It is with some distress that I have noticed a tendency towards coarseness of expression among the posters of this site; as well as a neglect of others' feelings. I would like to discuss ways and means of making this site a more comfortable place for people such as women, people of colour, sexual deviants and the disabled.
I have some suggestions of my own, but I wouldn't like to thrust myself forward, possibly coopting other people's ideas before they have a chance to make their voice heard. I'd like to create a space in this thread where we can all examine each others ideas without judging.
What if we don't want an emotionally safe environment?
Paul, I'd really like to hear how you feel about this issue. Could you explain what it is about making others feel comfortable and safe that doesn't appeal to you?
'cuz then it would be somehow wrong to say "Screw you and your ham-fisted satire, droog!"
Oh, and before I forget ....
Screw you and your ham-fisted satire, droog :D
Howsabout this answer? I'm not Paul, mind you; I have my hands full taking care of my own emotional needs. I am not your parent, and I don't want to be your parent. Take care of your own damn emotional comfort. You don't like something I have to say? Well, you have the right to ignore me at your leisure. If you chose to not exercise that right, that is no concern of mine.
None.
I have the right to expose myself to coarse and crude behavior. I do not recognize, nor do I suggest you should possess, the right to abridge my right to expose myself to things you dislike.
I don't give you that power over me. You are not my parent, just as I am not your parent.
Of course, i strongly suspect you are just stirring the shit, which gives you a minor pass on this here. Further, they took away the ATM smily, which gives you a second one, since i can't use it to reinforce my point. Alas.
I think that anytime, and I may be making the faulty assumption you're being serious in your line of questioning, you enforce "hospitality" it is doomed to fail. People are correct in that this board is a privately owned enterprise, and the rest of that nonsense, but the real appeal to these sorts of places isn't in that some dude owns them and is nice enough to share, it's in that these places are a living, breathing entity-with all the good and bad that comes with that.
I also feel that some people thrive on the edge, under pressure-and that some of the most creative things have come from conflict. Conflict is not a bad thing in my book, people who seek to avoid it are though. You can't avoid conflict in real life anymore than you can here-you can pretend, but that sort of pretend isn't healthy.
For a site like this to thrive it can't afford to become too comfortable, too homey. It has to have some fire-now I'd agree it doesn't have to be overwhelming, or constant-but it also shouldn't be canned.
This site has a lot of natural problems-4 separate RPG forums with no clear, or real reason for them to be separate. Another section devoted to two specific groups of Fan Boys-those of us who enjoy occasionally reading the Pundit's Blog re-prints, and apparently some one likes Erick Wujick and Amber. (There's what six of them?) Add in that the off topic area is only just now starting to be looked at as a natural and healthy expression of the natural flow conversation instead of a filthy disease, and that we still have people who think banning people is a reasonable and rational response that also holds the moral high ground-and well I have high hopes for this place eventually.
But neutering it isn't the road I see us using to get there.
Quote from: TonyLBScrew you and your ham-fisted satire, droog :D
Tony, I'm a little hurt that you should choose to express yourself in this way.
Quote from: droogTony, I'm a little hurt that you should choose to express yourself in this way.
Only a
little? Gosh. Now
I'm offended :D
Quote from: droogI have some suggestions of my own, but I wouldn't like to thrust myself forward, possibly coopting other people's ideas before they have a chance to make their voice heard. I'd like to create a space in this thread where we can all examine each others ideas without judging.
You can start by getting rid of the Eric Cartman quote in your .sig. That's gotta be offensive to someone.
Hopefully we can resolve this issue, Tony. I'm starting to feel anxious about our further interaction on these boards.
Spike - that's a really interesting perspective, Spike. I fully respect your right to have it. But you do see, don't you, that such things as that dreadful emoticon you mentioned are offensive to people--offensive enough to make them physically ill. Isn't it a reasonable position to give up small things like obscene smileys so that the more effeminate among us can be safe?
John - I'm very sorry. I had no idea that my sig would offend anybody at all. I"ve changed it, hopefully for something a bit less offensive.
I bow before the master.
I have been served.
Quote from: droogJohn - I'm very sorry. I had no idea that my sig would offend anybody at all. I"ve changed it, hopefully for something a bit less offensive.
That's a huge improvement. Thanks.
more mollycoddling!
everyone is a special snowflake!
:grouphug:
okay, i'm done.
I create my own emotionally-safe environment wherever I go, whatever I do.
It's a little thing I call 'solipsism', and you should thank me for it.
Quote from: droogSpike - that's a really interesting perspective, Spike. I fully respect your right to have it. But you do see, don't you, that such things as that dreadful emoticon you mentioned are offensive to people--offensive enough to make them physically ill. Isn't it a reasonable position to give up small things like obscene smileys so that the more effeminate among us can be safe?
