The case: Anthrobot and Johnny have the same IP address. Johnny only seems to post to either agree with Anthrobot or to attack people who've attacked Anthrobot.

Yet "johnny" refuses to admit that he's a sockpuppet of Anthrobots, and offers nothing but gobbledeygook to defend himself ("you bet i'm a different person, i kick his ass in Tae-Kwon Do"; ok, sure that proves it... :rolleyes: )

So now I'm in a dilemma. I'm virtually certain that they're the same guy, and I'm pissed off that he refuses to admit it. The only consequence of Anthrobot admitting to me that he had a sockpuppet would have been that the sockpuppet would be taken away.  But now, he's lied to me.

I'm pissed off.

So here's the deal, Anthro: You either admit to the Johnny sockpuppet, or you (or "johnny") offer me some kind of incontrovertible proof that you are two different people, or you both get fucking banned for intentionally lying to the Admin about a Site issue.

Think hard about this, do you really want to beat out Nox, James, and everybody else to be the first real person EVER banned from theRPGsite? What a fucking waste that would be; before all of this, I even dug your posts.

I have labelled this thread "public consultation" in case anyone here wants to really advocate hard for the defence either of Anthrobot personally, or the precedent I'm setting here that lying to the Admins about admin issues (specifically sockpuppet accounts) will get you banned.  Feel free to post your opinions, unlike other sites we encourage advocacy here, and I want my decisions to be questioned/considered by all.

(again, if Anthro had just admitted he was Johnny, there's no way I'd have ever banned him)

RPGPundit

I would give him/them the chance to 'fess up here first. If he doesn't, the very next time he enters a thread simply to piss on Jimbob and add nothing to the thread, ban his arse.

Quote from: RPGPunditSo here's the deal, Anthro: You either admit to the Johnny sockpuppet, or you (or "johnny") offer me some kind of incontrovertible proof that you are two different people, or you both get fucking banned for intentionally lying to the Admin about a Site issue.

Whilst i agree with the sentiment I don't think you could ban either parties (assuming they are separate individuals - gotta love that benefit of the doubt!) for "intentionally lying".  You have no proof that either party has ever lied beyond your own suspicions.

However I am in full agreement that Anthro/Johnny need to prove they are in fact separate entities  - the fact that this hasn't been done yet doesn't bode well for either of them.  That, coupled with the previously stated forbidden nature of sockpuppets, would be reason enough to ban them.  

Hell, its your site - end of the day, you don't need a reason - but I'd warn you against allowing your emotion to cloud your judgement in this, or any, matter.

I agree. Multiple accounts without explanation ARE a worthy banning offence - on ANY forum.

- Q

I support the Pundit's line of reasoning on this matter.

I agree with banning IP addresses with multiple (sock puppet) accounts.

Here's the tool to use: Track all Duplicate IP Addresses via Admin CP.

Ban the sockpuppet, but not Anthro. End of story.

Quote from: JongWKBan the sockpuppet, but not Anthro. End of story.

And if he sock-puppets again?

- Q

Give all users with sock puppets 1 week to remove their extra accounts.  Then do a search to compare IP addresses.  Then send out "WTF" email. Then ban.

I guess I am the odd man out in this thread. I could care less if someone has twenty sockpuppets. Who cares? Well, obviously everyone else. We have people who give advice on pedantry, support religious intolerance and use language that would make a trucker blush but heavens forbid they should lie. It just seems a bit out of proportion.

Now, if he is disrupting the forum then sure, ban him in a second. Sock puppets...meh. If he uses the sock puppet to attack with impugnity, disrupt threads and destroy good RPG discussion, THAT goes against the charter. Being truthful to the admin...maybe not so much.

However, I fully admit that I am in the minority and bow to the will of the community.

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltWe have people who give advice on pedantry, support religious intolerance and use language that would make a trucker blush but heavens forbid they should lie.

Well Bill, I appreciate your considered tone on the matter, but you and I have discussed multiple accounts before and, I guess, agreed to disagree.

I'll still stand by: I can't see a reason for additional accounts other than foul play. And if a sock-puppeteer is called on that, and then refuses or neglects to respond in a way that satisfies the admin doing the calling...IP ban 'em.

I'm all for people spouting as much shit as they want and not getting banned for it, but when they make like We Are Legion, fuck 'em.

- Q

Its that sockpuppets do precisely that, they disrupt the forum.  Especially in the fairly classic way anthro was using it. Ie:

Poster 1: I think that the french are sodomites.
Poster 2: you're an idiot.
Poster 1's sockpuppet: I agree with Poster 1.
Poster 1's 2nd sockpuppet: Poster 2 is a slimy frog!

In other words, not only do you end up having idiots having lengthy conversations with themselves, but you end up in a situation where you can never be sure who is who, people get around ignore lists, people create (often obvious, but occasionally less obvious) false consensus about controversial issues, its all just basically an invitation to "cheat" at the Forum game by having multiple players.

finally, to my tech admins: Could you guys get that add-on for our Admin panel? That looks like it'd be something we could really use.

RPGPundit

Quote from: QuireWell Bill, I appreciate your considered tone on the matter, but you and I have discussed multiple accounts before and, I guess, agreed to disagree.

I'll still stand by: I can't see a reason for additional accounts other than foul play. And if a sock-puppeteer is called on that, and then refuses or neglects to respond in a way that satisfies the admin doing the calling...IP ban 'em.

I'm all for people spouting as much shit as they want and not getting banned for it, but when they make like We Are Legion, fuck 'em.

- Q

Oh, to be clear, I can see a use but in reality I just do not care. If they really want go through all the trouble of making a second or more account, keeping track of which they are posting with, I could care less. I guess what I am saying is, punish the action not the mechanism. If someone creates a second account to get around a banning...well, they are getting around a banning which seems the bigger issue. If someone creates a second account to get around an ignore list and they go and harass the person who ignored them...again, the bigger issue. If you just make a second account, whoopee for you. I made a second account called "socky" and joked with Clash. It was my one an only post. Should I be banned for it?

I await my official banning. (Note: For those without a sense of humor I am typing with a humorous tone and not a snarky, righteous indignation tone).

Bill

Quote from: HinterWeltI made a second account called "socky" and joked with Clash. It was my one an only post. Should I be banned for it?

Nope, because you've already made it clear that it was for a laugh, not at least by calling the account 'socky'. It's more than evident that that is a joke.

Quote from: HinterWelt(Note: For those without a sense of humor I am typing with a humorous tone and not a snarky, righteous indignation tone).

FWIW, I can see that.

It's the 'being called on it' bit that is important. If there isn't a positive reason for doing it - or even, hell, if they can't MAKE UP a good reason for doing it -  then fuck 'em.

- Q