Quote from: Swiss Toni;665160People use multiple forums though, I would have thought. Personally, I know what sort of games are going to be discussed here and I will go to other rpg forums to read about games that I know are going to be unpopular here or get the mongy 'other games' treatment.

I would imagine most people can't be arsed with the 'your rpg isn't a proper game, duh' stuff you get here and will discuss certain games elsewhere.

The whole point is that creating a false games ghetto based on some really odd and childish reasoning isn't an incentive for people to talk about those games.

Certainly not when there are other forums out there.

Simples.

No argument from me.

So, in essence, if i get this right - some people are saying that this site would be their preferred one if we didn't have a separate forum for storygames even though there isn't actually anything stopping them from talking about them anyway?

That basically makes us another forum without some of the mods everyone seems to dislike.

The other games forum is a bit antiquated now, but remember, this forum was founded as a haven from the Forge missionary nonsense found everywhere else in the mid noughties.

Like i said, it might be a bit outdated now, but i think it's worth pointing out again why this place was started up.

Quote from: One Horse Town;665192No argument from me.

So, in essence, if i get this right - some people are saying that this site would be their preferred one if we didn't have a separate forum for storygames even though there isn't actually anything stopping them from talking about them anyway?

That basically makes us another forum without some of the mods everyone seems to dislike.

The other games forum is a bit antiquated now, but remember, this forum was founded as a haven from the Forge missionary nonsense found everywhere else in the mid noughties.

Like i said, it might be a bit outdated now, but i think it's worth pointing out again why this place was started up.

My perception from talking to some other rpg.netters about this place is that while therpgsite's reputation as 'the forum people that were banned from rpg.net use to cry about being banned' has declined a fair bit, but that it's reputation as 'the forum where some crazy dude is crazy about games he doesn't like' is still going strong.

I don't really think either of those perceptions hold much merit anymore, though there is enough of 'lots of games about make believe are badwrongfun, and aren't real games about make believe, like the games about make believe we play' around here that I can see why the latter sticks.

Considering how rpg.net has declined as an rpg forum the past few years, you would have thought that this place would have picked up more than it has.

Quote from: Swiss Toni;665218Considering how rpg.net has declined as an rpg forum the past few years, you would have thought that this place would have picked up more than it has.

I think this is a very astute observation.

Quote from: Swiss Toni;665160People use multiple forums though, I would have thought. Personally, I know what sort of games are going to be discussed here and I will go to other rpg forums to read about games that I know are going to be unpopular here or get the mongy 'other games' treatment.

I would imagine most people can't be arsed with the 'your rpg isn't a proper game, duh' stuff you get here and will discuss certain games elsewhere.

The whole point is that creating a false games ghetto based on some really odd and childish reasoning isn't an incentive for people to talk about those games.

Certainly not when there are other forums out there.

Simples.

Good. I'm not under any obligation to "encourage" or force equal time for Storygames discussion than I am for discussion about knitting, or any other stupid hobby I don't actually like.

Anyone who wants to can talk to their hearts' delight about the merits of playing sexually deviant college professors in a player-controlled artificial environment carefully free of any risk of emulation where the goal is to create narrative about the theme of despair; in the Other Games forum with all the other games, where it belongs... as much as they want, to the limits of legality at least (its sad that I feel like I have to add that last note).  But really, I'm sure there ARE other places where people could talk about Storygames much more effectively, like, say... the story-games forum comes to mind!  

So really, I wonder, why is it that Storygamer Swine are SO desperate to make sure you can talk about them "freely" (Ie. forcing them onto the regular RPG forum) here?? Why could that be?? Its almost like their movement has this Great Commission to go out and make Storygamers of all Forums...

theRPGsite was founded as the place where Storygames would not be allowed to pull that subversive bullshit, and no amount of whining will ever change that. I know that's how people like you took over other RPG forums, its not going to work here.

And the funniest thing is, I'm doing it while preserving your right to speech within the rules of on-topic posting. Talk about Storygames is completely allowed, free and within the forum where it belongs, OTHER GAMES.  So the goal becomes quite nakedly marked, if someone finds that insufficient; its not about freedom of speech, its about "changing the nature of the forum" (ie. flooding the main forum with Forge Swine-talk until we too have conformed to the glorious revolution).

RPGPundit

Quote from: One Horse Town;665192No argument from me.

