Quote from: One Horse Town;301887We had a few cross-board tear ups with RPGnet before we got done. This is just another splintering. Teething pains will ease up - if people will grow up either side of the divide.

I made a grand total of three posts on RPgnet before the teenage fanclub descended like a pack of pimply piranhas who lost their virginity to 4E.

I approve of any "fuck you" they get.

Quote from: Hairfoot;301893I made a grand total of three posts on RPgnet before the teenage fanclub descended like a pack of pimply piranhas who lost their virginity to 4E.

I approve of any "fuck you" they get.

 Well, to give em a real "fuck you", you should post about how much a piece of trash you think Exalted is. You think the 4E fanboys suck, you'll have some real fun with the Exalted goons.

Quote from: Hairfoot;301869Indeed I don't, but that does sound a bit overwrought and conspiratorial.

Can you link me to examples of where "they've" "[spent] a great deal of their time on that site griping about me personally, dedicating entire threads to it, and make clear that their goal is to come on here and poach members"?

The posters there seem genuinely surprised that thread topics from RPG Haven appear here after they've been posted there.  That doesn't sound like I'll "find all their best ones here" due to coincidence.

Look at their threads on "The Forum" section of their site, where they talk with glee about who they're going to recruit, and how they want this place to be empty. Look at some other threads there where they talk about how much they hate me, and how they essentially want their site to be like this site but without me running it.

Good luck with that, by the way. They failed to get that you can't divorce one from the other. This site has succeeded because of me, not in spite of me.

RPGPundit

Ah, I just registered there with the handle "swinedecapitation". Seems free speech is also off-topic there, as it seem my account had been deleted.

Quote from: One Horse Town;301887It's just the same as this board was for a year or two - people not happy with a board starting their own, except here it was RPGnet.

We had a few cross-board tear ups with RPGnet before we got done. This is just another splintering. Teething pains will ease up - if people will grow up either side of the divide.

I agree.

For the record though, the RPGHaven was not set up "to spite" the rpgsite. It was set up as a site where you can discuss RPGs. Not RPGs Jim or I approve of. Not "real" rpgs. Role-playing games. A general game site without the moderation of RPG.Net. If anything, and I would not say this even, that would make us "in spite of" RPG.Net.

As to "poaching" his members...I do not have any words for that short of feel free to come over to the Haven. I, nor Jim, will claim you as serfs dedicated to "our" site. Heck, I even invited Cessna and listened to his advice on organizing the site.

For some insight into what I was really looking to do, I was going for the general aspects of RPG.Net with the feel of Squirrel Nutkinland with a dash of the serious down to business threads of EnWorld.

So, Dan, hopefully we will all grow up a bit.

Quote from: shalvayez;301905Ah, I just registered there with the handle "swinedecapitation". Seems free speech is also off-topic there, as it seem my account had been deleted.

You should have received a confirmation email. I will assume you did not or did not click on the confirmation part. Your account is now active and approved.

*sigh*

Can't we all just get along?

Quote from: HinterWelt;301907I agree.

Good.

QuoteAs to "poaching" his members...I do not have any words for that short of feel free to come over to the Haven. I, nor Jim, will claim you as serfs dedicated to "our" site. Heck, I even invited Cessna and listened to his advice on organizing the site.

Dunno. It can be seen that way - especially if that is your way of looking at things. For example, it was suggested that 'sensible' (the less charitable could read that as 'people i like') people be contacted. Hell, i suggested it myself in a moment when i was angry at Pundit for being hung out to dry over the CavScout incident. I also suggested that if you insist on being a reaction to here, it would come back to haunt you. It has become more clear to me over the weeks that is essentially what the RPGhaven is at this moment in time (no reason why it can't change), many comments have suggested this over multiple threads. I agree with Pundit on that score - and also have no beef with folk wanting to do it and actually doing it. It's a free fucking country and should make no difference to anyone what folk chose to do.

Sadly, i no longer think that the haven is for me. I can do without the drama.

QuoteSo, Dan, hopefully we will all grow up a bit.

See, i'm so internet battle-weary that this just came across as needlessly passive-agressive. I already stated this and you appel my name to it as though i didn't include myself in my original statement.

I'm weary of the internet in general, so maybe i'm just jaded...

Quote from: Benoist;301909*sigh*

Can't we all just get along?

I can. I get along fine here, there, and RPGNet too. I like Pundit, and think he's a crackerjack game designer, but the anti-Pundit thing is only on a few threads which I can easily avoid. Most of the site is good, and I've missed some of the people who are there and not here any more. I expect as the Haven matures it will find it's own way, just like this place did.

-clash

Well, I chased you away then OHT - by reacting to the reaction which was based on a faulty assumption - as so many are.

You see, I just went back and read through every one of those threads - the two major ones being the Recruitment thread and the Cool Message Boards thread.

