One of my goals this year is to get better at using the "Prep Situations, not Plot" approach to GMing. I don't seem to have any trouble doing at least some of the prep this way - e.g., creating motivated antagonists with resources, goals and agendas; creating clocks (these bad things will happen in order if nothing stops them). However once I get to the table I have a lot of trouble turning that into a coherent session.

So I have some inciting incident / hook that lets the player's know what's up (some kind of situation they may want to deal with).

NORMALLY I'd prep a bunch of semi-linear scenes that they have to go through to achieve that goal, then run into problems at the table creatively as things go off the rails (they're supposed to).

There *must* be some published game that gives advice/instruction for how to turn the situation based prep into a bunch of things that happen at the table.

Let's assume that the players have bought into whatever the adventure premise (mine usually do so that's not the issue).

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1017727One of my goals this year is to get better at using the "Prep Situations, not Plot" approach to GMing. I don't seem to have any trouble doing at least some of the prep this way - e.g., creating motivated antagonists with resources, goals and agendas; creating clocks (these bad things will happen in order if nothing stops them). However once I get to the table I have a lot of trouble turning that into a coherent session.

So I have some inciting incident / hook that lets the player's know what's up (some kind of situation they may want to deal with).

NORMALLY I'd prep a bunch of semi-linear scenes that they have to go through to achieve that goal, then run into problems at the table creatively as things go off the rails (they're supposed to).

There *must* be some published game that gives advice/instruction for how to turn the situation based prep into a bunch of things that happen at the table.

Let's assume that the players have bought into whatever the adventure premise (mine usually do so that's not the issue).

I have never written any except on my blog years ago, and I have been the main proponent of situational play for many years. I start things off with a kicker - that is the name Ron Edwards gave to this technique, which has been around since the seventies at least! A kicker is a situation that the PCs MUST respond to, something happening that is NOT directed at the PCs, but is a step towards realizing the goals of one of the organizations. The results of this start defining who the PCs are. The competing organizations should begin to recognize the PCs as PLAYERS, and begin feeling them out. Are they potential allies? Enemies? Distractions? What are their motives? Their resources? Who belongs to them? The next phase of the game is the PCs defining who they are and what they stand for, and thus how the others should treat them. The PCs may or may not know what they are walking into, as they may be from OUTSIDE, but they may also have been lying low and observing. The next phase is the PCs making friends and enemies as they wish - alliances and feuds, subversions, buying out, tricking, and in general attempting to eliminate orgs they feel opposed to.
You should be making changes in the attitudes of the other orgs between sessions based on what happens in the previous sessions. Actions have consequences, for good or ill, and it's in between the sessions that you adjust things. Never assume who will be the PCs' friend or enemy - let them make those decisions. They can react naturally to what you present, and you base the other org's reaction to what they see the PCs do. The other orgs will not change their goals to accommodate the PCs, but they can change the actions they take in pursuing their goals. Do that. As time goes on, the PCs will make their own place in the organizational ecology.
The main point is reacting to actions the PCs initiate, and initiating situations set up by the other orgs that the PCs may or must respond to. Action->Reaction.

Quote from: flyingmice;1017739I start things off with a kicker - that is the name Ron Edwards gave to this technique, which has been around since the seventies at least! A kicker is a situation that the PCs MUST respond to, something happening that is NOT directed at the PCs, but is a step towards realizing the goals of one of the organizations. The results of this start defining who the PCs are. The competing organizations should begin to recognize the PCs as PLAYERS, and begin feeling them out. Are they potential allies? Enemies? Distractions? What are their motives? Their resources? Who belongs to them? The next phase of the game is the PCs defining who they are and what they stand for, and thus how the others should treat them. The PCs may or may not know what they are walking into, as they may be from OUTSIDE, but they may also have been lying low and observing. The next phase is the PCs making friends and enemies as they wish - alliances and feuds, subversions, buying out, tricking, and in general attempting to eliminate orgs they feel opposed to.
You should be making changes in the attitudes of the other orgs between sessions based on what happens in the previous sessions. Actions have consequences, for good or ill, and it's in between the sessions that you adjust things. Never assume who will be the PCs' friend or enemy - let them make those decisions. They can react naturally to what you present, and you base the other org's reaction to what they see the PCs do. The other orgs will not change their goals to accommodate the PCs, but they can change the actions they take in pursuing their goals. Do that. As time goes on, the PCs will make their own place in the organizational ecology.