Ah, but see, if you make it emotionally safe for the effeminate, you have to make it emotionally safe for the macho lunkheads who find effeminate people... scary.
Where, oh where, does the madness end?
It doesn't.
Personally? Anyone that needs such mollycoddling is offensive to me, and being told that not only do I have to tolerate such persons, but that I have to do it with a modicum of grace and dignity (that is to say, without tearing into them verbally any damn time I please) is offensive.
Which puts us, suddenly!, on the horns of a dilemma. What is 'protective' of one person is now offensive to another. Why is their value suddenly higher than mine?
Quote from: droogpeople of colour
That's people of col
or, kangaroo boy.
I'm disappointed in you, Spike. We have to support people's need not to be anywhere near nasty things.
And Pierce, such levity has its place, but I'm talking about serious business here.
Quote from: droogIt is with some distress that I have noticed a tendency towards coarseness of expression among the posters of this site; as well as a neglect of others' feelings. I would like to discuss ways and means of making this site a more comfortable place for people such as women, people of colour, sexual deviants and the disabled.
Yeah, the current course of things is in this regard even more retarded than a Nigerian furry bitch.
Quote from: Pierce InverarityThat's people of color, kangaroo boy.
That is languageism against Britishmen/Britishwomen/Britishits!
Maybe we should settle for a neutral French couleur? Generally, I think we should change the board language from English to French to make the site less offensive to Frenchmen/Frenchwomen/Frenchits, while we also set a quota for Frenchmen/Frenchwomen/Frenchits among the moderators to avoid exclusion of this much-repressed minority.
If I wanted an emotionally safe, nanny-state of a forum then I wouldn't be posting here.
Fuck the armchair psychology! Post like you've got a spine!
Sonnuva....
wrong thread.
Quote from: droogCould you explain what it is about making others feel comfortable and safe that doesn't appeal to you?
I'm not responsible for you or your feelings. I literally cannot control them, thus asking me to shepard them is unfair.
Moreover, I didn't notice anything in the TOS, etc., that mentioned this was a site for children. We're all expected, as far as I can see, to be adults. That means being responsible for your own behavior and accepting that others, too, are responsible for theirs.
Seanchai
Quote from: SeanchaiMoreover, I didn't notice anything in the TOS, etc., that mentioned this was a site for children. We're all expected, as far as I can see, to be adults. That means being responsible for your own behavior and accepting that others, too, are responsible for theirs.
But being adult does not mean that we have to welcome or tolerate anything that anyone else claiming to be an adult wants to do.
Why are you all treating this seriously? THIS IS DROOG WE ARE TALKING ABOUT! Droog uses this site as his ironying board. He's just having a bit of his usual mocking fun. Serious Paul belatedly realized it, and a couple others have been playing along since the beginning, but the rest of you seem to be taking Droog at face value. I NEVER take Droog at face value. The more he seems to be talking straight up, the more convinced I am that there's an elaborate joke underneath it all.
-clash
Quote from: John MorrowBut being adult does not mean that we have to welcome or tolerate anything that anyone else claiming to be an adult wants to do.
Anything? No. You don't get to murder, hurt children, etc..
Of course, we're talking about a discussion board. More specifically, protecting a few people from being offended by an emoticon. Personally, I don't feel the need to post those sorts of things, but c'mon...
Seanchai
Quote from: droogIt is with some distress that I have noticed a tendency towards coarseness of expression among the posters of this site; as well as a neglect of others' feelings. I would like to discuss ways and means of making this site a more comfortable place for people such as women, people of colour, sexual deviants and the disabled.
Let me emphasise the part I'm having a problem with:
Quote"The forums should be more Politically Correct."
Quote"sexual deviants"
Feel the hypocrisy?
Quote from: flyingmiceDroog uses this site as his ironying board. He's just having a bit of his usual mocking fun.
Fucking classic!
And fuck you, droog! Shove your "emotionally safe environment" up your ass!
Quote from: SeanchaiOf course, we're talking about a discussion board. More specifically, protecting a few people from being offended by an emoticon. Personally, I don't feel the need to post those sorts of things, but c'mon...
No, I'm not trying to protect a few people from being offended by an emoticon. I'm trying to keep this message board from looking (any more) like RPGPundits home for lawncrappers, mouth breathers, and people who don't have the good sense or good taste not to use obscene emoticons on a public message board. As I said elsewhere, it's kinda hypocritical to be complaining about the lawncrappers in this hobby when you entertain guests squatting in your front lawn, pants around their ankles, with pile of crap under them.
But, hey, the straw man version is more fun, right?
Quote from: droogcolour
FUCK OFF
Quote from: John MorrowI'm trying to keep this message board from looking (any more) like RPGPundits home for lawncrappers, mouth breathers, and people who don't have the good sense or good taste not to use obscene emoticons on a public message board.
