I like there to be lethality because of the high stakes, but I noticed it makes players not really connect to their PCs the way someone would with a PC they've had for a long time. So I don't like that part... I want to have both. But at the same time I want people to be OK with losing their characters? I guess what I want is a contradiction.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1038279I like there to be lethality because of the high stakes, but I noticed it makes players not really connect to their PCs the way someone would with a PC they've had for a long time. So I don't like that part... I want to have both. But at the same time I want people to be OK with losing their characters? I guess what I want is a contradiction.

Not playing D&D, but... My players asked for a game with character death being non-existent. They really adopt the personality of their characters and become attached to them. Failure is mission failure rather than death. I think also the fun for them is in the role playing and in figuring out how to solve the problems.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1038279I like there to be lethality because of the high stakes, but I noticed it makes players not really connect to their PCs the way someone would with a PC they've had for a long time. So I don't like that part... I want to have both. But at the same time I want people to be OK with losing their characters? I guess what I want is a contradiction.

I'm with you. I like PC death to be a constant threat, but I don't like it when a PC actually dies.  So - I never pull my punches and occasionally PCs die. Though - not very often since most of the people I game with know what they're doing.  (They came from a meatgrinder DM. Not the good kind - the kind that didn't know the rules - like having all drow in a city have readied actions to shoot the PCs the instant they see them. >.<)

Quote from: Tod13;1038280Not playing D&D, but... My players asked for a game with character death being non-existent. They really adopt the personality of their characters and become attached to them. Failure is mission failure rather than death. I think also the fun for them is in the role playing and in figuring out how to solve the problems.

This is how my players are too.

I don't pull punches, but I give them lots of chances to avoid the inevitable. If despite all of that the death happens, then it happens. But then it can be used as a quest hook to revive them if they want.

My first 4E game resulted in a near TPK, and Ive had a couple in 5E and at least a few character deaths in early 3e. Really depended on party composition and if the players are feeling uppity (as in they think they're invincible - and they're not). The higher HP and easier access to healing fooled the PCs into thinking encounters would've been easy and after 3 went down and died the other two decided..maybe Kobolds aren't to be trifled with

I'm a big ol' softie who gives out hugboxes and chocolates. No, really, I sorta am. I also abide by my dice when I consult them, so... Sometimes strange things happen. What would be routine becomes lethal, what should be mortal terror & assured TPK becomes doable.

I also love sprinkling other 'helpful' NPCs about, in case anyone gets attached and wants to carry on that NPCs story after their PC dies. With enough numbers the survival rate is raised, so I'm a big softie. But if you do something profoundly stupid, or the dice hate you that moment, you die.

I am Ferdinand the Bull.

Quote from: Tod13;1038280Not playing D&D, but... My players asked for a game with character death being non-existent. They really adopt the personality of their characters and become attached to them. Failure is mission failure rather than death. I think also the fun for them is in the role playing and in figuring out how to solve the problems.

I don't have a problem with this.

I'll devour everything the PC's love and touch, taking their failures out on the world around them. Failed to stop the Necromancer? Great. Now watch your zombie children devour your wife.

This is how I run superhero games.

If people want to play in a RPG in which they "can't die" that is neither badwrongfun nor any of my business.

I wouldn't DM it though. It's too fucking snowflake pussy for my personal tastes, but YMMV and peace and all that.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1038383If people want to play in a RPG in which they "can't die" that is neither badwrongfun nor any of my business.

I wouldn't DM it though. It's too fucking snowflake pussy for my personal tastes, but YMMV and peace and all that.

It's not 'badwrongfun', but it's 'snowflake pussy?'  There might be a theoretical technical definition to either of those terms, but from my standpoint, they are two slightly different ways of saying, 'inferior.'

I am all in favor of saying that what we are playing is a game, one involving player decisions and a random factor. If I as the GM intervene when it looks like the party will fail, I'm taking away player agency (by taking away their ability to fail). The dice must fall where they may. However, having the fail state be 'character death' rather than 'character failure' is an arbitrary distinction.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1038388It's not 'badwrongfun', but it's 'snowflake pussy?'  There might be a theoretical technical definition to either of those terms, but from my standpoint, they are two slightly different ways of saying, 'inferior.'.

Did I say snowflake pussy? Sorry I should have said "wimpybadloserfest" but let me stress "...for my personal tastes".

In the same way watching X-Factor or Pop Idol is not objectively 'badwrongfun', but is for my personal tastes the death of the UK music industry and a tyranny of mediocrity married with manufactured consumerism that Simon Cowel should be eternally cursed for.

So, yeah. Anybody who wants non-dying characters better find somebody else's table.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;1038287This is how my players are too.

I don't pull punches, but I give them lots of chances to avoid the inevitable. If despite all of that the death happens, then it happens. But then it can be used as a quest hook to revive them if they want.

One of the things that makes it work with my players is that they don't act like the characters are protected or anything.

A snowflake pussy would be chilly and may not be protected by her fur.

I hate when people use "pussy" as a perjorative.  Pussies are warm and friendly and smell nice and purr when you pet them.

As always, difficulty of my games and that of games I've been in lie on spectrum, denoted by five major thresholds: Live Forever, Player Agreed, Dramatic Deaths, Stupidity Kills, Everybody Dies

I tend to lie between the latter two but have quite comfortably aligned to the center more than once.

If it's me GM'ing, it just depends on the system I've chosen and the player group I'm hosting the game for. One of those "soft skills" type situations. I may be playing with grown-ass adults, doesn't mean all of them will respond to PC death (especially theirs) the way I or certain players I know would.

And if I'm hosting games using SOTDL, WH40K, Shadowrun and even NWOD (when I'm not weak-statting NPCs/monsters), I especially make it clear that PCs have a fair to significant chance of perishing and to have another sheet ready to go or be prepared to make one.

Besides, in my games a PC is more likely to die due to another PCs hand (and has several times) than one of my NPCs. Not uncommon for that to be due to a PvP beef, either...

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1038390Did I say snowflake pussy? Sorry I should have said "wimpybadloserfest" but let me stress "...for my personal tastes".

In the same way watching X-Factor or Pop Idol is not objectively 'badwrongfun', but is for my personal tastes the death of the UK music industry and a tyranny of mediocrity married with manufactured consumerism that Simon Cowel should be eternally cursed for.

So, yeah. Anybody who wants non-dying characters better find somebody else's table.

Fuck your feelings: sales is all that matters. FORMULAIC MUSICAL LOUDNESS SUPREMACY FOREVER!

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1038559Fuck your feelings: sales is all that matters. FORMULAIC MUSICAL LOUDNESS SUPREMACY FOREVER!

LOL

This sums it up for me.
[video=youtube;t7wTrIEtiGs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7wTrIEtiGs[/youtube]