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Are CriticalRole Fans Gamers? Watch me Gatekeep!

Started by RPGPundit, March 15, 2018, 03:40:53 AM

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The Scythian

#135
March 20, 2018, 01:00:51 PM
I apologize if this came up before, but about two years into 5e's run, Mearls said that the 5e PHB had sold better than the 3e, 3.5, and 4e PHBs over the course of their entire runs (individually, not combined).  He also said that comparisons with earlier editions weren't possible because the records were spotty.

When WotC passed that milestone, they didn't publicly make a big deal about it, it was a dashed off tweet, so I'm not sure that WotC actually would crow about outselling earlier editions.  (Plus, I think Mearls had indicated there were legal issues with giving out more detailed information).

Haffrung

#136
March 20, 2018, 01:25:46 PM
Quote from: Larsdangly;1030415The idea that watching or listening to any of this stuff makes you a 'gamer' is ludicrous. By some transitive property of human experience, I'm deeply embarrassed for all the poor young dipshits who think this is a position that can be defended. Or even explained.

A lot of lonely young people are desperate to belong to some sort of community. The fact that they have virtually no life experience or engagement with the wider world outside of nerd entertainment means nerd entertainment acts as an ersatz community to them. Combine with an emerging ethos that to deny someone's subjective assertions about reality is a form of violence, and you get the absurdity of audience=participant=community.
 

Ras Algethi

#137
March 20, 2018, 02:08:17 PM
Quote from: Willie the Duck;1030387Correct. Like most of gaming's history, it is mostly a guessing game. All we can really say is that WotC is either conservative in the size of their print runs, or sales have exceeded their expectations (or both).

As an aside, one of my copies of Palladium's Robotech RPG is a 12th edition copy....

Baulderstone

#138
March 20, 2018, 03:18:31 PM
Quote from: Haffrung;1030423Combine with an emerging ethos that to deny someone's subjective assertions about reality is a form of violence...

I'm pretty sure that ethos is as old as religion.

Omega

#139
March 21, 2018, 02:13:18 AM
Quote from: Ulairi;1030211In numbers? Like how many books they've sold? Or just it's the best selling?

Sufficiently well that the core books are in their 6th or 8th printing as of last check.

AsenRG

#140
March 21, 2018, 08:58:20 AM
Quote from: Azraele;1029881Huh. It's almost like these people need constant recognition and reinforcement of their own identity or something.
You don't say;)!

Quote from: Motorskills;1030180Exactly Loz, that's fantastic. Presumably they gushed about their fun time watching a stream to someone that suggested that they go to Breakout, and they had a great time.

Could be they will go away, gush to some other non-gamers, and explain that a good way to get a feel for the hobby is to watch this YouTube channel or listen to this podcast, etc. The cycle continues, and our hobby continues to grow and evolve.

Lucky they didn't meet those two numpties above who maybe would have told them to fuck off, "this Con is for real gamers only".


Pundit says that if you have never rolled a die, you are not a gamer. Well, duh. He enjoys that kind of bullshit trolling.
And then people push back, conflating "gamer" with "member of the hobby" (or somesuch).

But the problem is that it's a stupid fucking argument that does nothing but cause harm. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question above, I'll happily pose it to Waltshumate and Nerzenjager as well:

"Yes [Pundit], you were right, [we] were wrong. Now that you have won, please explain how this victory has improved the hobby?"
Well, if you want to see anything good about the hobby, tell people that by watching, they were "involved with the gaming community", and now they can make the next step and become full-bore gamers.
Or you can just shut up, and invite some new people to play:).

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1030182By continually purifying the hobby until it is limited to those who Play D&D Right, acknowledge the Pundit's greatness, and move on from gaming into real occult practice? ;)
...OK, that's an entertaining theory:D!

Quote from: Azraele;1030196Like... you could reasonably infer number of players from sales data. It's not fucking sorcery.
That's assuming that all sets that get sold are going to be used for a game, and not merely for staying on a shelf.
I wouldn't be confident I can support such an assertion;).

Quote from: Loz;1030288I sincerely hope so. Despite the renaissance in gaming recently, none of us can, or should, be complacent about encouraging new blood. The first question I have when sitting down with players at a convention is 'have you roleplayed before'? If they haven't, it's my responsibility to make the experience as welcoming for them as possible so that they'll want to play again.

I see no point in denigrating any part of our hobby, whether it's passive or active. While someone who's only ever watched Critical Role may not be an active gamer, they're certainly a potential gamer - and there may be many good reasons why they haven't yet taken the plunge. I think it's far better to make encouraging noises and gain some converts; this renaissance won't last forever.
"Great job", is all I can say;)!

