and variants, it makes characters customizable for different concepts and campaigns.

In large part Pathfinder succeeded because there were so many people who wanted to stick to 3rd Edition. So Pathfinder's popularity is tied up to the tendency of it's players not to want to change systems. Creating a new edition then, right when a major competitor is threatening, does seem unwise. There are a lot of reason to stay with an edition - with Pathfinder in particular there are mountains of rules associated with it that would be rendered obsolete with a new edition. Something that might turn away traditional players even if the SJW stuff doesn't.

Speaking of which, I'm tired of giving my money to people who hate me and and who want to destroy Western Civilization. At this point, I wouldn't buy any RPG book whose creators have a leftist agenda, I don't care how good the rules, writing, or setting may be.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1055328I generally like Pathfinder. I was a big fan of 3rd Edition D&D along with the entire d20 phenomenon and so I just see Pathfinder as one part of that. I like all of the class options and variants, it makes characters customizable t different concepts and campaigns.

In large part Pathfinder succeeded because there were so many people who wanted to stick to 3rd Edition. So Pathfinder's popularity is tied up to the tendency of it's players not to want to change systems. Creating a new edition then, right when a major competitor is threatening, does seem unwise. There are a lot of reason to stay with an edition - with Pathfinder in particular there are mountains of rules associated with it that would be rendered obsolete with a new edition. Something that might turn away traditional players even if the SJW stuff doesn't.

Speaking of which, I'm tired of giving my money to people who hate me and and who want to destroy Western Civilization. At this point, I wouldn't buy any RPG book whose creators have a leftist agenda, I don't care how good the rules, writing, or setting may be.

Luckily there are plenty of good game designers in the OSR who don't despise you, and you can support!

You are showing an improvement in your oration.

I think your assessment of WOTC LOSING 66% of their customer base was close. They lost more like 3/4ths instead.

From what I saw from hanging around TSR at the time AD&D players were overall ok with 2e because modules were still more or less still backwards compatible. Aside from AC there was not alot that needed converting. As for White Wolf initially they were riding on the popularity of the Ann Rice books and they occupied an as yet mostly untapped niche and pretty much took that over.

Also from what I saw it wasnt Pazio swooping in seeing 4e was going to bomb. It was Pazio A: taking advantage of their well built up 3e fanbase as at the time they were making alot of 3e stuff. What may have tipped their hand was I believe the more stringent lockdown on 3rd party material for 4e. No license for 4e likely helped decide Paizo to keep 3e alive via Pathfinder and this keep their established customer base.

And this may be the real problem for Paizo. They seem to have totally forgotten why they rose to popularity in the first place.

Id say overall WOTC hasnt gone overboard with the SJW-ish stuff. So far its been just two spots over the course of the books published so far. (And at least one article in Dragon+) I do not count the weird comments by Mearls or others in this as it is an individual making statements rather than the company itself. Pazio on the other hand has gotten progressively more blatant and aggressive about their SJW forced inclusiveness.

Will Paizo go tits up with PF2? Hard to say at this point. They will though likely lose a chunk of their customer base. How much depends on how incompatible 2e is.

I don't think some realize how popular 5E is imo. Some here keep saying keep publishing #E. If they were not losing fans to 5E I would agree. Except it seems that 5E has taken enoug of their fans and market share away from them that they felt the need to do something new. Which they needed to do because the 3E then 3.5 engine began showing it's age. It's works and enjoy it yet it has many flaws. By the time Paizo addressed the flaws like high level play slowing game play at the table and linear Fighter Quadratic Wizard 5E was released. Too little and more importantly too late. Matters were not helped that their design of many things feats, classes and archetypes is so haphazard and poorly implemented imo. Either something is too good or the paper is written on is fit to be torn and used as a toilet paper. 5E is not perfect yet they strive to find the proper middle ground and usually listen to the fanbase. Paizo nerfs stuff that they should not and leaves broken rules as is. With the gun rules playtest Paizo proved they refused to listen to the fanbase. They made one ranged weapon way too strong even after the fans told them not to release the gun rules as is. The SJW rhetoric was the icing on the cake. It's as if like too many companies that they don't realize that their competitor learned from their past mistakes and has a better product that actually address and in most cases fixes the falws of theirs.

I have to disagree about 4E. If 4E had been written in a style similar to 5E most of the fanbase would not have cared. 4E was written in a style to cater to the mmo crowd. And no 4E is not nor or plays like a MMO so find some new material. I know people online and outside of it who love 5E yet despise 4E and pretend to ignore that 5E borrows many elements from 4E proving the old saying that their a sucker born every minute.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1055330Luckily there are plenty of good game designers in the OSR who don't despise you, and you can support!

  Unfortunately, in my case (orthodox Catholic), you may not be one of them.

I think what happened to Hasbro customers when D&D 4e came out is now going to happen to Pazio customers when Pathfinder 2.0 comes out. There is always a risk in splitting the gamer base when releasing new editions though.

I think a secondary reason for their PF2 push is the failure of Starfinder. They were banking on riding the zeitgeist of space adventure movies as currently incarnated in the form of Guardians of the Galaxy to become The Next Big Thing. Despite it being the new shiny toy, people were still more interested in playing D&D5e or other lighter games instead. Even if they were already working on PF2, the lackluster reception of Starfinder made them go overtime on it.

Quote from: Ninneveh;1055433I think a secondary reason for their PF2 push is the failure of Starfinder. They were banking on riding the zeitgeist of space adventure movies as currently incarnated in the form of Guardians of the Galaxy to become The Next Big Thing. Despite it being the new shiny toy, people were still more interested in playing D&D5e or other lighter games instead. Even if they were already working on PF2, the lackluster reception of Starfinder made them go overtime on it.

I wasn't aware Starfinder's performance was lackluster. We have another weekend where the SF society has to split into two groups to accomodate the player turnout. Maybe that's just my local scene, but that's my experience.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1055436I wasn't aware Starfinder's performance was lackluster. We have another weekend where the SF society has to split into two groups to accomodate the player turnout. Maybe that's just my local scene, but that's my experience.

There are no games being played in my area at the several local FLGS, its a sea of D&D5E. Probably not the most scientific or objective way of going about it, but judging by online discussion (in particular lack thereof) and the low number of views on youtube of Starfinder actual plays, I cannot see how Paizo is happy with the game's current popularity. They needed a homerun, they got a bunt instead.

Does the dangerhair hipster who is in charge at Paizo still have worms crawling out of her pussy?

Seriously, Pathfinder 1.0 was awesome, but 2.0 is going to suck.

I wish these hipsters would shut the fuck up and go back to Portland. They need to stop ruining my hobby.

I don't play RPG's to be lectured about political bullshit, whether it be left-wing or right-wing.

Hence why I hate the directions taken by Paizo, Onyx Path, and Nu-White Wolf.

I think Starfinder would be considered successful by normal RPG standards, but obviously is no D&D 5e.

Quote from: Omega;1055333You are showing an improvement in your oration.

Definitely smoother. Still needs to make his points in half the time.

Pathfinder 2.0  did not have to suck. In trying to please everyone they released a rpg that I should like in terms of mechanics and it leaves me utterly cold in interest. Their new found wokeness just made me feel no regret that I do.