Oh, and back on topic, now that I've had it a while, this is a great DM resource, especially since I have come to hate having a computer at the table. "What's this random farmer's name, anyway?" NO LONGER AM I CURSED TO CALL EVERY SINGLE RANDOM PERSON "STEVE." THANK YOU WIZARDS OF THE COAST. But seriously, there are a lot fewer Steves in my game world now.

Like: Name Tables, Magic Item tables
Love: New Sorcerer subclasses, wandering monster tables,
Meh: New encounter guidelines. Guys, just admit there's no formula to map X monsters of CR N onto Y players of level M.
Dislike: New fighter subclasses. They're not broken, they just feel all wrong, with core abilities keyed to long rests. I've spent 3 years explaining to new players that the core Fighter's concept is he doesn't run out of gas, and now we have all these new archetypes whose core concept is that they run out of gas.
Don't care: Other player subclasses, because I don't really play 5e. I just run it.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1016931Firebolt: 1d10 per tier.
Eldritch Blast (typical Sorlock): 1d10+1d6+CHA+knockback per tier.

Like I said, the problem isn't with Warlocks per se, it's the way EB scales when you MC, making 2 levels in Warlock far too powerful compared to other MC options, and almost a must-have for sorcerers.

Um... where is the +1d6 coming from? Nothing the Sorcerer Warlock or Wizard grants adds a d6 that I can find at a glance?

Quote from: Omega;1016945Um... where is the +1d6 coming from? Nothing the Sorcerer Warlock or Wizard grants adds a d6 that I can find at a glance?

  I think the assumption is that you're typically layering a Hex on a target in each encounter.

IME sorlocks fling Hex around with reckless abandon compared to warlocks. An 8th-level warlock has 2 4th-level slots that recharge on a short rest, so if he switches from Hex to a different Concentration spell, like Darkness, or just has his concentration broken, he probably can't switch back during that fight. A Sor 6/War 2 has 2 1st-level slots that recharge on a short rest, 4 1st-level slots, 3 2nd-level slots, and 3 3rd-level slots, not to mention 6 sorcery points to burn on Fireball/Eldritch Blast combos using Quickened Spell. So yeah, Hex is nearly always on, and then he just barfs out damage.

It actually gets pretty stupid, pretty qucikly.

Got it yesterday.

First impressions:
1.Those are really really nice Encounter Tables! I love how they do each terrain type by Tier, and how they are more than just monsters. They are so comprehensive one could use them for keying hexes in a hex crawl campaign.
2.The Common magic items are very nice as trinkets for PCs to find in the marketplace or in monster lairs, with no worries about unbalancing the game. I reckon I'll make an effort to throw some into my game.
3. The Zealot Barbarian is completely unkillable from level 14, as long as he has some healing potions (1 per 10 rounds) so that he can be at 1+hp before each Rage ends/starts a new Rage. Exception would be a few insta-kill spells that include "You die" in their description, eg Finger of Death and Disintegrate. I don't like that at all and would need to house rule it, I reckon requiring a CON save or die whenever at 0 hp and taking damage (ie a further Death Save would be required) following the first 3 failed death saves.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1016935...
Meh: New encounter guidelines. Guys, just admit there's no formula to map X monsters of CR N onto Y players of level M.

Yea I thought it was the weakest of the UA playtests and was surprised to see it made it into the book.

I would have prefered they had about 2 pages fewer of names, cut out the encounter building stuff, and used the pages for more examples of complex traps. Or better yet, have some tables for building complex traps.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1016954IME sorlocks fling Hex around with reckless abandon compared to warlocks. An 8th-level warlock has 2 4th-level slots that recharge on a short rest, so if he switches from Hex to a different Concentration spell, like Darkness, or just has his concentration broken, he probably can't switch back during that fight. A Sor 6/War 2 has 2 1st-level slots that recharge on a short rest, 4 1st-level slots, 3 2nd-level slots, and 3 3rd-level slots, not to mention 6 sorcery points to burn on Fireball/Eldritch Blast combos using Quickened Spell. So yeah, Hex is nearly always on, and then he just barfs out damage.

It actually gets pretty stupid, pretty qucikly.

That is way too reliant on short rests which are never ever a guarantee to get.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1016954IME sorlocks fling Hex around with reckless abandon compared to warlocks. An 8th-level warlock has 2 4th-level slots that recharge on a short rest, so if he switches from Hex to a different Concentration spell, like Darkness, or just has his concentration broken, he probably can't switch back during that fight. A Sor 6/War 2 has 2 1st-level slots that recharge on a short rest, 4 1st-level slots, 3 2nd-level slots, and 3 3rd-level slots, not to mention 6 sorcery points to burn on Fireball/Eldritch Blast combos using Quickened Spell. So yeah, Hex is nearly always on, and then he just barfs out damage.

It actually gets pretty stupid, pretty qucikly.

If you're a Sorcerer, that's where you get your power, period.  No Sorcerer crossed with Warlock or whatever.  Same thing with Warlock.

The absolute worst thing WotC did was enable and encourage an idiotic level of build culture with their style of multiclassing.

Quote from: Omega;1016974That is way too reliant on short rests which are never ever a guarantee to get.