Good luck.
Seanchai
Quote from: John MorrowI'm trying to keep this message board from looking (any more) like RPGPundits home for lawncrappers, mouth breathers, and people who don't have the good sense or good taste not to use obscene emoticons on a public message board. As I said elsewhere, it's kinda hypocritical to be complaining about the lawncrappers in this hobby when you entertain guests squatting in your front lawn, pants around their ankles, with pile of crap under them.
Heaven preserve us from selfless people with no motive but the moral improvement of others.
Quote from: droogI have some suggestions of my own, but I wouldn't like to thrust myself forward...
Tee-hee! Typical figurative imagery of the patriarchy.
!i!
Quote from: TonyLBHeaven preserve us from selfless people with no motive but the moral improvement of others.
You guys are really stuck in a rut, aren't you? You should try going into politics.
As a victim of childhood bullying which left me deeply emotionally scarred to this day, I fully support Droogs' emotional-safety initiative. As a show of my support, I've decided to form a special-interest group, a pack if you will, composed of like-minded posters: the Friends Understanding Droog's Gentle Emotions; the F.U.D.G.E-Pack.
By working together, we'll be able to lobby for the changes required to create the emotionally safe space we crave, the warm electronic womb which will be our refuge from jocks, bullies, hot chicks, cops, soldiers, D20 players, Republicans, Americans, and other shitnozzle assclowns.
We will have a special signature, to differentiate us from the less enlightened. I will petition the Mods (we'll need many) to banhammerinate any who use the special signature in a hurtful fashion. A special subforum will also be required, like a safe version of Off Topic; it must have a quirky name.
I am now strongly tempted to change my signature to 'The best FUDGE is whipped.'
:what:
Quote from: laffingboyAs a victim of childhood bullying which left me deeply emotionally scarred to this day...
Whatever, dude. Your avatar intimidates me with its implicit violence, and I resent it deeply.
!i!
Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWhatever, dude. Your avatar intimidates me with its implicit violence, and I resent it deeply.
!i!
Can't you see I'm overcompensating?
Also, the pretty
barista at Starbucks was just totally a bitch to me. Hugs and vibes, please. :(
Quote from: laffingboyBy working together, we'll be able to lobby for the changes required to create the emotionally safe space we crave, the warm electronic womb which will be our refuge from jocks, bullies, hot chicks, cops, soldiers, D20 players, Republicans, Americans, and other shitnozzle assclowns.
Did you ever know that you're my hero,
and everything I would like to be?
I can fly higher than an eagle,
for you are the wind beneath my wings.
TGA
Quote from: laffingboyBy working together, we'll be able to lobby for the changes required to create the emotionally safe space we crave, the warm electronic womb which will be our refuge from jocks, bullies, hot chicks, cops, soldiers, D20 players, Republicans, Americans, and other shitnozzle assclowns.
Isn't one Daily Kos on the internet enough?
Quote from: laffingboyAlso, the pretty barista at Starbucks was just totally a bitch to me. Hugs and vibes, please. :(
Punch her in the ovaries.
Totally.
!i!
Quote from: laffingboyBy working together, we'll be able to lobby for the changes required to create the emotionally safe space we crave, the warm electronic womb which will be our refuge from jocks, bullies, hot chicks, cops, soldiers, D20 players, Republicans, Americans, and other shitnozzle assclowns.
Just where the hell do you think you are?!?!?!?!?
Quote from: laffingboyAlso, the pretty barista at Starbucks was just totally a bitch to me. Hugs and vibes, please. :(
You should kill her and take her stuff.
Quote from: John MorrowIsn't one Daily Kos on the internet enough?
No?
All I can say is that I'm utterly dismayed at some of the attitudes displayed here. laffingboy alone seems to grasp the issue, with his FUDGE-Packer initiative. I must admit that I can barely understand John Morrow's attitude, as I thought he would be pleased at our following through on his ideas.
Quote from: droogAll I can say is that I'm utterly dismayed at some of the attitudes displayed here. laffingboy alone seems to grasp the issue, with his FUDGE-Packer initiative. I must admit that I can barely understand John Morrow's attitude, as I thought he would be pleased at our following through on his ideas.
I think the problem stems from your avatar in which you have a crippled, sorry, a leg challenged man about to be knocked over by a bowling ball. Seems a rather emotionally unsafe avatar to me.
Hypocrite.
Quote from: droogI must admit that I can barely understand John Morrow's attitude, as I thought he would be pleased at our following through on his ideas.
I'll say it once again, for the peanut gallery. My point was not to prevent offense or to save people from their own moral failings. My point concerned the image that this message board presents to the outside world and the sort of people that the image attracts. It's about alienating the nice people and attracting the lawncrappers.
