Quote from: Voros;1011017Apparently WoTC is forcing people to pay for optional rules books these days.

Where the hell did this come from?

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1011042Where the hell did this come from?

Here, obviously.

QuoteOriginally Posted by fearsomepirate
IME player options are largely a giant rip-off. You pay $50 for a book with maybe two or three things in it you'll use over the course of a full year.

Quote from: Voros;1011017Apparently WoTC is forcing people to pay for optional rules books these days.

I know what you mean, they nearly murdered me when I told them I considered all role-playing game products to be optional and that I own none of their products. Luckily they were so boggled by the concept I was able to escape with only  minor injuries.

Quote from: S'mon;1011041No, you are.

Nice try there. Keep struggling.

Quote from: Omega;1011077Nice try there. Keep struggling.

Poopy-head.

Quote from: Omega;1010978Except that that applies to the PHB and MM too. Most players only use one or two classes, or a GM uses a few select monsters and possibly not much else depending on the campaign.

Most players will look up rules more than a couple times. Casters, of course, will use the book a lot. I get a lot of use out of the monster manual...I don't know what DMs are using only 4 or 5 monsters over the course of a 15+ level campaign.

No one is forced to buy anything though. No gun is aimed at my head or anyone else. The trick is to wait and see if it's worth buying. Rushing out to buy it because one is impatient is on you not on Wotc or any other rpg company. Having been burned by the quality of some Paizo releases in the past. I wait and read the reviews then buy the book. Gamers need to stop blaming companies for their poor spending habits.

Quote from: sureshot;1011157No one is forced to buy anything though. No gun is aimed at my head or anyone else. The trick is to wait and see if it's worth buying. Rushing out to buy it because one is impatient is on you not on Wotc or any other rpg company. Having been burned by the quality of some Paizo releases in the past. I wait and read the reviews then buy the book. Gamers need to stop blaming companies for their poor spending habits.

I don't blame anyone for my spending habits. I can easily afford to drop $50 on a book that's a gamble just as I can on a dinner at an untried restaurant because neither has any real lasting effect on my finances. If money gets short, then I can certainly tighten up, but $50 really isn't a lot of money for me these days.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1011042Where the hell did this come from?

The thread in a nutshell:

"Let's all talk about this splatbook!"

FearsomePirate: "splatbooks are a crock!"

Voros: "no one's forcing you to buy it."


Now, admittedly, 'no one's forcing it on you' isn't really a good rejoinder to 'this isn't good' since, well, this is basically a review thread. OTOH, 'this optional supplement can feel superfluous' is kind of a weird critique, since, it kinda has to be or it wouldn't be optional. Great way to spin our wheels I guess without actually reviewing the book in question.

I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive!

New material is always going to be something of mixed quality imo. The thing is one should wait and read the reviews of a product. I'm not saying go by what is written only in reviews of course. Rushing out to buy a product well it's a risk. I stopped buying as much as I used to from Paizo because lately 1/4 of the material in the new books is reprints with a side order of nerfing cool options. Usually because of PFS. Sometimes it's implied by some that they just have to buy a new product. Then instead of blaming themselves it's either the companies fault, the players "forcing" them to buy itor a little from column A and a little from column B. Gamers complain about bloat in Pathfinder and other rpgs yet the same gamers keeping buying the books.

You guys are really reaching to make "players' options are really [bleepity] long term bang for your buck" an issue.

I can see fearsomepirate's argument. What seems like it will explode with replay value often ends up shelved because you're not running or playing enough games to dig deep into the material. I still get them, but on retrospect I also noticed the same small rate of return.

Thus this observation is a high crime and must be pilloried! Bring it, bitches! YOLO!

For the curious here is what they retreaded from past books.
Sword Coast
Monk path Way of the Sun Soul
Rogue paths Mastermind and Swashbuckler
Sorcerer path Storm Sorcerer
Princes of the Apocalypse
Most of the spells.

Everything else seems to be from the playtest stuff or new.
So alot less retread than I first thought. And having the spells no longer just in a module is probably a boon to some.

Quote from: Omega;1010097eh, its just 18 pages of names out of a 180+ page book.

Heres a quick rundown.
53 pages of new class stuff. New paths, new detailing options, new chargen rules for druids and more.
12 pages of lifepath sort of character background.
3 pages of Racial feats. (which arent 3e feats.)
11 pages of DM optonal rules for things like sleep, tool use and ways to visualize effects.
6 pages for a new encounter building system.
21 pages of wilderness encounter tables. FINALLY!
10 pages on traps and trap building.
10 pages on downtime activities.
6 pages of common magic items.
6 pages of magic items sorted by rarity FINALLY!
22 pages of new spells.
3 pages of shared campaign rules.
18 pages of names.

Ugh. 4th largest section of the entire book. What an incredible waste of valuable space!

What sort of names are on those 18 pages? Seems like it would be very difficult to make them interesting as well as useful. They would have to be run of the mill, like Carlos the Dwarf, and thus nothing anyone needs on a list; or else fanciful, like Everglade Springsong Elfinpantz, and thus useless to anyone who doesn't swing that way; or finally just made-up sound combinations, like Kurmbor the Orc, which I have a hard time seeing anyone clamoring for help with.  Got some examples? 18 pages is a lot of names.