Quote from: walkerpDamn, I was honest and tried to offer some constructive criticism for the site.  My bad.  Back to attack mode.

One of the main reasons I hate D&D (and the victims and poorly-informed fools who play it) is because it manipulates Actor Stance in a way that is a misinformed reading of The Big Model.  This, of course, leads to brain damage.  We need to find ways to convert D&D players using their own tools against them: their reflexive gamism lack of narrative self-discipline.  Let's try this out at the next convention!

How is that?  Does that fit your expectations better?

My advice: Do as I and several others are now actively doing- ignore these threads and start or post in an actual RPG thread. There is no point in engaging in argument with people who think everyone who disagrees with them is an evil moron.

Quote from: joewolzWho cares?  You just have to have thick skin and a quick Ignore list finger to work well here, pardner.  Where's that Aces and Eights thread?  I wanna piss an moan about the setting!

Also, I don't like D&D, and swine just means people the Pundit doesn't like.

Which is why I don't use the word "swine" unless I'm referring to my favoritest of meats.

Quote from: walkerpAnd to be honest, I don't even know what constitutes "neutral" here, the language police are so subtle and severe.  And I have opinions about things and don't think I should have to censor myself, especially not in a site which is supposed to encourage free speech.

But I'll give it a try.  Your voice has been one of the reasonable and interesting ones that give me hope.  Really, it was Zachary the First's GenCon thread that brought me back.

Neutral is easy. Talk about the game you want to talk about, not other games that you don't like or have a problem with.

Quote from: Abyssal MawI disagree with you, though, because I think there is money involved here, even if the individual marketeer isn't the one who benefits or profits directly; this is the nature of the collective.

The point is that in the thread I was quoted in, I was not telling people how to market anything except in the broadest sense of 'marketing' meaning 'persuasion'.  If I have a game I want to run at a con, whether it's D&D or RPGPundit's small press classic Women: The Filthy Whoring (now with new playtest supplements "Bitches and Cunts"), there is no better way to get people to come play than to find a place where people are talking about playing at the con and say "hey, I'm running this game, here's what you might like about it".  

I honestly don't care if every indie game, and D&D too, dies in the gutter. I'm a consumer, not a producer, and my identity is not bound up in my ability to pay fifty bucks for a game supplement. Any meat tube with a credit card can do that. As a result, I do not and cannot "market" things in any meaningful way. How can I be expecting a quid pro quo when I don't even have anything to sell, and no plans to make anything to sell?

So I deny categorically being part of any "collective" because I find many of the discussions at story-games helpful and enlightening and believe they improve my gaming. I don't have anything to sell and I'm not trolling for anything to buy.

QuoteUnfortunately, the forgies have got so fucking many smug, self-inflated dicks, and nearly every effort is on promoting the collective and not the games, that you guys are pretty much guaranteed trouble--especially after every public appearance.

"You guys"?

QuoteBy the way.. welcome to theRPGSite!

Thank you - as I mentioned, I was here all along. I will likely go back to lurking and watch you kids go marching along the same as you've marched along since the letters column in Dragon complained about house rules all day long. There is always a blubbering whinefest - whoops, I mean "war" - on.  Always.  

Every couple of months since 1978, some gaming figure has popped up to scream at gamers that they're stupid and ugly. Gygax did it, Rein-Hagen did it, Edwards did it, Wick did it, Costyikan did it, blah blah blah.  Lower the bar to include Internet flames and probably it has happened every hour since the advent of Usenet.  Eventually you just learn to :rolleyes: and move on.  No, let me correct that. Eventually I just learned to :rolleyes: and move on.

But...but... gamers are all stupid and ugly, and mostly old, too- old, wrinkly and limp.

Quote from: AosBut...but... gamers are all stupid and ugly, and mostly old, too- old, wrinkly and limp.

No - that's just me...

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceNo - that's just me...

-clash

Quote from: chucklesDude, pundit compared Ron Edwards to a serial killer and Hitler, diplomacy doesn't live here anymore.

See, I knew you guys would grasp at that. It's a desperation move, though.  Thanks for your participation in the Forgie war, though!

Quote from: JDCorleyThe point is that in the thread I was quoted in, I was not telling people how to market anything except in the broadest sense of 'marketing' meaning 'persuasion'.  If I have a game I want to run at a con, whether it's D&D or RPGPundit's small press classic Women: The Filthy Whoring (now with new playtest supplements "Bitches and Cunts"),

Thats the thing. RPGPundit writes games about guys exploring dungeons. You must be thinking of one of Ron's Sorcerer supplements, or possibly that Poison'd ritualized rape thing thats all the rage right now.  