So if you want to argue that we should adopt an offense-free moderation policy in order to attract and retain the sort of participants that you want and drive away those that you don't (I thought the argument against the swastika was pretty good in that regard, by the way), then you'd be following through with my ideas.
Quote from: John MorrowMy point concerned the image that this message board presents to the outside world and the sort of people that the image attracts. It's about alienating the nice people and attracting the lawncrappers.
who cares what image this place presents? it's a fucking messageboard about gaming. the amount of traffic it gets (or any gaming messageboard, when you compare it to the rest of things) is pretty miniscule.
as far as alienating, it's not the special snowflake kind of place. and lawncrappers? that's what an IL is for. :rolleyes:
Quote from: beeberwho cares what image this place presents? it's a fucking messageboard about gaming.
Why do you choose to spend time here rather than, say, RPGnet, ENWorld, The Forge, or Story-Games?
Quote from: beeberthe amount of traffic it gets (or any gaming messageboard, when you compare it to the rest of things) is pretty miniscule.
When the traffic is miniscule, the quality of the traffic matters even more.
Quote from: beeberas far as alienating, it's not the special snowflake kind of place. and lawncrappers? that's what an IL is for. :rolleyes:
I never said it was a "special snowflake kind of place", nor is that what I'm trying to make it.
Quote from: John MorrowWhy do you choose to spend time here rather than, say, RPGnet, ENWorld, The Forge, or Story-Games?
I can't answer for him-and I can only speak to the first two, as I have never had any contact with the other two and have no idea what they're like-, but those places are sissified emotionally neutered places in which a small clique runs the show, and do so poorly.
Add in that they're massive, and crappy, and uglier than even this place is and well I like this better.
I think it's border line repressive around here when people actually mention banning, so you can imagine how I view those places.
Quote from: jeff37923I think the problem stems from your avatar in which you have a crippled, sorry, a leg challenged man about to be knocked over by a bowling ball. Seems a rather emotionally unsafe avatar to me.
How right you are! I have been insensitive!
I hope my new avatar will be acceptable.
Quote from: droogHow right you are! I have been insensitive!
I hope my new avatar will be acceptable.
You know, I think if you just add a line acknowledging your regret for the plight of Australia's aboriginal population (in case anyone takes offense over your land of residency) as a tag line under your username, I think your changes will be pretty much perfect.
Thanks.
ADDED: I applaud the kinder and gentler droog.
Is that all right? I couldn't fit 'Aborigines' in.
Quote from: droogI hope my new avatar will be acceptable.
Now I have nightmares of weird scientists who genesplice people with sun flowers. You insensitive Swin... no, you could be muslim (and we learned from Denmark and Sweden where this leads to). You insensitive doucheb... No, that would be offensive to convinced shower negators. You insensitive wank... No again, offensive against sexually frustrated singles.
Well, you should get the point, and I hope you think with the next avatar about all those people with phobia of genesplices. (And don't use a tree, this could make dendrophobists emotionally unstable.
Generally, I think we should ban all avatars that could trigger one of these phobias listed here (http://www.phobialist.com/) to make the site more easily accessible for the mentally challenged.)
It's so difficult to avoid offense! But I hope you'll agree with me that making the effort to keep up standards is worth it.
Perhaps we should encourage people to volunteer specific insults to be used upon themselves?
!i!
Quote from: droogIs that all right? I couldn't fit 'Aborigines' in.
Oh, my!
Quote from: flyingmiceDroog uses this site as his ironying board. He's just having a bit of his usual mocking fun.
That's pretty good.
Quote from: droogHow right you are! I have been insensitive!
I hope my new avatar will be acceptable.
I will find it acceptable once $20 American is transferred into my PayPal account. That amount of money will cover the hardship that I endured seeing your former avatar.
The new avatar, however, requires an additional $30 American donation to placate me.
Quote from: Serious PaulI can't answer for him-and I can only speak to the first two, as I have never had any contact with the other two and have no idea what they're like-, but those places are sissified emotionally neutered places in which a small clique runs the show, and do so poorly.
Add in that they're massive, and crappy, and uglier than even this place is and well I like this better.
I think it's border line repressive around here when people actually mention banning, so you can imagine how I view those places.
got it in one
Okay, that's enough of that joke. It did something useful for me, at least. Morrow, jeffnumber, go fuck yourselves. I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
Quote from: droogOkay, that's enough of that joke. It did something useful for me, at least. Morrow, jeffnumber, go fuck yourselves. I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
That's what I love about you. You say the sweetest things.
Quote from: droogOkay, that's enough of that joke. It did something useful for me, at least. Morrow, jeffnumber, go fuck yourselves. I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
Aargh! The insensitivity that you are displaying!
That'll be another $50 to my PayPal account for emotional damages, that brings the total up to a nice even $100 you now owe me. :D