After 25 years playing RPGs, and talking about them online since the interbutz was invented, why am I only reading this now?
Do you have a link to your blog entries that talk about this kind of structuring?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1017753After 25 years playing RPGs, and talking about them online since the interbutz was invented, why am I only reading this now?
Do you have a link to your blog entries that talk about this kind of structuring?

Ghaa! I'm going back almost a decade here!

https://iflybynight.blogspot.com/2009/09/situational-gming.html - This is the basics

https://iflybynight.blogspot.com/2010/01/building-setting-part-i-in-built.html - ideas for set ups

https://iflybynight.blogspot.com/2010/07/interrupted-plans.html - using these principles for a one off

Hopefully that would get you started! I thought there would be a lot more, but apparently I was posting more in fora back then!

Thank for http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots

That's a good point - I never really thought about having the factions try to reach out and use the players.

Ah! Justin Alexander! He used to come here, I think. Maybe he ran into some of my Situational rants!

He did a nice job covering the basics! All good info! What he calls tools I would mostly call resources.

Simple.  Everybody wants something.  They are going to try to move events in a way that gets them what they want.  When the PCs hit the situation, just figure out the logical step for the NPC to get what they want.

I just have some NPCs in mind at a location whether any PCs ever encounter them or not. I do this with any location. The PCs can decide what to do about them. Any stories will happen on their own during encounters with NPCs.

If players are just there to become princesses and live in pink castles, I can't help them.

"May I siege your Pink Castle with my Bombard of Love?"

Quote from: flyingmice;1017795Ah! Justin Alexander! He used to come here, I think. Maybe he ran into some of my Situational rants!

He did a nice job covering the basics! All good info! What he calls tools I would mostly call resources.

Justin still posts here regularly or semi-regularly.

In Mythic Constantinople, they have a ton of factions throughout the city.  For each one, in addition to other information, there are two main descriptors:
1. What they say they want.
2. What they really want.

Needs and motivations are extremely important, as Clash and Gronan have said.  If you know what everyone wants, it becomes much easier to see where conflicts are going to arise and how that faction views the PCs.

Quote from: PencilBoy99;1017727One of my goals this year is to get better at using the "Prep Situations, not Plot" approach to GMing. I don't seem to have any trouble doing at least some of the prep this way - e.g., creating motivated antagonists with resources, goals and agendas; creating clocks (these bad things will happen in order if nothing stops them). However once I get to the table I have a lot of trouble turning that into a coherent session.

So I have some inciting incident / hook that lets the player's know what's up (some kind of situation they may want to deal with).

NORMALLY I'd prep a bunch of semi-linear scenes that they have to go through to achieve that goal, then run into problems at the table creatively as things go off the rails (they're supposed to).

There *must* be some published game that gives advice/instruction for how to turn the situation based prep into a bunch of things that happen at the table.

Let's assume that the players have bought into whatever the adventure premise (mine usually do so that's not the issue).

Well this thread looks familiar;-)

You've got  a critical thing wrong about how to run an RPG: you're  presupposing an outcome. "I would make linear scenes, they would go through them to the conclusion I have already envisioned" describes a plot.

If you want to get good at situations, you need to eschew this kind of thinking. Take the advice of reading through Justin Alexander's brilliant writing on the subject, in case that hadn't  been made sufficiently clear. What you need to make are antagonists with goals and methods for achieving them at cross-purpose to the heroes (or, I should say "protagonists", I've never had a group that wasn't slightly murder-hobo-y)

If your players like the game to come to them, I suggest giving it teeth. Zack S. is working on a game that demonstrates how to prep elements of an ongoing scheme by the antagonists that pursues players who don't actively attempt to thwart it. Come to think of it, he's done that at least twice that I recall...

My How to Make a Fantasy Sandbox series goes into detail about this.

Note that when I talk about Plot is I am using in the sense of "a plan made in secret" not "the main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work"

Quote from: estar;1017836My How to Make a Fantasy Sandbox series goes into detail about this.

Note that when I talk about Plot is I am using in the sense of "a plan made in secret" not "the main events of a play, novel, movie, or similar work"

Dammit estar, now I've got more reading to do!!!