Quote from: walkerpThis is really the heart of where I have a problem with you.  You keep trying to slot me into some position in your fantasy war.

I've not slotted you anywhere - except as a pretentious little git.  Now that may put you in the company of some fine luminaries in the Indie movement, but it's not in any way meant to make you part of any discussion about GNS/TBM and the piece of shit that it is.  If you'd like to have that discussion, feel free; I won't stop you.  I might have a difference of opinion, but that's not stopping you from saying what you want.  Here's the catch, you have to have some kind of proof or logical argument.  Since you don't seem to be able to do that (except by saying "your argument is shit), I won't be holding mt breath.

Quote from: walkerpNow if you were just using my post as an example to say "look, daddy-Pundit, this poster's logic is convoluted in a similar way to the invading enemy.  It is not worth it to answer." I guess that would make some weird, indirect sense.

Ding ding ding!  But I wouldn't go so far as to say your logic is convoluted - first you'd need to use some logic.  But dare to dream - aspire to convoluted, at least it's a start.

Quote from: walkerpBut you are slotting me into some slot that I don't even fit in and saying, "see here's one of THEM and look at how convoluted his logic is."  Because I grew tired of 3.5 and don't like the D20 system, I am suddenly the enemy.

No.  You became an "enemy" when you said d20 players were narrow minded. You attempted to later qualify that by saying it was the players in your group/area.  But then you got on some other pretentious bullshit.  And then you used that "you swore at me first" crap (which you used in that original thread but never stayed around to answer the response, and then dragged it out again here - apparently never realising you swore first).  As for "the enemy," I don't think I've ever called them that.  I have called them many other things. But enemy?

Quote from: walkerpSince you and your crew are the dominant voice on this site, it basically comes off as being extremely unwelcoming to us normal gamers (which I very much consider myself).

Neat! I have a crew? They prefer "posse." They (and I) tend to be unwelcoming to people who come in spouting unsubstantiated shit and then claim every one is being big meanie weenies! In this place, that's like blood to sharks, man.

Quote from: walkerpIt's not enough to be normal to be accepted here, but you have to hate a big swath of other gamers and actively work against them, at least rhetorically.

You don't have to hate anyone.  Just don't be a pretentious twit.  That's a good place to start.

Quote from: walkerpIf you show any support of them or any critique of D&D, suddenly you are swine.  That shit is lame and depressing for someone like me looking for a place to talk about gaming and the industry without getting censored or drowned in too much incestuous self-loving.

You can critique D&D all you like.  I have problems with it. Go look at how worried I am about 4th edition - much to the scorn and amusement of some on this site. Nobody is censoring you, unless that includes challenging you to prove what you claim. And man, if you are willing to go to either Story Games or The Forge - then come back and call this place incestuous self loving.

Quote from: walkerpSo you and your little warrior cronies can keep on fighting your bizarre war and ripping apart anybody who doesn't tow the line.

Again with the cronies?  I'd bet more than half the people on this site either can't stand me or dont know me.  The rest are probably indifferent. And they only tend to rip apart people who spout shit - it's not about a line to tow. If you can't take the heat...

Quote from: walkerpBut please don't deceive yourselves into thinking your normal, average, traditional gamers.  You're not.  You're ideologues fighting an enemy that barely exists and is still beating you in sales and marketing strategies.

Yeah, you got me there.  DitV has totally pwned me...by...like...3000 copies.  Then again, I've never written a game, so my total sales are zero. I'm just a gamer.  I played D&D last weekend, Roma Imperious at the last ENWorld game day, own the original Amber, but never got a chance to play, ditto with GURPS and would love to try either if I could find a group who'd give me a chance. I'd play just about anything Clash or Hinterwelt put together, just for the chance to try something interesting (but you know us D&D/d20 players - close minded and all). Is that normal enough for you?

The fact that I also think GNS/TBM is a piece of crap for it's over-reaching attempt that's nothing more than a marketing tool does not take away from any of that.

Quote from: James J SkachI played D&D last weekend, Roma Imperious at the last ENWorld game day, own the original Amber, but never got a chance to play, ditto with GURPS and would love to try either if I could find a group who'd give me a chance.

Frustrating, that.  Too bad GURPS and Amber are such inferior products that they were never able to garner the market share that the significantly superior D&D 3.5 earned through sheer excellence and quality.  Ah well, that's the nature of the free market.  Good luck with that!

Quote from: walkerpFrustrating, that.  Too bad GURPS and Amber are such inferior products that they were never able to garner the market share that the significantly superior D&D 3.5 earned through sheer excellence and quality.  Ah well, that's the nature of the free market.  Good luck with that!

w
Well, if it's any consolation, I tend to think of Gurps as a lot less mass-appealing because of the detailed points budgeting and no set genre, so it was already at a disadvantage there- you can't just pull Gurps off the shelf and "run it", you have to have a setting and planned out stuff, and Amber just has a much more narrow interest base. I'm not even sure the amber books have been in print for a while.. although maybe.

