If I'm running a game in say, the Forgotten Realms, which has a Japanese/Chinese analog, I'm kinda OK with the Monk.  As long as the PCs are from, or trained by, people who come from Kara-Tur.  But in most other settings, that don't have anything remotely like that, I can't stand the class.

Quote from: Krimson;1001139Monks were actually common in my old campaign. This was likely due to the fact that three of us were also in the same Kung Fu class.

That actually makes it extra awesome and gonzo.

I dont mind monks at all. Maybe some hermit guy taught himself, maybe he belongs to some unique school up in the isolated mountains and he's on a wanderer's journey. With elves, dwarves, dragons, beholders, talking swords, etc - stretching to accomodate monks isnt a big deal for me. Then again I also dont mind mixing English medieval with roman ancients, vikings and blackpowder weapons. :DD

Quote from: Dumarest;1001182That actually makes it extra awesome and gonzo.

Or extra-dorky. You'd need a group photo to know. Because you're thinking it probably looks something like this:



But it might look more like this:

Quote from: RPGPundit;1003194Or extra-dorky. You'd need a group photo to know. Because you're thinking it probably looks something like this:

l

But it might look more like this:

If you think the top photo is the cool one,  you're not as gonzo as you imagine.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1001164If I'm running a game in say, the Forgotten Realms, which has a Japanese/Chinese analog, I'm kinda OK with the Monk.  As long as the PCs are from, or trained by, people who come from Kara-Tur.  But in most other settings, that don't have anything remotely like that, I can't stand the class.

What about a character who studies their teaching at a library such as Candle Keep or at a place of worship like the Monastery of the Yellow Rose? Not exactly Kara-Tur decent but has philosophies and principals of a similar nature? I ask because there was a character in the R.A. Salvatore novels The Cleric Quintet who studied all the various monk forms from scrolls at the Edificant Library and thought that hook was pretty cool.

I kind of wonder why anyone thinks a fantasy world with elves and hobbits should only have Asian-influenced martial arts in their fake Asia analogue...does it strain your suspension of disbelief more than the idea that anyone capable of creating magic potions would sell them at the corner magic shop right next to the soda jerk?

Its the accents.  

They go from "Ah louve ya, Ahlwahys Halv."  (either brave heart of baseket ball) to
"Boords don hit back." Enter the dragon.  It's hard.

Quote from: Dumarest;1003326I kind of wonder why anyone thinks a fantasy world with elves and hobbits should only have Asian-influenced martial arts in their fake Asia analogue...does it strain your suspension of disbelief more than the idea that anyone capable of creating magic potions would sell them at the corner magic shop right next to the soda jerk?

I don't see a problem with Martial Artists.

I just prefer that they have "Fighter" written on their character sheet.

Quote from: TJS;1003344I don't see a problem with Martial Artists.

I just prefer that they have "Fighter" written on their character sheet.

Nah, "Fighting Man" is where it's at.

Quote from: Batman;1003303What about a character who studies their teaching at a library such as Candle Keep or at a place of worship like the Monastery of the Yellow Rose? Not exactly Kara-Tur decent but has philosophies and principals of a similar nature? I ask because there was a character in the R.A. Salvatore novels The Cleric Quintet who studied all the various monk forms from scrolls at the Edificant Library and thought that hook was pretty cool.

Nope.  Simply because the Western Analogue that is the Sword Coast doesn't have the same self-enlightenment self-improvement philosophy that would promote the idea that ones body is stronger than magic or steel.  Kara-Tur and it's Far East analogues do.

Quote from: TJS;1003344I don't see a problem with Martial Artists.

I just prefer that they have "Fighter" written on their character sheet.

Personally, me too.  If you REALLY want to go Gonzo with Martial Arts, make the Fighter/Fighting Man your core for it.

Quote from: Dumarest;1003326I kind of wonder why anyone thinks a fantasy world with elves and hobbits should only have Asian-influenced martial arts in their fake Asia analogue...does it strain your suspension of disbelief more than the idea that anyone capable of creating magic potions would sell them at the corner magic shop right next to the soda jerk?

Which one strains my suspension of disbelief more isn't really relevant since the answer for both is "way too much."

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and nominate the ranger -- not because an agile and moderately-armored wilderness warrior feels out of place in the game, but because D&D rangers always, and to me inexplicably, gain access to druid spells and class abilities. IMO one of the great innovations in Pathfinder was the "Skirmisher" archetype, which allowed you to shitcan the makes-no-goddamn-sense spellcasting abilities in favor of various "hunter tricks" that are much more in keeping with the archetypical role the ranger class is supposed to occupy.

Quote from: Dumarest;1003326I kind of wonder why anyone thinks a fantasy world with elves and hobbits should only have Asian-influenced martial arts in their fake Asia analogue...does it strain your suspension of disbelief more than the idea that anyone capable of creating magic potions would sell them at the corner magic shop right next to the soda jerk?

I think the issue is more when the setting doesn't have an Asian analogue. I loved OA but never cared for the monk in other settings.

Quote from: Voros;1003590I think the issue is more when the setting doesn't have an Asian analogue. I loved OA but never cared for the monk in other settings.

Bingo!

The other issue I have with a lot of the 'sub' classes is how limited they are.

For example the Barbarian, now admittedly it's not just the Vikings that have those types of berserkers, the Jaguar Warriors of... I forget, have the same thing concept, but the issue is that it's still a warrior from an uncivilized area with anger management issues.  It's a very narrow archetype, whereas the Fighter (Or fighting man) can be many things, Knight, Mercenary, Master Archer, Martial Artist, Gladiator, and many other concepts with the same theme.  In D&D Land, even Wizards have AT LEAST 9 options, one dedicated to a particular school of 'Magic'.  Clerics have a myriad of faiths which can help inform the type of combat style.  And the Rogue?  Nearly limitless in options.

Rangers are also another issue, Paladin can be somewhat wider, but if it's constrained by Alignment (As in Lawful Good only.)

But the Monk is the most limited, in my book.  It's all based on magical Shaolin Monk Philosophy.