So, in essence, if i get this right - some people are saying that this site would be their preferred one if we didn't have a separate forum for storygames even though there isn't actually anything stopping them from talking about them anyway?

That basically makes us another forum without some of the mods everyone seems to dislike.

The other games forum is a bit antiquated now, but remember, this forum was founded as a haven from the Forge missionary nonsense found everywhere else in the mid noughties.

Like i said, it might be a bit outdated now, but i think it's worth pointing out again why this place was started up.

The Forge's been dead for a year.

My proposition would be to post aside Other Games (which'd stay for board games and video games) a Non Traditional RPG/Storygames forum - named exactly that. This way those who want to claim them Storygames have their cake and eaten their cake, and those who get the shakes of having to post in Other Games can also have their cake and eat their cake, as they can say it's Non Traditional RPG.

Quote from: Swiss Toni;665218Considering how rpg.net has declined as an rpg forum the past few years, you would have thought that this place would have picked up more than it has.

Again, this place has grown every single year that I've run it.  Its funny how now your line of argument has gone from "if it wasn't for the pundit, this place would be prospering" to, in the face of facts, "if it wasn't for the pundit, this place would be prospering...er, even more!".

I could just as easily say that if it wasn't for constant, constant attempts to subvert and defame the site on the part of Swine everywhere, it might be doing better, but even then only in the sense of a few potential posters who'd like the freedom here not being scared away by the fearmongering and outright slander engaged in by the rpgnet modclique or the Story Swine about how "awful" this place is.

Otherwise, theRPGsite will naturally be missing certain groups based on how its run: it will have less Swine (excepting those crusading ones out to either try to destroy this place or convert it); it will have less emotional wrecks demanding heavy moderation for them to have a "safe environment"; it will have less pseudo-activists insisting on control so that they can manipulate sentiments against racism/sexism/homophobia in order to win arguments and ban enemies; it will have less people who aren't really roleplayers but show up for off-topic discussion; and it will have less rules-lawyer posters out to play at rigid moderation rules to try to get their way.

And the absence of all these various sorts of human detritus is part of what makes theRPGsite a better place.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Rincewind1;665235The Forge's been dead for a year.

My proposition would be to post aside Other Games (which'd stay for board games and video games) a Non Traditional RPG/Storygames forum - named exactly that. This way those who want to claim them Storygames have their cake and eaten their cake, and those who get the shakes of having to post in Other Games can also have their cake and eat their cake, as they can say it's Non Traditional RPG.

No. This is an RPG forum.  In recognition that a lot of RPG gamers like other game-related hobbies we have the Other Games forum, and we don't specifically exclude Storygames from that forum...why would we? Someone could post about Hungry Hungry Hippos if they wanted to on the Other Forum, and Storygaming is certainly closer to the RPG hobby than that, what with being, along with Wargames, cRPGs, CCGs, and LARPing, in the same broad general "family" of games.

But just as there's no reason to exclude it, there's also no reason to specifically single it out. Its not closer to RPGs, necessarily, than any of the aforementioned, and I don't think this forum needs specific subforums for cRPGs or LARPing or Wargames (and certainly not CCGs), so why would Storygames get one? Just because a tiny group of extremely dedicated advocates who are otherwise hostile to the site have come on here and are trying to insistently lobby for it? I don't play that game.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Swiss Toni;665158I think it's pretty easy to think the site has some good points and enjoy those good points, while being aware that the segregation of games that goes on is arbitrary, infantile and rather cringeworthy.

I think you are deliberately phrasing this tempest in a teapot so that it gets conflated with racism. That says a lot about your position and purpose.

Quote from: jeff37923;665242I think you are deliberately phrasing this tempest in a teapot so that it gets conflated with racism. That says a lot about your position and purpose.

Nonsense.

I know this guy from RPGnet and he's pretty much as traditional in his gaming as you or i.

He likes moaning about modding though.

Quote from: RPGPundit;665234Good. I'm not under any obligation to "encourage" or force equal time for Storygames discussion than I am for discussion about knitting, or any other stupid hobby I don't actually like.

Anyone who wants to can talk to their hearts' delight about the merits of playing sexually deviant college professors in a player-controlled artificial environment carefully free of any risk of emulation where the goal is to create narrative about the theme of despair; in the Other Games forum with all the other games, where it belongs... as much as they want, to the limits of legality at least (its sad that I feel like I have to add that last note).  But really, I'm sure there ARE other places where people could talk about Storygames much more effectively, like, say... the story-games forum comes to mind!  