I think D&D3.5 definitely did earn it's place through sheer excellence and quality.

Quote from: walkerpFrustrating, that.  Too bad GURPS and Amber are such inferior products that they were never able to garner the market share that the significantly superior D&D 3.5 earned through sheer excellence and quality.  Ah well, that's the nature of the free market.  Good luck with that!

If lower market share indicates an "inferior product", then what does that say about the indie games compared to GURPS and Amber?

Not that I think sales are a measure of quality. That's your view, not mine. But if it were true, then Dogs in the Vineyard is crap compared to GURPS and Amber.

And d4-d4 is crapper still. :deflated:

Quote from: walkerpFrustrating, that.  Too bad GURPS and Amber are such inferior products that they were never able to garner the market share that the significantly superior D&D 3.5 earned through sheer excellence and quality.  Ah well, that's the nature of the free market.  Good luck with that!

Yeah, well, the difference is I don't hold such a grudge about it that I have to go out to the intrawebs and complain about other gamers calling them things like "narrow-minded" or "close-minded.  I just assume they have different tastes.  Hell, there's a whole sub-forum here on Amber (not to mention the GURPS lord that is Koltar) and I'm pretty sure at least one of the regular posters is in Illinois.  So it's as much about me being able to get the nerve to ask and the time to commit.  I don't blame others.

I accept the free market all of the time - not just when it fits my tastes and schedule.

But it's a nice try walker, really. You keep at it.  You'll get the hang of it.

Quote from: walkerpFrustrating, that.  Too bad GURPS and Amber are such inferior products that they were never able to garner the market share that the significantly superior D&D 3.5 earned through sheer excellence and quality.  Ah well, that's the nature of the free market.  Good luck with that!

Watch it!!

 ...as in the stickied thread up in the RolePlaying Section at the top of the forum. GURPS is in the top 5 or 6 often enough that I'd say they have a fair market share all things considered. I don't see Amber in there as often - tho I hear from many that it is also a good game.

 And for the record , D20/D&D is okay with me - its just not the game system that I'm comfortable with.


- Ed C.

Quote from: JamesVThis has now become the most hilariously retarded thread on gaming I've ever read. In this case I'm totally with McMurray, please continue, but do be sure to continue to ratchet up the rhetoric.
 
Here are some more issues and activities Forgers and Story Gamers could be considered in league with:
 
Incest
Cannibalism
Rape
Genocide
The Darfur Conflict
The Chinese Manufacturing Complex
Animal Torture
Juggling

JamesV wins the thread. I thought that the post of Koltar asking Tony about his friends was retarded, but this thread wins by a fair lot.

Quote from: RPGPunditIt certainly will, at least until Tony is willing to admit that Ron Edwards started it.
 
RPGPundit

Is that all that you need to stop spouting your stupid bullshit, and return to speaking about RPGs? If that's all that is needed to prevent you to keep on being such a moron, I'll say it:
 
Ron Edwards started it.
 
Happy now? Don't thank me.

I love all of you guys so much, and threads like this really remind me why.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;229547I love all of you guys so much, and threads like this really remind me why.

Yeah, not my finest hour, to be sure.

I think me and Ben are cool now, anyhow. A misunderstanding which spawned a monster.

I'm a sad little fucker who likes this place enough that if i think someone is here just to fuck with the place, i take exception.

Quote from: Imperator;133918Is that all that you need to stop spouting your stupid bullshit, and return to speaking about RPGs? If that's all that is needed to prevent you to keep on being such a moron, I'll say it:
 
Ron Edwards started it.
 
Happy now? Don't thank me.

This post is made of beautiful and impossible dreams.

Quote from: Aos;229584This post is made of beautiful and impossible dreams.

I know. But dreams are what make us keep going

@JDCorley:

Want to know who made your "innocent" story gamer stick impossible?

TonyLB & others of his likes. They already pulled that stunt over here and other places just too often. We even convicted him of his false and misleading behaviour. AFTER we had to endure hundreds of posts where he was sucking all our good will and tolerance from us.

So, you face a severe swim up the Waterfall.

You´re whining and moaning also match directly into the attention-whoring scheme, that´s been proven to be on-purpose interest generation for the pyramid scheme.

Right now the S(t)or(r)y Gamers are suchly incriminated, that basically it doesn´t matter what they do, it will be perceived as deceit.

Such are the evils of being part of a culture (even via guilt of association) that was built on deceit, shilling and intellectual dishonesty.

Madness you might say. But after TonyLB & Co, it´s the MOST reasonable thing to do.

This again? Yep, therpgsite is over the hill. It's started "reliving past glories" instead of doing something new and interesting. But at least it's funny to watch the decline.