As the Weapon Sizing thread indicates, I'm working on revamping the 3e weapon system to make it suck less.  I'm trying to find a way to make melee combat more interesting without resorting to a bunch of 4e/ToB-style special abilities, so one of the things I'm considering is adding special weapon properties.  In the other thread, I had the following down:

Finesse: You can add your Dexterity modifier to attack and damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier.

Heavy: You add your Constitution bonus to damage rolls you make with this weapon.  (Tentative.)

Thrown: You can throw this weapon with a range increment of 20 feet.

What I've been curious about doing is adding special abilities that trigger on critical hits.  For instance:

Bleeding: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Reflex save or take X amount of damage the next round.

Stunning: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or be stunned until the end of his next turn.

Crippling: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or have his speed reduced to 5 ft. until the end of his next turn.

Cleaving: When you score a critical hit, a secondary opponent within reach automatically takes damage as though you had struck him.

Tactical: When you score a critical hit, you may automatically disarm, trip, or reposition your opponent.  When you reposition your opponent, you can move him five feet for every five points of damage you do to him, and you may move with him as you do so.

Overpowering: When you score a critical hit, you may automatically trip or bull rush your opponent.  When you bull rush your opponent, you can push him back in a straight line five feet for every five points of damage you to do him.

Thoughts?

Cleave: shouldn't trigger on Attacks of Opportunity, or you get Bag of Rats.
 
Tactical: Probably needs a roll to resist being moved. Or at least a size limit or something to stop dwarves battleaxing Colossal dragons back 30ft.

I like Finese and Tactical if you are taliking about whips, mancatchers, sword breakers etc everything else not so much.

Also the weapon system isn't the problem per se the problem is weapon styles.

A system where a PC learns weapon fighting styles as opposed to single weapon type is I think simpler, more flexible and more 'realistic'. Whilst still providing tactical options.

2e starts this with 2 handed, single weapon, weapon and shield and dual wield.
I think you can add more detail to this with staff/spear, fencing, knife fighting, etc ..
If you have 4 or 5 ranks in these styles
Trained
Specialised
Skilled
Master
Grand master

Then you tie special moves etc to the fighting style. The actual weapon is less critical, you can knife fight with a stilleto, a dagger, etc. You can use weapona nd shiled with a mace or an axe etc  Fencing acts like finese with extra damage due to dex (I would actually go for bypassing armour due to dex but that is outside a D&D model), Trained Grand Masters with shield can do bashed add extra AC defense etc etc.

You can add other weapon styles to the system depending on setting, Iajitsu, fighting from horseback, unarmed martial arts, net and trident, etc etc

Heavy really should be tied to Con. That would make more sense for weapons that had a set versus charge component. (Spears can add Con bonus as damage and To hit against charging enemies, or something similar.)

Heavy should apply to Strength, but Heavy may also be Slow (modified number of attacks/initiative depending on your feel.)

You could try something like the Brutal attribute from the 4e adventurers vault.

Brutal X: Reroll damage dice that come up X or lower.

Quote from: B.T.;511675As the Weapon Sizing thread indicates, I'm working on revamping the 3e weapon system to make it suck less.  I'm trying to find a way to make melee combat more interesting without resorting to a bunch of 4e/ToB-style special abilities, so one of the things I'm considering is adding special weapon properties.  In the other thread, I had the following down:

Finesse: You can add your Dexterity modifier to attack and damage rolls instead of your Strength modifier.

Heavy: You add your Constitution bonus to damage rolls you make with this weapon.  (Tentative.)

Thrown: You can throw this weapon with a range increment of 20 feet.

What I've been curious about doing is adding special abilities that trigger on critical hits.  For instance:

Bleeding: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Reflex save or take X amount of damage the next round.

Stunning: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or be stunned until the end of his next turn.

Crippling: When you score a critical hit, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or have his speed reduced to 5 ft. until the end of his next turn.

Cleaving: When you score a critical hit, a secondary opponent within reach automatically takes damage as though you had struck him.

Tactical: When you score a critical hit, you may automatically disarm, trip, or reposition your opponent.  When you reposition your opponent, you can move him five feet for every five points of damage you do to him, and you may move with him as you do so.

Overpowering: When you score a critical hit, you may automatically trip or bull rush your opponent.  When you bull rush your opponent, you can push him back in a straight line five feet for every five points of damage you to do him.

Thoughts?

So basically you're adding feats into weapons as magical properties? Or are these mundane properties? Will they add to the magical bonus of the weapons to determine price and value? Are they specialized construction methods or designs?

And since Con is a measure of your constitution, your fitness, why is Heavy using Con, since the weight of the weapon would be more attuned to Strength instead?

And how will just adding more feats on the weapons make combat more interesting? How is adding more magical/mundane abilities to weapons going to make the weapons suck less?

Quote from: T-Willard;512401So basically you're adding feats into weapons as magical properties? Or are these mundane properties? Will they add to the magical bonus of the weapons to determine price and value? Are they specialized construction methods or designs?

Mundane properties that are automatically figured into the weapons.

QuoteAnd since Con is a measure of your constitution, your fitness, why is Heavy using Con, since the weight of the weapon would be more attuned to Strength instead?

From a gamist perspective:

1. To encourage dwarves to use those weapons.
2. To give them a slightly higher damage output.

From an in-character perspective: a barrel-chested lumberjack wielding an axe should get more out of it than a prettyboy with a swimmer's build.

QuoteAnd how will just adding more feats on the weapons make combat more interesting? How is adding more magical/mundane abilities to weapons going to make the weapons suck less?

Because it lets fighters inflict status effects.