This regards the recent banning of 5 Stone Games, which as I understand it was for his expressing racist beliefs that South African blacks have lower IQ (among other things) - and also applies to the recent question over homophobia.

I would suggest that if people can be banned for this, then

(1) It should be an official position with a sticky on Pundit's Forum that people can be banned for expressing racist and/or homophobic beliefs; and
(2) Posters should be warned and given a chance to correct their behavior if they violate the rule.

This is just a suggestion, but I think it would be more in keeping with the standards of the site.

I can understand banning deliberate trolling - but that is a subjective judgement. While he wasn't the most insightful poster or anything, 5 Stone Games did post regularly about gaming - and it is at least plausible that his statements were genuine beliefs rather than trolling. As far as I saw, he wasn't particularly disruptive and didn't violate moderator warnings.

Is there already a written policy on banning? If not, that would be a good idea. If there is, it should be updated if there has been a change in RPGPundit's thinking on what's appropriate or not.

I agree on jhkim's idea about a warning before banning.

If it's going to be a "Free Speech Except XYZ" site, then let's make sure X, Y, Z are all defined clearly for everyone.

Well, this was from the RPGsite Constitution thread (albiet from a mod who doesn't post here anymore, sadly)

Quote"Sanction" usually means "permanently banned". When you are doing something that is blatantly against the RPG Site's Constitution, you get warned formally, i.e. you get told explicitly that if you keep with whatever shit you're doing you're going to get the axe and should knock it off once and for all. If you persist, you're banned. There are no temporary bans and no half-measures on the RPG Site. Either you're in, or you're out. When you're out, you're out for good.

I was actually rather surprised though, to find no set of rules for the site beyond that Constitution, as I've been aware of several rules enforced here over the years - no posting links to pirate stuff, nothing illegal, no harassing other posters, etc. The racism thing has come up before, and I have seen warnings given for posters who wouldn't stop derailing multiple threads about RPGs with off-topic or personal agenda crap.

I admire your devotion to free speech John Kim, and to a large extent free speech is why I frequent this forum, but at the same time I don't have a problem with drawing the line when it comes to people the community simply doesn't want to associate with, and racists is pretty high on that list. It used to be, though, people with abhorrent views who showed upon this forum would be ridiculed, flamed, and generally denounced strongly until they were driven off in shame. But forsome reason that doesn't seem to be happening now. People talk absolute shit, and it not only passes unremarked upon, it will get kudos from other cretinous slime. The site's got an infection, and the antibodies have become apathetic.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;942283I admire your devotion to free speech John Kim, and to a large extent free speech is why I frequent this forum, but at the same time I don't have a problem with drawing the line when it comes to people the community simply doesn't want to associate with, and racists is pretty high on that list. It used to be, though, people with abhorrent views who showed upon this forum would be ridiculed, flamed, and generally denounced strongly until they were driven off in shame. But forsome reason that doesn't seem to be happening now. People talk absolute shit, and it not only passes unremarked upon, it will get kudos from other cretinous slime. The site's got an infection, and the antibodies have become apathetic.

This sound to me like saying that if social means of control don't go the way we'd like, then we should start up with banning to get people whose viewpoints we desire.

I would prefer the same endpoint - but the way I'd prefer to get there is to stop being apathetic, rather than getting mods to ban the people we don't want.

I don't want viewpoints I desire.

I get those sitting alone.

I join online communities to experience different viewpoints, even those I don't agree with.

Quote from: jhkim;942372This sound to me like saying that if social means of control don't go the way we'd like, then we should start up with banning to get people whose viewpoints we desire.

I would prefer the same endpoint - but the way I'd prefer to get there is to stop being apathetic, rather than getting mods to ban the people we don't want.

Nazism is just a viewpoint too, obviously fighting it is the same as being a Nazi, since you enforce your viewpoint on someone :rolleyes:.

Quote from: Spinachcat;942433I don't want viewpoints I desire.

I get those sitting alone.

I join online communities to experience different viewpoints, even those I don't agree with.

There's a fucking Route 66 length of difference between "viewpoints I don't desire" and "South Africans are genetically determined to be stupider than whites", or "tranny princess in Pathfinder are the worst." And I say that as someone who generally still rolls their eyes at Paizo's tokenism.

For me, there is zero difference.

I equally don't agree with race theory, Pathfinder existing, or people unable to change NPC genders on the fly.

Maybe I'm unique, but I can change Princess Leia's junk without an official supplement.

Quote from: Rincewind1;942578Nazism is just a viewpoint too, obviously fighting it is the same as being a Nazi, since you enforce your viewpoint on someone :rolleyes:.

"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

Personally rather than using "social means of control" I'll just TMPH list somebody.  But four years ago my blood pressure was 161 over 106 so I have no time for stress I can eliminate.

Quote from: Spinachcat;942594"Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

Yes, truly the worst monsters that came in American history were those returning from the battlefields of Omaha, Iwo Jima and Antietam.

Quote from: jhkim;942174I can understand banning deliberate trolling - but that is a subjective judgement. While he wasn't the most insightful poster or anything, 5 Stone Games did post regularly about gaming - and it is at least plausible that his statements were genuine beliefs rather than trolling. As far as I saw, he wasn't particularly disruptive and didn't violate moderator warnings.

He could have been given a warning. If I had been asked beforehand, I would have said to give him a warning first. But it's pretty irrelevant, because I think it was obvious that, like most people who end up banned, 5 stone would have been literally unable to stop doing what he was doing.

Also, he was not banned on the assumption of trolling. On the contrary, he was banned on the assumption that he sincerely believed that shit, and was probably 'toning it down' a bit and not telling us what he REALLY feels.