Sorlocks can use Sorcerer slots to cast Hex if they run out of Warlock slots. And unlike normal sorcerers, they're less likely to use up their low-level slots, since an unmodified EB is more powerful than L1 spells after 5th level (by contrast, normal cantrips don't catch up with L1 spells until 11th level, and don't surpass them until 17th level). So in practice, they're never short of slots to Hex with.

I'm not theorycrafting. This is how I've observed these people play.

Quote from: CRKrueger;1017008If you're a Sorcerer, that's where you get your power, period.  No Sorcerer crossed with Warlock or whatever.  Same thing with Warlock.

Quickened Fireball with a normal sorcerer is Fireball + regular boring cantrip. So you blast a crowd of mooks with a fireball for 8d6, then follow up on the big guy with another 2d10. That fucking Sorlock is sustaining Hex on the big guy, of course, so he blasts the crowd with a fireball for 8d6, then blasts the big guy for 2d10+2d6+8 and pushes him 20 ft off a cliff.

QuoteThe absolute worst thing WotC did was enable and encourage an idiotic level of build culture with their style of multiclassing.

It really is just this one combination in 5e, and it's because of how they designed EB. They mostly did a very good job of ensuring the tradeoffs in multiclassing meant it was not a straight power upgrade, but they dropped the ball with the Warlock. I think it is the only thing I have felt the need to house-rule due to being OP.

This discussion certainly isn't prompting me to reconsider my not using the Multiclass optional rules!

Re Xanathar's; the Shared Campaigns appendix is really weird and disappointing, considering that my own campaign is moving that way I was looking for good hints & tips. Instead I get copy/paste of Adventurer's League rules: PCs level up every 4 or 8 hours (though at least this requires scenario completion - doing a 4 hour scenario in 3 hrs counts for 4) and the amazing reward rules - no treasure in game, you get treasure and magic item treasure points by time played. Which would work ok in encounter-centric 4e, but strips out a major reason for playing 5e and traditional D&D - the joy of exploring and finding stuff. I feel this is an area where working out what the early RPG pioneers like Gygax & Arneson did, and following their lead, works much better.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1016875What's wrong with Fire Bolt?  Has the same range at 1st level and doesn't require a Wizard to put points into Charisma for it to be decent at casting at it.  A Sorcerer is built on Charisma, so that's a hit against that class, one among many I say.

I don't think anyone is suggesting having wizards pick up eldritch blast. It is the ease that a bard, paladin, or sorcerer (who are already wanting to maximize their charisma) can pick up a solid at-will combat option by delaying their progression by 2 levels (mind you, 2 levels is not nothing, but relatively easy compared to something like multiclassing into fighter for multiple weapon attacks).

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1017110I don't think anyone is suggesting having wizards pick up eldritch blast. It is the ease that a bard, paladin, or sorcerer (who are already wanting to maximize their charisma) can pick up a solid at-will combat option by delaying their progression by 2 levels (mind you, 2 levels is not nothing, but relatively easy compared to something like multiclassing into fighter for multiple weapon attacks).

You arent delaying your progression 2 though. You are cutting off your primary class by 2 levels and docking the character a stat bonus or feat.

So a person whose magic was granted by his innate bloodline (Sorceror) can't make a pact with a demon (Warlock) and thus use both form of magic. How is permitted that is any less arbitrary than not permitting it?

The problem isn't the build culture the problem is the putting the rules before setting even one as generic as D&D style fantasy. Especially when it comes magic which is completely arbitrary as to how it works.

I see a lot of bitching about how X rule work with Y rule and how silly broken it is. Fuck doesn't anybody take responsibility for ensuring that the rules they use fit the setting they want?

Gronan is talking about how the Staff of Wizardry was THE one and only treasure on the bottom level of Greyhawk. I had them for sale as a rare highly priced luxury item at the Sorceror's Supply House in the City State of the Invincible Overlord. Neither approach is more correct than the other, it just I learned how to make magic item shop work in my setting long ago. I use specific RPGs or alter other RPGs so magic item shops continue to work the same regardless of the system I use.

The same with builds. When I ran GURPS, and D&D 3.5 players tried to build broken characters all the time. Even now with the OD&D based rules I use players try to bust my campaign with buying and commissioning magic items.  In the end it doesn't matter. Either they hit hard coded limits (like +3 being the max bonus for anything). Or they find out they move on to a higher level playing field.

If it is a wealth of items that causing the boost then they are at a disadvantage because they won't have the skill/level to compete with the NPCs who do have the item AND skill. If it a broken build causing the the build. Then it is always so narrowly focused that they will get their ass handed to them once somebody gets the drop on them or defines the "battlefield" instead of the player.

And if they are smart to realize how narrowly focused they are, then they start working to create opportunities. Which puts them back in the same boat as the not broken build as far as the campaign unfolds. Most of the time the broken builds are combat oriented. And I warn players, you can kill everything in the room but it not going to solve the problem.

Quote from: Omega;1017121You arent delaying your progression 2 though. You are cutting off your primary class by 2 levels and docking the character a stat bonus or feat.

If you're looking at level 20 I suppose.