I am working on the setting section of Sertorius and making some decisions in terms of content/organization. Part of that is what to exclude. I am wondering if there are entries people feel detract from a game. Are there things you just don't want RPG settings to include?

I should note this is for a game I intend to publish and responses could inform the content.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;650450I am wondering if there are entries people feel detract from a game. Are there things you just don't want RPG settings to include?

All of it

In truth, this is an odd question. An author should include what he wants, and nothing that he doesn't want.

For my part...

The only thing I've ever encountered in a setting* that I disliked was modern politics clouding the past. For example, Deadlands where an never-ending Civil War and a world corrupted by evil resulted in the end of racism and sexism. Same with too much of Shadowrun.

Beh.

If a part of the world is disgusting to the author, it's best to just leave it out completely rather than wish it away. Let the buyer decide what to do with it.



Edit: *I should note that I only talking about settings that I would otherwise like. Truth to be told, there's not that many. But it is generally not because they decided to included this or that.

Ummm... For me? Don't lock everything down. Leave space for group level creativity. Use examples rather than infodumps. Basically, use a broad brush and don't sweat the details.

I will bet that runs directly contrary to what the people out there actually want though!

-clash

I don't want an assembled world. I want a way to assemble the world from parts.

Pile it on, the more the merrier. I mean that, lots of setting information please, if I don't like bits I can change it myself but it's much easier to change things than to come up with them in the first place. More monster manuals, more spells, more histories, more almanacs, more weather patterns, more politics, more iconic characters, more! Any hack can wheel out a few paragraphs of worldbuilding, what distinguishes a professional are the details.

The things that always annoy me the most are the things that have clearly been done in a rush because the writer felt they were needed; but was not actually interested enough to think through.

Item prices tend to fall into this category a lot; because as a writer its just a dull list - but for the GM and players it crops up every session.

Weather patterns/geography can often fall into this category as well. In a fantasy setting its fine to have a glacier in the middle of a lake of lava, but you should probably have at least *some* explanation thought out.

So yes, proving Clash's point, basically *do* sweat the details.

Oh god yes, no in-setting prose either.

I'm a sucker for maps and floorplans, but you were asking what NOT to include... hm, in-setting prose.

It really depends what kind of game it's for, and what scale the setting is at.

Personally, I'd like a "zooming in" approach. The world, a specific nation in that world, a specific region in that nation, and a specific city in that region (maybe a specific dungeon if your game does that) All getting roughly the same page count. As an example mostly suited to fantasy. You could also zoom in through governments organizations and individuals, empires planets and spaceports, etc. And it can be three in each instead of one in each or whatever works. You get the idea.

Likes: maps, see Harn. Nitty gritty detail, population levels, location names, etc., see Harn, the first Greyhawk module, Citystate, etc. Also, interesting cultures and beings, see Talislanta, Jorune.


Dislikes: metaplot, detailed characters, political relationships between NPCs, etc.

The first are things that I can reference to make my life easier as a GM and stir the creative juices, the second are things I'll come up with on my own and don't need preconceptions about and that tend to inhibit my creativity.

Shopping lists, soap opera recent history, and obscure ancient history. Oddly enough ephemera works great as rumor grist.

Shopping Lists: unless there's something notable and no obvious appraise value, don't give me reams of inventory and prices. It's easier to categorize things by time and place and tack on % mark up. So i.e. Roman Age goods, with North African emphasis, general markdown of 5%.

Soap Opera Recent History: Anything resembling 2e integration of novel main characters' heroics into the setting. Gloss if you must, but spare us the blow-by-blow breakdown with all 20+ proper names. At best place it as an aside, "Drizzt saved this kingdom and left a LG Halfling in charge during the Flatulence Wars in XYZ novel, if you so choose to incorporate."

Obscure Ancient History: a little goes a long way, and really the more well-known ancient history should be interesting enough. Knowing what vizier peed on which ambassador's shoe so as to prevent the marriage between two ancient lost kingdoms which gave rise to the saying, "pissing to prevent the bastard," is total TMI. That's flavor which should be left to GMs.