Now.. which one actually does more damage? Which one takes brutality and makes it into entertainment?

See how easy it is? We actually don't try to wrap politics up in gaming!  

QuoteI do not and cannot "market" things in any meaningful way. How can I be expecting a quid pro quo when I don't even have anything to sell, and no plans to make anything to sell?

So I deny categorically being part of any "collective" because I find many of the discussions at story-games helpful and enlightening and believe they improve my gaming. I don't have anything to sell and I'm not trolling for anything to buy.

Ah, but you personally aren't actually part of the problem.

QuoteThank you - as I mentioned, I was here all along. I will likely go back to lurking and watch you kids go marching along the same as you've marched along since the letters column in Dragon complained about house rules all day long. There is always a blubbering whinefest - whoops, I mean "war" - on.  Always.

Strangely enough, that's what heartens me. I know we'll be here long after you guys have moved on. Likely there will be a whole new fresh batch of mediocre boutique designers trying to save us all by then. And next year the issue might be.. I dunno. microbial rights. Or vegetarianism, or maybe they'll eventually get around to embracing the furry's and there will be that game that legitimizes bestiality or something.

I never know whats going to come next, but it's always stupid.

Quote from: Abyssal MawSee, I knew you guys would grasp at that. It's a desperation move, though.  Thanks for your participation in the Forgie war, though!

I didn't even think of that, replace diplomacy with tact (you have a fairly one track mind).  Especially since his great-grandparents died in Auschwitz.

+5 vorpal Godwin.

I just keep wondering if some of you guys actually have hair on your nuts yet.

Quote from: walkerpThanks for the advice, but I have to admit I'm wary.  I'm quite hot on Aces & Eights right now, but I honestly can't predict what unwritten rule I am going to break by bringing that game up since I've seen nobody else mention it here.

Don't be a pussy. You're talking on the internet, it's less like a regular conversation and more like a crowd at a football match. There'll be little atches of intelligent conversation, but there'll also be a lot of bruising from pushing through the crowd to the hot dog stand.

Just go ahead and discuss whatever you want to discuss.

Quote from: walkerpAnd when I did try to throw an actual game design idea out there, hoping for some feedback and input, I got dead silence.

Yeah, this ain't the best place for game design chat. Talking about current games and your ideas about and experiences of them gets you a long way.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThats the thing. RPGPundit writes games about guys exploring dungeons. You must be thinking of one of Ron's Sorcerer supplements, or possibly that Poison'd ritualized rape thing thats all the rage right now.  

That pair of sentences is perhaps the perfect storm of idiocy, ignorance, inadequacy, error, brownnosing and obliviousness.  I'm going to notify the Internet that it can now be closed.

QuoteStrangely enough, that's what heartens me. I know we'll be here long after you guys have moved on.

"You guys"?? Again?

Try to remember what you post two lines earlier. Namely:

QuoteAh, but you personally aren't actually part of the problem.

Ask your mom to write it down on a sticky note and attach it to your computer if your primitive brainstem can't store it. It will save time and embarassment.  

QuoteLikely there will be a whole new fresh batch of mediocre boutique designers trying to save us all by then.

No no, no. This is C minus passive-aggressive point-missing at the best. Hardly up to the standards you set earlier. You can do better than to call Gygax a "mediocre boutique designer" and hope that nobody will notice.  Remember, we can all page back and look at what was posted previously, even if you can't work out how to click the little thingy next to the keyboard.

Now that I have done my part to raise the quality of posting here, I am back to lurking. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. If I did, the entertainment value of the site would decrease, much like the Forge would if they stopped believing in GNS. Fortunately the chances of either event happening seem to be about the same.

JD, I only seem to be addressing you in my posts here. When I talk about mediocre boutique designers, those guys are all reading my posts and they know exactly who they are. So most of your stuff is kinda going over my head and around me.

Meanwhile, I am holding the attention of the people who need to read this.

I do appreciate you showing up though.  Good stuff! I also hope you guys (yeah, I did it again!) will rethink trying to use our community here for stealth promotion. There's a right and a wrong way to go about such things, and it really is possible to promote your designs or whatever without being a complete and total tool.  

Eventually some of you will figure that out.