In another thread, David R writes:

Quote from: David RI like the idea of Mearls applying these hippie techniques to his regular games. Maybe because I do this often too.

So, folks. Some of us actually have some hippie games on our shelves. Some of us actually play some of them! Or if not play, strip them for parts.

So, would be participants, I put it to you. Which hippy techniques are cool for stealing in other games? In non-forge speak terms, describe what you mean. Don't just tell me "kickers and bangs", tell me what it means.

I like:

Oracles - random character/plot/situation seed generators - yes, random tables have been round a while but it took the hippies to 'bring the awesome' such as in 'In a Wicked Age'.
Keys - character motivations as used in 'The Shadow of Yesterday' - fulfilment tied in with advancement.
Relationship Maps - the ties that bind.....

I'll let someone else explain 'Arenas' 'cause I get told off for mentioning THAT GAME.

Quote from: SeanI like oracles - random character/plot/situation seed generators - yes, random tables have been round a while but it took the hippies to 'bring the awesome'

So, are you saying they actually do bring "awesome" that wasn't there before WRT randome tables? If so, how? How does this differ from using some tables on Seventh Sanctum or the 1e DM Design Kit to brew adventure and character ideas?

Say yes or roll the dice. Obviously works better in games that have rules for rolling the dice but the underlying principle is cool + 1/2.  ((and not entirely new, just expressed so susinctly by Vincent))

I think it's that oracles seem more integral to the characters in these storygames rather than an added feature. Rather than build characters then determine what drives them - have the oracles build the character - the drives/desires/tribulations determine the character created - classic sword and sorcery stuff - CONAN - guy's strong and hard for a reason.


Having WIKIs and loads of contributors towards an online oracle helps. It's the personalized character motivation that D&D players would HAVE to play out in order to advance.

shit, what's the word -'internalised' Wilderlands ?

and I'm partial to:
Bidding/Gambling - I've used it for when players want their characters to steal the limelight/gain control of the narrative during a scene

hmm, I am always surprised at what is considered new and hip...

Codes - Central ideas that define a character. I had these since 1986. Essentially, defined as 3 words (but not limited to three) that define your character's motivations;i.e. Honorable, Samurai, Perfectionist. Meant to replace and expand on alignments.

Karma - Meta-rule points to allow player manipulation of their own rolls, allow re-rolls, and manipulate plot as it applies to characters. I have had this one since about 2003. I think Marvel had this even further back and it might have been where I got the idea.

I am sure there are other parts of my games that are "hippie" but I think I am too close to it...

Oh, maybe my Free Form Magic system? Allows the players to generate "effects" based on three areas of power. So, if you had a Druid whose tribe had power of Water, Mind and Emotions you could create effects that fired chicken, made a man think he was a chicken and scare the crap out of a chicken.

How do they work? Very well. Some I have been using for 20 or more years with thousands of players and no problems.

Bill

But then you tie the Karma/Peanut Butter and the Codes/Chocolate together and pow!

if all these methods are old - why the PH34R, babes ?

Quote from: blakkieBut then you tie the Karma/Peanut Butter and the Codes/Chocolate together and pow!

I believe it was James Skach complaining about getting my Meta in his Game...

Bill

Quote from: Seanif all these methods are old - why the PH34R, babes ?

I have no fear.

I will say, very many indie game conventions turn me off. (Like "fear the GM", "supporting more than one type of player leads to incoherence", etc.)

But the Indie community is not homogeneous, and there are lots of smart folks in the Indie community. And ever some games that have some techniques I disdain can have good things to.

For example, and my contribution to this thread:
Burning Empires, which has the "fear the GM"-ish "let it ride" principle has a very useful technique call instincts. Basically, instincts are pre-defined declarations about what your character would do in given situations. This can give you free rolls or otherwise make sure that your character's behavior is followed without later vocalizing it.

I am actually quite fond of The Riddle of Steel's Spiritual Attributes. It gives bonuses to rolls for things that the character feels strongly about.
The Shadow of Yesterday's Keys is a slightly different application of the same principle (instead of giving bonuses to rolls, giving XP)


EDIT: So for those of us new here, what is meant by "hippies?" Forgies and their "hip" gimmicky mechanics?

Quote from: LancerEDIT: So for those of us new here, what is meant by "hippies?" Forgies and their "hip" gimmicky mechanics?

:heh:

I'm not sure if it began as a forge/indie criticism or a self-depricating bit of humor by indie folks, but some folks call some more out there indie gaming conventions "dirty hippy gaming." Referring, of course, to the US 60's born nonconfomist "hippie" subculture. :shrug:

I like the idea that portions of the character's personality can add to (or even substitute for) dice rolls for skills. This one goes a long way back: the first time I saw it implemented was in Pendragon. Other games that use it are Dogs in the Vineyard, HeroQuest and Burning Wheel, all in slightly different applications.

Some techniques are useful for certain adventure and campaign types, especially for character-driven games and PvP one-shots: R-maps, kickers, bangs and flags.
They won't work for every game, but OTOH neither technique will. And while they probably were in use for a long time before the Forge, the Forgies were the first ones to write it actually down and gave it fancy names for quick reference, so I still give them some props for it.

Rules-wise, I stole TSoYs keys for my current project and twisted them so that they just fuel a nice-to-have resource, not the main source for character advancement as in the exemplar. (The game is still mission-driven, not character-driven - I just wanted a small incentive to play a breathing and interesting character rather than a teflon-coated mission-solving tool.)
My rule for situative advantages (that still must float around here on first or second page) wasn't originally inspired by Forge stuff, but Elliot Wilen pointed out the similarity to Sorcerers tactical boni, and as I own the main rule-book I have to agree to this.

Quote from: HinterWeltI believe it was James Skach complaining about getting my Meta in his Game...

So have you pulled Karma then?