You'll note, that there were many attempts to clarify that The RPG Haven was not simply a reaction to this place. In fact, I went so far as to admit that the push out of the nest, as it were, was growing tired of these very shenanigans - so that I was completely honest . But I also pointed out how I had been considering this for the d20 Haven for a long time. There's no "poaching" bull, except that everyone there pointed out who would be good to invite.

The only time it became an issue, you'll note, is when threads that were obviously sourced over there started showing up here - sometimes only a few minutes later! - without any link back. Some may call that common courtesy. I'm not so..forgiving - as someone illustrated to me by hearkening back to an old blog entry by Pundy himself where he outlines this very tactic. If there had been a link back - none of this goes on. But, you see, that's exactly what he wanted. He feels threatened.

So, you see, The RPG Haven was not created in spite of or as a reaction to this place in the way the Pundy tries to imply. Nobody who started the RPG Haven wants to see this place empty. Some disenchanted members here have decided to move on and The RPG Haven was a choice - but you'll note why those people moved on and you'll see it's on Pundy, not us.

Now, I've got no problem if you don't want to post at The RPG Haven. I'll miss your input - always loved your stuff. But don't miss your mark when you point the finger, old chum.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!;301873Paranoia isn't just an award-winning game from WEG, is it?

Let's see what about 5 mins of reviewing that site brings up:

Exhibit A: The entire thread titled "cool message boards" is not in fact about cool message boards, but a long rant about me and this site.

"Pundy's rather put out that someone created a forum that caters to essentially the same interests as his" -Ian Absentia

"PM the people who are not raving asshats, who also have the most interesting replies to the clone threads, with a invite to these boards" -Mark

In the "moderator policy site", Hinterwelt comments how he's recruiting Andy from Storygames and Cessna from RPG.net because he wants "advice" from "successful sites", and then talks about "looking at moderator policy" from the "Lens of the pundit" as an example of a failure. Needless to say, I was never invited to this site; which kind of destroys your whole argument of this not Being About Me, as it were.

Jim Skatch, as usual, threatening to use my "real" name and assholes like Droog talking about posting photographs of me. No, that's not aggressive behaviour of near-stalker proportions, is it Doc? You think that sort of bullshit is acceptable, or don't you? I didn't see you saying that they were crossing a fucking line.

Hinterwelt brags about how: "Pundit bitching about your site only makes it more visible"; he gets his wish, just this once.

Exhibit B: The ENTIRE Recruitment thread, where they basically admit that they're poaching this site to try to pluck out its "best" members.  And then they get pissed off that I'm copying some of their threads?

They talk about recruiting Zach because he's a mod, and WalkerP mentions how if they "Get Rotwang and jrients and it's game over, baby."

James Skach takes pride in the fact that the site is a place where "steadier hand operates the helm." and that "for me it has always been about" that. (the whole moderation forum is hilarious; half the people who would NEVER let a mod decision by me go without making vast paeans to "free speech" on here are there telling James and Hinterwelt that they should just be autocrats and pointing to the success of Andy's totalitarian moderation; apparently "free speech" only matters when you hate the guy making the calls... who happens to be the one guy who actually honestly gives a damn about free speech).

Finally, in the thread where they discuss the plan to create the Haven, back in the thread about what to make the site about, consonant dude says "opinion that theRPGsite is not a general roleplaying forum, that the administration over there doesn't even care about poll results or what the community wants."
In that same thread, balbinus states: "whether it is worth doing so or better just to lobby for changes at therpgsite where stuff is unsatisfactory. Pundy's change to putting Forgy games into Other Games is a recognition that his policy was unpopular, and so shows that lobbying can have an impact. It could be easier to improve the rpgsite than to set up a new and rival forum, which inevitably would be competing for posters. I don't presently have a firm view on the matter."
However, Hintewelt directly responds to this with a negative, stating that he wants to start up the Haven because he has been "Met with derision" on theRPGsite, and that the "base problem" of theRPGsite doesn't have to do with the organization of the forums (ie. his problem is with me). Hinterwelt also talks about how on this site "attacking the pundit is attacking freedom of speech".
In that thread, Hinterwelt and Skach make some lip-service to their site "not being in reaction to anything", but Skach in the same breath says "I'm tired of certain places and people", and its pretty clear from that very first thread that the whole raison d'etre of the Haven was to create RPGsite-without-the-Pundit.
So please, get real, Doc. You know as well as I do what many of those guys (including the founders) are doing posting those threads over there instead of over here.
They are a reactionary site, whether they want to admit it in so many words or not, and they've been way more fucking open about it than most.

And there's nothing wrong with that. People want to try to re-create this site without me, that's fine. But they shouldn't go to do that, and then make threads about poaching members from here, and then start to cry and whine when I fight back.

