I have mixed feelings regarding GURPS, however the big take away from that system I liked was the way the 3d6 was handled.

I like the  distribution for the same reasons I like the 2d6, but it's larger so that other aspects of the curve present themselves. for example 3d6 averages pretty hard on roughly 10.5 or there about, this is notable as it adds an element of diminishing returns to having scores over 14, but not so harshly that doubling down wasn't an option.

struck me as a good medium between permitting specialists and generalists.

The mechanic I had in mind

Basically damage is calculated by margin of success/failure, for example if a fighter has a weapon skill of 10 total, and they roll 8 on 3d6, that means they do 2 damage + weapon damage. Or if they rolled 12 they'd do -2  damage + weapon damage.

This means that even if you're kind of doing shotty, you're still doing some damage, and makes even moderate or novice warriors deadly if hit point inflation in kept down like in most OSR systems.

for attributes in this system I don't know how I want to devise them, but I was thinking something ranged from -5 to +5 on the average human spectrum, so -5 means you're pretty handicap in that area, +5 being you're peak human in that area.

GURPS and fantasy trip handled this by making 10 be the base for the stat, with 0 and 20 the extreme ends of human ability. but made skills have a range of default negatives you had to buy off.

I'm not sure if the -5 to +5 range makes sense or not.

The biggest problem with probability curve systems like GURPS is that the margin means different things at different points. An average person, with Speed 5, gaining a +1 Dodge, increases their chances from jack shit to just crap. But someone with Speed 7, and Combat Reflexes, going from 8 to 9 is actually an improvement to the point you might gamble on making that Dodge.

So, if you design your game around a margin of success, there will be break points where a numerical edge can be overwhelming, and other places where a difference doesn't make a difference. 

In GURPS, easy weapon skills default to DX - 4, which gives decent numbers for adventurers with DX 11 to 14 or so. But for an average person, DX -4 is 6 or less, or 4 out of 216 chance of landing a hit. Unless someone makes an All-Out Attack, two amateur swordsmen could stand there for minutes fruitless trying to hit each other without success. Which, as I probably don't have to point out, is not what happens in a fight between two determined people with swords, of any skill level.

Quote from: pawsplay on January 13, 2024, 03:57:39 PM
The biggest problem with probability curve systems like GURPS is that the margin means different things at different points. An average person, with Speed 5, gaining a +1 Dodge, increases their chances from jack shit to just crap. But someone with Speed 7, and Combat Reflexes, going from 8 to 9 is actually an improvement to the point you might gamble on making that Dodge.

So, if you design your game around a margin of success, there will be break points where a numerical edge can be overwhelming, and other places where a difference doesn't make a difference. 

In GURPS, easy weapon skills default to DX - 4, which gives decent numbers for adventurers with DX 11 to 14 or so. But for an average person, DX -4 is 6 or less, or 4 out of 216 chance of landing a hit. Unless someone makes an All-Out Attack, two amateur swordsmen could stand there for minutes fruitless trying to hit each other without success. Which, as I probably don't have to point out, is not what happens in a fight between two determined people with swords, of any skill level.

I think that's why I mentioned the margin of success in my post of what I desire to attempt, failing only reduces damage, I wouldn't have it to where one simply misses, unless they literally do no damage.

I think the other thing is, in real life at least skills tend to actually plateau at certain stages, and certainly more so on the high end of skills, diminishing returns and all that.

Quote from: Socratic-DM on December 27, 2023, 07:29:29 PM
I have mixed feelings regarding GURPS, however the big take away from that system I liked was the way the 3d6 was handled.

I like the  distribution for the same reasons I like the 2d6, but it's larger so that other aspects of the curve present themselves. for example 3d6 averages pretty hard on roughly 10.5 or there about, this is notable as it adds an element of diminishing returns to having scores over 14, but not so harshly that doubling down wasn't an option....

GURPS and fantasy trip handled this by making 10 be the base for the stat, with 0 and 20 the extreme ends of human ability. but made skills have a range of default negatives you had to buy off.

I'm not sure if the -5 to +5 range makes sense or not.

Actually, the base stat is 8 in The Fantasy Trip.

Quote from: pawsplay on January 13, 2024, 03:57:39 PM
The biggest problem with probability curve systems like GURPS is that the margin means different things at different points. An average person, with Speed 5, gaining a +1 Dodge, increases their chances from jack shit to just crap. But someone with Speed 7, and Combat Reflexes, going from 8 to 9 is actually an improvement to the point you might gamble on making that Dodge.

In the 3d6 system, a stat of 5 is well below average.  7 is below average and 6 is pitiful.

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 02, 2024, 10:33:57 PM
Actually, the base stat is 8 in The Fantasy Trip.

The least stat for a human is 8.
You left out the 8 extra points.

from In The Labyrinth: "If the figure is human, it starts with 8 ST, 8 DX, 8 IQ, and 8 EXTRA points to be allotted between any or all of these attributes,
as the player chooses. Thus, each human figure begins with a total of 32 points - for instance, 9 ST, 12 DX, and 11 IQ"

In Melee the fighters were more above average: "A human figure starts with 8 ST, 8 DX, and 8 extra points to be allotted as the player chooses.
Thus, each figure begins with a total of 24 points - 13 to ST and 11 to DX, or any other combination adding to 24.
Neither ST nor DX may begin at less than 8 for a human figure."

Wizard added IQ but the amount of extra points did not increase. That continued in the full Role-Playing game In The Labyrinth.

Quote from: Melichor on February 03, 2024, 01:55:25 PM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on February 02, 2024, 10:33:57 PM
Actually, the base stat is 8 in The Fantasy Trip.

The least stat for a human is 8.
You left out the 8 extra points.

from In The Labyrinth: "If the figure is human, it starts with 8 ST, 8 DX, 8 IQ, and 8 EXTRA points to be allotted between any or all of these attributes,
as the player chooses. Thus, each human figure begins with a total of 32 points - for instance, 9 ST, 12 DX, and 11 IQ"

In Melee the fighters were more above average: "A human figure starts with 8 ST, 8 DX, and 8 extra points to be allotted as the player chooses.
Thus, each figure begins with a total of 24 points - 13 to ST and 11 to DX, or any other combination adding to 24.
Neither ST nor DX may begin at less than 8 for a human figure."

Wizard added IQ but the amount of extra points did not increase. That continued in the full Role-Playing game In The Labyrinth.

Yes, the base stat is 8, and a character has 8 base points for all stats, plus 8 points to assign to any stat he chooses.But 8 is the base.  A player can assign the 8 extra points to only one or two stats, or assign only 1 point to one or two of the stats, and not reach 10.  Spells' complexity begins at 8.  A warrior from Melee is assumed to have 8 IQ in a game with Wizards (adding to the 24 points for STR and DEX as you described, to make 32).  10 is typical as a starting point, because it gives players a 50% change of success for his character.  It's recommended that a character has at least 10 of any stat, but 8 is the starting point for all three stats before adding allocated points.