Quote from: Baulderstone;1030444I'm pretty sure that ethos is as old as religion.
And both variants of the same ethos did about as much good:D!
What Do You Do In Tekumel? See examples!
"Life is not fair. If the campaign setting is somewhat like life then the setting also is sometimes not fair." - Bren

Steven Mitchell

#141
March 21, 2018, 09:24:26 AM
Quote from: Baulderstone;1030444I'm pretty sure that ethos is as old as religion.

It's old, but hardly ubiquitous.  It's mostly confined to civilized societies far enough along to exhibit decadence.  Don't get me wrong.  The more primitive societies or emerging civilizations will still let you have it over "subjective assertions about reality," but they typically can't be bothered to pretend it is something other than them letting you have it because they don't like what you said.

Robyo

#142
March 21, 2018, 09:36:11 AM
Why would someone who is a non-gamer bother to watch those boring-ass shows anyway? I play D&D and other RPGs, but I find watching other people do it as boring as oblivion.

Ras Algethi

#143
March 21, 2018, 12:18:43 PM
Quote from: Robyo;1030547Why would someone who is a non-gamer bother to watch those boring-ass shows anyway? I play D&D and other RPGs, but I find watching other people do it as boring as oblivion.

It's like other forms of entertainment. Some like, some love it, some could care less and others hate it.

JRT

#144
March 21, 2018, 12:31:48 PM
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1030564It's like other forms of entertainment. Some like, some love it, some could care less and others hate it.

Agreed.  The thing is, regardless of how we feel, others feel differently.  I am amazed, for instance, of the rise of "reaction videos", videos of people reacting to primary content like a new movie trailer.  I just want to see the trailer for myself but there's a whole audience of people who like watching other people watch something else.  

For instance, The "Five Nights at Freddie's" series of video games seem to have gotten popular in part from people's reaction videos to all the jump scares.  Part of the fun was watching others freak out.

I suspect this is a generational thing, and not just a "fad".  It could be that there is a whole market for watching games as a spectator sport.  Stranger things have happened.
Just some background on myself

http://www.clashofechoes.com/jrt-interview/

Gronan of Simmerya

#145
March 21, 2018, 12:43:10 PM
Quote from: JRT;1030566I suspect this is a generational thing, and not just a "fad".  It could be that there is a whole market for watching games as a spectator sport.  Stranger things have happened.

Go reread Fahrenheit 451.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

fearsomepirate

#146
March 21, 2018, 01:12:19 PM
Quote from: JRT;1030566Agreed.  The thing is, regardless of how we feel, others feel differently.  I am amazed, for instance, of the rise of "reaction videos", videos of people reacting to primary content like a new movie trailer.  I just want to see the trailer for myself but there's a whole audience of people who like watching other people watch something else.  

For instance, The "Five Nights at Freddie's" series of video games seem to have gotten popular in part from people's reaction videos to all the jump scares.  Part of the fun was watching others freak out.

I suspect this is a generational thing, and not just a "fad".  It could be that there is a whole market for watching games as a spectator sport.  Stranger things have happened.

Personally, I like watching RLM satirize the videos they watched of people watching trailers.
Every time I think the Forgotten Realms can\'t be a dumber setting, I get proven to be an unimaginative idiot.

Haffrung

#147
March 21, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
Quote from: JRT;1030566Agreed.  The thing is, regardless of how we feel, others feel differently.  I am amazed, for instance, of the rise of "reaction videos", videos of people reacting to primary content like a new movie trailer.  I just want to see the trailer for myself but there's a whole audience of people who like watching other people watch something else.  

For instance, The "Five Nights at Freddie's" series of video games seem to have gotten popular in part from people's reaction videos to all the jump scares.  Part of the fun was watching others freak out.

I suspect this is a generational thing, and not just a "fad".  It could be that there is a whole market for watching games as a spectator sport.  Stranger things have happened.

Definitely a generational thing. My kids spend almost as much time watching Youtube videos of other people playing Minecraft as they do actually playing Minecraft.
 

Krimson

#148
March 21, 2018, 05:31:31 PM
Quote from: Haffrung;1030616Definitely a generational thing. My kids spend almost as much time watching Youtube videos of other people playing Minecraft as they do actually playing Minecraft.

Back in the early 80s, my cousin and I were given rolls of quarters to go to the arcade. I always gave my quarters to my cousin, because he was much better at Donkey Kong than I was, which meant the money lasted much longer. I had more fun watching him play than playing the games myself. :D
"Anyways, I for one never felt like it had a worse \'yiff factor\' than any other system." -- RPGPundit

Baulderstone

#149
March 21, 2018, 09:44:56 PM
Quote from: Haffrung;1030616Definitely a generational thing. My kids spend almost as much time watching Youtube videos of other people playing Minecraft as they do actually playing Minecraft.

Next thing you know there will be gamers who spend almost as much time on RPG forums as they do playing them.
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