So really, I wonder, why is it that Storygamer Swine are SO desperate to make sure you can talk about them "freely" (Ie. forcing them onto the regular RPG forum) here?? Why could that be?? Its almost like their movement has this Great Commission to go out and make Storygamers of all Forums...

theRPGsite was founded as the place where Storygames would not be allowed to pull that subversive bullshit, and no amount of whining will ever change that. I know that's how people like you took over other RPG forums, its not going to work here.

And the funniest thing is, I'm doing it while preserving your right to speech within the rules of on-topic posting. Talk about Storygames is completely allowed, free and within the forum where it belongs, OTHER GAMES.  So the goal becomes quite nakedly marked, if someone finds that insufficient; its not about freedom of speech, its about "changing the nature of the forum" (ie. flooding the main forum with Forge Swine-talk until we too have conformed to the glorious revolution).

RPGPundit

Honestly fella, the above really comes off as a pretty weird sort of paranoia and a bit mental.

You do realise that we are talking about games where we all pretend to be Flabberghast the Wizard, or approximations thereof?

Quote from: One Horse Town;665243Nonsense.

I know this guy from RPGnet and he's pretty much as traditional in his gaming as you or i.

He likes moaning about modding though.

OK, I'll take your word for it.

Quote from: RPGPundit;665236Again, this place has grown every single year that I've run it.  Its funny how now your line of argument has gone from "if it wasn't for the pundit, this place would be prospering" to, in the face of facts, "if it wasn't for the pundit, this place would be prospering...er, even more!".

I could just as easily say that if it wasn't for constant, constant attempts to subvert and defame the site on the part of Swine everywhere, it might be doing better, but even then only in the sense of a few potential posters who'd like the freedom here not being scared away by the fearmongering and outright slander engaged in by the rpgnet modclique or the Story Swine about how "awful" this place is.

Otherwise, theRPGsite will naturally be missing certain groups based on how its run: it will have less Swine (excepting those crusading ones out to either try to destroy this place or convert it); it will have less emotional wrecks demanding heavy moderation for them to have a "safe environment"; it will have less pseudo-activists insisting on control so that they can manipulate sentiments against racism/sexism/homophobia in order to win arguments and ban enemies; it will have less people who aren't really roleplayers but show up for off-topic discussion; and it will have less rules-lawyer posters out to play at rigid moderation rules to try to get their way.

And the absence of all these various sorts of human detritus is part of what makes theRPGsite a better place.

RPGPundit

I personally don't see you as a major issue for the forum, to be honest. I don't think most posters take your screeds seriously, it's just how you think you generate page counts by being one of those angry blogger types.

I do think that the forum has issues with the reputation it has garnered over the years but you may note, by reading what I wrote, that I don't think either of the examples I gave hold much water.

Again, you do realise how silly some of this stuff you write down comes across, right?

Quote from: RPGPundit;665234Anyone who wants to can talk to their hearts' delight about the merits of playing sexually deviant college professors in a player-controlled artificial environment carefully free of any risk of emulation where the goal is to create narrative about the theme of despair; RPGPundit

Here's the thing though.  A huge pool of games that you classify as "storygames" don't have anything like that at all.  It would be like classifying AD&D as a demon worshipping, harlot raping game.  It's almost like you're classifying any game that you consider a storygame as Maid.  

I sure as hell don't know exactly where the line is drawn between a "storygame" and a "traditional RPG", and each time I see this argument crop up, the lines seem to be constantly shifting as to what's what.

Personally, I don't care enough about that particular battle to die on one hill or the other.  But what I do know is that you love it when membership on this site increases, particulary at the expense of another rival site.  That's why it strikes me as odd when you get wound up over such an arbritrary and subjective fine line.

And while it doesn't really bother me one way or the other, it's why I agreed with Toni in his (or her) observation of the reputation this site has.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;665248I sure as hell don't know exactly where the line is drawn between a "storygame" and a "traditional RPG", and each time I see this argument crop up, the lines seem to be constantly shifting as to what's what.

There is NO line. It's a spectrum, like between RPGs and wargames, which doesn't mean the distinction doesn't exist, or isn't useful. It's been pointed out over and over. Why is this canard still showing up?

Quote from: RPGPundit;665236Again, this place has grown every single year that I've run it.

In quantity or quality?