Ephemera like "Amplebottom makes the best fatcakes this side of the Shire. And on every third Sunday she fills them with sweetmeats and dandy plums!" though silly and forgettable actually pull double duty as rumor mill grist. They end up as rumors and flavor that can later end up as quests or even recurring NPCs. They also impart a sense of cultural attitudes without lengthy, dry explanation. Sprinkle a bit in.

Fuck timelines.

If I see a timeline at any point in a book it goes straight to my "sell" pile. Do not pass go, do not get played.

Quote from: gleichman;650454All of it

In truth, this is an odd question. An author should include what he wants, and nothing that he doesn't want.

I am working within a word count requirement because I need to set price and page count well before release and the amount of material I want to include would exceed this. I want to get some feedback on what people don't find helpful in terms of content to keep in the back of my mind when I make editorial decisions on this.

QuoteFor my part...

The only thing I've ever encountered in a setting* that I disliked was modern politics clouding the past. For example, Deadlands where an never-ending Civil War and a world corrupted by evil resulted in the end of racism and sexism. Same with too much of Shadowrun.

How do you feel about fantasy settings in this respect? I've already established the content of my setting, but just curious if this matters to you in a purely fantastic setting with no connection to our own world. I generally dont worry about real world history but try take the setting's history seriously (if it makes sense for slavery to be common.

Quote from: Piestrio;650512Fuck timelines.

If I see a timeline at any point in a book it goes straight to my "sell" pile. Do not pass go, do not get played.

Then you probably won't like this product. I have a historical timeline (primarily just to make it easy to see the history at a glance) as well as a vague chart of potential future events (which is largely there because we have a few spells allowing time travel and i figured it may be helpful for some GMs).

Quote from: Opaopajr;650509Shopping lists, soap opera recent history, and obscure ancient history. Oddly enough ephemera works great as rumor grist.

Shopping Lists: unless there's something notable and no obvious appraise value, don't give me reams of inventory and prices. It's easier to categorize things by time and place and tack on % mark up. So i.e. Roman Age goods, with North African emphasis, general markdown of 5%.

Soap Opera Recent History: Anything resembling 2e integration of novel main characters' heroics into the setting. Gloss if you must, but spare us the blow-by-blow breakdown with all 20+ proper names. At best place it as an aside, "Drizzt saved this kingdom and left a LG Halfling in charge during the Flatulence Wars in XYZ novel, if you so choose to incorporate."

Obscure Ancient History: a little goes a long way, and really the more well-known ancient history should be interesting enough. Knowing what vizier peed on which ambassador's shoe so as to prevent the marriage between two ancient lost kingdoms which gave rise to the saying, "pissing to prevent the bastard," is total TMI. That's flavor which should be left to GMs.

Ephemera like "Amplebottom makes the best fatcakes this side of the Shire. And on every third Sunday she fills them with sweetmeats and dandy plums!" though silly and forgettable actually pull double duty as rumor mill grist. They end up as rumors and flavor that can later end up as quests or even recurring NPCs. They also impart a sense of cultural attitudes without lengthy, dry explanation. Sprinkle a bit in.

Note to self: remove "The Pissing Contest of al-Fashal" from the history chapter.

I studied history in college so I do tend to write my history sections like histry books (so tends to be a bit dry). What I tried to do to make things more manageable for readers is divide the history section into two parts: history in broad strokes (which should be enough for most people) and a section giving more detailed histories of the major powers and regions.

Quote from: beejazz;650503It really depends what kind of game it's for, and what scale the setting is at.

Personally, I'd like a "zooming in" approach. The world, a specific nation in that world, a specific region in that nation, and a specific city in that region (maybe a specific dungeon if your game does that) All getting roughly the same page count. As an example mostly suited to fantasy. You could also zoom in through governments organizations and individuals, empires planets and spaceports, etc. And it can be three in each instead of one in each or whatever works. You get the idea.

It's a fantasy setting with a focus on spell spellcasters.