Ive added Alchemy/Apothecary to my possible skills in my fantasy system. My intention was to generate a list of typically created concoctions for the character to choose from during creation and then be able to pursue others when finding books, scrolls or teachers. In no way was the list supposed to represent the entirety of salves, balms, ointments and potions known in the world but give them, and me, something of a base to add to when needed.

Trouble is trying to reduce the limitless possibilities into a working list is proving difficult. I have well over a hundred and still feel as if Im barely scratching the surface.

As a note in my game Apothecary items are more mundane and can be explained as the effects of natural, albeit incredible, herbs and such. Alchemy on the other hand involves imbuing magic into the mix for more spectacular and supernatural effects.

In a typical game potions and such would only appear as treasure or as wares for the characters to buy and its easy enough for the GM to simply make up what is there but actually making a list before hand is a little daunting.

Heres a potion that helps you resist fire. Is it 100% or just a damage reducer? What about arcane fire, dragon fire and the like? Should it increase in potency with the Alchemist's ability? Can he make a Greater Fire Resistance potion? How long should something like that last? Should there be side effects? How much would it cost.. what about just the materials if the alchemist does the work himself? Would it work against desert heat exhaustion too? What about hot water or lava?

AGGHGGG!!!!

Such things can be worked out at the moment I know but again, when making a list (already over a hundred and growing) it becomes this nasty annoying monster of uncertainty!

Suggestions?

Should there even be a list? Make it up as you go and as the character needs? Come up with a system for custom potion building instead?

Many games do a lot of lists, but another viable alternative might be to create a list of ingredients which create effects which can be combined and which get more useful as the player character gets more skill.  You can combine ingredients to do things, some of which may be standard, others new and surprising.  You can even add specific historical items.  So, for example, suppose you decide:

"Valerian root" is a sedative that helps sleeping.  We can predict it works better in the potions of more experienced magic users/alchemists.  This is a historic remedy
"Dinglefroth's Concretion" is a stone that helps improve spells of the fire school.  We can predict that it improves fire spells, be they cast flame or light off fire ball.  THis I totally made up.

Now, if the player character mixes the valerian and the concretion in a potion, could it be that the sleeping potion works, but causes horrible dreams and nightmares?  Here is scope for player and GM to work together to build the potion list, writing it down each time.

Heh, have fun systematizing that. I say enjoy this is one of the places where exception-based design should be relished. Who cares about consistency so much, especially since it's a magical one-off. Being disposable one-shots, their power level is mitigated, so long as you don't make it too easy to recreate.

Here's the pastry shop rule for bog standards: a fruity thingie, a nutty thingie, a chocolatey thingie, a plain thingie, and sometimes a chef's delight thingie. That's four, sometimes five, thingies to please just about everyone. Now go translate that into what you think most people would want from an Alchemist!

Let's see... healing, hiding, talking, fighting, ... and a chef special! See? Easy once simplified.

Instead of trying to deliniate every possible potion and its effects, you'll go mad... try setting up an effects based of rules for potion creation. How long does the effect last? Is it take internally or externally? Does it effect one of teh four elements? etc. The magic system for Castle Falkenstein is one such example.

Which herb does what can be entirely non-mechanical dressing. Or if you prefer dive into herbology, alchemy, etc as practiced historically and in folklore.

you wouldn't have to systematize it all at once but could build it as the players proceeded.  One would simply make the basic concoctions with specific 'non-mechanical' dressings, and then as player characters advanced, the materials and effects could be built upon.  The results go in the much talked about but rarely actually kept 'spell book' which now becomes slightly more than a list.  It can be as simple or complex a sstem as you like.

Don't even make a list. Let the player tell you what his character is attempting and then respond with what he needs to do and write it down for next time.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1006195Suggestions?

As you say, a list is only an itemization of exemplars. It's great to have since it provides ideas for the players and GM, gives the GM something to roll a D100 on to generate a random potion, and can be turned into a price list. But what you need is a system for answering those other questions. BoL and Honor+Intrigue have a system for creating potions for alchemists and apothecaries. Potions are grouped into ranks of difficulty some potions are easy (mostly stuff that actual classical, medieval, renaissance, or early modern people could create like mild acids or gunpowder) while other potions (size increasing, invulnerability, universal solvents, or a philosopher's stone) are a higher rank. Craft points are required (number determined by career rank and by effort and time spent) and a roll must be made for success (difficulty based on rank of alchemist and intelligence of alchemist vs. rank of the potion).

Find a copy of The Compleat Alchemist by Bard Games.

An oldy, but a goody.

There are any number of game systems that have fixed effects for well-known and defined potions: a dose of Water of Coral gives +5 to the drinker's HT for purposes of recovering from wounds and disease, as well as resisting disease, for the next five days.  And so on.

In your shoes, I'd have a fixed number of potions an Alchemist can make (aside from being able to do up standard chemical mixtures like acids, bases, distillants and the like).  Improve the skill, he can learn more things.  The effects above and beyond book depend on the margin of his success roll.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1006195Should there even be a list? Make it up as you go and as the character needs? Come up with a system for custom potion building instead?

I created a list of Potions (magical and pretty D&D standard), and Elixirs (non-magical and my own work inspired by Harn's Herblore article)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11RA5NT_C5o4OYB-SV6Z18xIHxlSmSyj1/view?usp=sharing

Quote from: estar;1006460I created a list of Potions (magical and pretty D&D standard), and Elixirs (non-magical and my own work inspired by Harn's Herblore article)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11RA5NT_C5o4OYB-SV6Z18xIHxlSmSyj1/view?usp=sharing

I've magical and non-magical ones.   I generally base my potions on alteration magic (generally helpful, includes heal, potions that raise a stat, or transform one) and enchantment (which you usually want the target to drink)

Dark Albions has rules for Apothecaries and Alchemists.

In Lion & Dragon these are included, plus magical Alchemy (including things like the rules for the Elixir of Life).  I'm currently working on expanded rules on Astrology that will eventually be part of a "RPGPundit Presents" issue, that will cover the making of Astrological Potions, which distill the power of planetary forces.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1006195Such things can be worked out at the moment I know but again, when making a list (already over a hundred and growing) it becomes this nasty annoying monster of uncertainty!

Suggestions?

Should there even be a list? Make it up as you go and as the character needs? Come up with a system for custom potion building instead?

The way I do it is to concentrate on groups of potions.

So, rather than having a potion of Spider Venom Antidote and another of Snake Venom Antidote, I have a group of Antidotes. Similarly, I have potions of [Something] Immunity, [Disease/Effect] Curing, [Power] Giving and so on. Makes things a lot easier and quicker.