RPGPundit

Quote from: shalvayez;301905Ah, I just registered there with the handle "swinedecapitation". Seems free speech is also off-topic there, as it seem my account had been deleted.

They talked about that over there. Apparently Free Speech is only something that guys like Walker need to defend to their last fucking breath if its me who's the moderator. Over there, they can feel free to be totalitarian, because they don't really give a fuck about free speech. It turns out that it was always about just trying to bitch about my moderation all along.

RPGPundit

People seem to care what I think, so I'll tell you what I think about this.  Free speech and all of that.

I think having two boards to read is good for me.  The more, the merrier.

I think that whether or not The Haven was set up as a 'reaction' to The Site doesn't matter.  If it was (which I don't believe), whatever.  If not, whatever.

I think that The RPG Pundit is fucking nuts.  Seriously.  Like, Howard Hughes-grade jacked-up in the brains Kleenex-boxes-on-the-feet wahoo.  He's paranoid, he's boastful, he's a fucking sideshow.  Oh, that reminds me:

I think The RPG Pundit isn't a real guy.  I think he's an act; a role.  An experiment, maybe one taken so far as to...well...be annoying, frankly.  I mean, stand for what you stand and say your piece, but hammering, hammering, hammering...?  Ugh.

I think that The Pundit's act of transplanting thread topics, whatever its true or claimed intent, came across as laughable, childish and pathetic.  I didn't say much about it (very little, in fact) because I thought that things would right themselves without me.  It didn't hurt or offend me, my family or my friends, so I let it go.  

I think that this whole hobby is already pretty goofy-assed to begin with, without these inter-forum brouhahas and petty arguments and "Swine Wars" and other such bullshit.  Don't get me wrong -- I love this goofy-assed hobby like you wouldn't motherfucking believe, but I love it because it is so gleefully goofy-assed.  Not 'silly' or 'laughable' or 'lesser' to anything.  Look, we're playing pretend.  It's fun and it's social and it's something to share and enjoy and it's harmless and it's inspirational and it's educational and it's a pure goddamn delight.  This is a swell hobby to have and enjoy, my friend.  Still and all -- what's that quote about "My way of pretending to be a gay-ass elf", again?  Who said that?  I keep forgetting who said that.  Somebody tell me who said that so I can give him or her a medal.

I think the new Burger King Star Trek glasses are cool, and I already drank out of my Uhura one.  Hell, I even drank Pepsi out of it, and I really prefer Coke for some damn reason.

I think that I am done expressing my thoughts on this.

Quote from: HinterWelt;301907I agree.

For the record though, the RPGHaven was not set up "to spite" the rpgsite. It was set up as a site where you can discuss RPGs. Not RPGs Jim or I approve of. Not "real" rpgs. Role-playing games. A general game site without the moderation of RPG.Net. If anything, and I would not say this even, that would make us "in spite of" RPG.Net.

Bullshit. You were kind enough to keep up your original thread discussing the start of the Haven, and its pretty fucking clear that despite your lip-service about how "this is not a reaction site", you were talking in REACTIVE terms about theRPGsite from DAY FUCKING ONE.

Shit, you can't help yourself. In your paragraph above, even as you claim its not about reaction, your post is all about how much you hate me. When you say "real" RPGs, you give yourself away there, buddy...

RPGPundit

Quote from: James J Skach;301913Well, I chased you away then OHT - by reacting to the reaction which was based on a faulty assumption - as so many are.

You see, I just went back and read through every one of those threads - the two major ones being the Recruitment thread and the Cool Message Boards thread.

You'll note, that there were many attempts to clarify that The RPG Haven was not simply a reaction to this place. In fact, I went so far as to admit that the push out of the nest, as it were, was growing tired of these very shenanigans - so that I was completely honest . But I also pointed out how I had been considering this for the d20 Haven for a long time. There's no "poaching" bull, except that everyone there pointed out who would be good to invite.

The only time it became an issue, you'll note, is when threads that were obviously sourced over there started showing up here - sometimes only a few minutes later! - without any link back. Some may call that common courtesy. I'm not so..forgiving - as someone illustrated to me by hearkening back to an old blog entry by Pundy himself where he outlines this very tactic. If there had been a link back - none of this goes on. But, you see, that's exactly what he wanted. He feels threatened.

So, you see, The RPG Haven was not created in spite of or as a reaction to this place in the way the Pundy tries to imply. Nobody who started the RPG Haven wants to see this place empty. Some disenchanted members here have decided to move on and The RPG Haven was a choice - but you'll note why those people moved on and you'll see it's on Pundy, not us.

Now, I've got no problem if you don't want to post at The RPG Haven. I'll miss your input - always loved your stuff. But don't miss your mark when you point the finger, old chum.

I'm not going to argue with you, Jim. You're good people. Let's agree to disagree.

Hopefully, there'll come a time when this isn't an issue and we'll all hold hands and sing around the campfire.