It's hard to run D&D with your hands tied. Rolling dice and making notes with your toes isn't easy.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;10000181) the cleric has always been a hp battery that no one wants to play (excepting if they were overcompensated for this burden), 2) as the core classes grew from 3 to 11, the assumption that someone in the group would be playing a cleric stopped being reasonable (or at least effectively requiring it seemed like it would turn off players),

Funny. I've been playing the game since '77 and my clerics are never HP batteries or healbots. They are undead smiting warriors of the faith a la Van Helsing or Soloman Kane. There is much more to Clerics than just "Cure X Wounds" spells.  Just look at all the other fun and useful toys in teh Cleric's spell kit, and armour and weapons too....

Quote from: DavetheLost;1000557Funny. I've been playing the game since '77 and my clerics are never HP batteries or healbots. They are undead smiting warriors of the faith a la Van Helsing or Soloman Kane. There is much more to Clerics than just "Cure X Wounds" spells.  Just look at all the other fun and useful toys in teh Cleric's spell kit, and armour and weapons too....

You're playing wrong ! It's all about "niche protection" now.

Why are you trying to use a screwdriver to carve steak? It just isn't the right tool for the job. D&D, and 5 in particular from what I have heard of the system, just isn't set up to model combat the way you want.  Look to a different game or be willing to perform major surgery on the combat and healing rules.

Quote from: K Peterson;1000544His hands are apparently tied, and he's forced to run D&D 5e.

Being forced to run games I don't like is why I now have a no loaded firearms at the gaming table rule.

There is also this to consider:  If the players want to play D&D 5E, then if you change it enough, you aren't giving them what they want.  In fact, there may be somewhere in the middle where you aren't happy and they aren't either.  So that brings up the question of what they expect to get by playing 5E?

Quote from: Dumarest;1000563You're playing wrong ! It's all about "niche protection" now.

You just gave me a new advantage to running a game for kids, I can teach the the One True Way!

Quote from: DavetheLost;1000557Funny. I've been playing the game since '77 and my clerics are never HP batteries or healbots. They are undead smiting warriors of the faith a la Van Helsing or Soloman Kane. There is much more to Clerics than just "Cure X Wounds" spells.  Just look at all the other fun and useful toys in teh Cleric's spell kit, and armour and weapons too....

Then do you disagree with my opinion that that is why they made natural healing so much quicker in 5e?

Quote from: rgrove0172;999950Well honestly that sounds fine until the "killing blow part". In 5th ed even the attack that drives you below 0 HP is pretty easily recovered from. Stabilize, heal at least 1 HP then wait till your next long rest - POOF the nasty killing blow injury is gone just as easy as the little cuts and bruises.

I suppose for heroes even the one that takes you out "looked worse than it was" and just put you down for a bit. The broke ribs, ruptures spleen and punctured lung you though you had last night was just a bit of roughing up for a tough guy like you!" Laugh

QuoteDescribing the Effects of Damage
Dungeon Masters describe hit point loss in different ways.
When your current hit point total is half or more of your hit
point maximum, you typically show no signs of injury. When
you drop below half your hit point maximum, you show signs
of wear, such as cuts and bruises. An attack that reduces you
to 0 hit points strikes you directly, leaving a bleeding injury or
other trauma, or it simply knocks you unconscious.

The disconnect is the removal of the 0HP penalties AD&D and I believe 2e had. Which rendered a PC useless till they recovered. In 5e its easier to think of the combatant revived with just a few HP as while still dangerous on the attack, they are winded, disoriented, whatever and wide open to be taken down again depending on how much they were revived by. And it usually tales magic to get them back on their feet. Without aid a stabalized character will be down 1-4 hours.

If its any consolation. In BX D&D there was no such thing. 0 HP was DEATH.

Quote from: tenbones;1000052Here is an interesting experiment that would require a lot of GM trust. It's something I've thought about but never have done:

What if the players had no idea how many HP they had? The GM kept those numbers and merely narrated combat effects based on the ever-dwindling values only the GM knew about? Would take a little extra work but I bet I could pull this off if I ran D&D.

Thoughts?

If you're not good at improvisation you could create a table based on the percentage of health a character reaches with canned descriptions that you could tailor to the situation.

Thats nothing new. Players not knowing their characters HP goes way back and was even discussed as a playstyle for D&D in Dragon. Ive seen it at conventions too now and then.

As noted in an older thread here. It works nicely. But it saddles the DM with more bookkeeping. I've done it myself so I know from experience.

"You hit and do 5 points of damage. He looks seriously injured now."

Quote from: RPGPundit;1000981"You hit and do 5 points of damage. He looks seriously injured now."

I thought you were into immersion. Referring to points of damage is the opposite of immersion.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1000981"You hit and do 5 points of damage. He looks seriously injured now."

Doesn't work, causes issues later when the serious injury vanishes even without magical aid. Kinda the point of v the whole thread. Not to mention not very interesting at the table.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1001057Doesn't work, causes issues later when the serious injury vanishes even without magical aid. Kinda the point of v the whole thread. Not to mention not very interesting at the table.

Rather than post objections explain what you want to happens when a character is unconscious and stabilized after getting nearly killed. Not in terms of D&D 5e or your flavor of the month but in terms as if I was standing there watching this play out in the setting for the campaign you plan to run.

For example characters in Middle Earth. There are numerous examples in the novels where it takes the characters reach a safe haven where they could get a solid rest and recover from their injuries. And no example where they fully recover over night. So when the designers of Adventures in Middle Earth adapted 5e, they altered the long rest so that it could only be taken during a Fellowship phase which can only occur at a Sanctuary i.e. while the PCs are in-town.

Nobody will be able to help you unless you tell us how this supposed to work in the settings you are planning to use for your campaign.

Quote from: Dumarest;1001041I thought you were into immersion. Referring to points of damage is the opposite of immersion.

If the hit caused minor damage:

"You hit him."

"How bad?"

"You can't tell just yet."



If the hit did substantial damage or the opponent has taken a number of minor hits in addition to this blow:

"You really cut/chopped/smashed/stabbed him with that one."


It's not that hard, folks.