OK, so over on this thread I came up with the idea that murder mystery dinner party games (of the "How to Host a Murder" variety) could be a potential lead-in to RPGs, and Koltar concurred - but pointed out that many don't provide ways to continue playing with the same characters. I came up with some thoughts on how that might work - what do people here think?

Here's my take on how it would work, for those of you who weren't wading through the other thread:

- Sell it as a boxed set with three games in it, each of which could potentially be played as a conventional murder mystery dinner game. That way people can pick it up thinking "wow, three murder mystery games in one package - what great value!", and if they turn out to be utterly disinterested in the RPG angle they don't feel cheated.

- Have the first one be an entirely conventional one - all the characters are in the same location in-game, which is assumed to be the location of the dinner party, and the game is assumed to be based mainly in conversation and little in the way of action. Throw in all the serving tips for the meal and so forth which you normally get with those games, and pitch it at groups of, say, around 5 to 7 people - large enough for a dinner party, small enough for an RPG group.

- Have the second one be a slightly experimental one. A few of the same characters turn up in this one (but not all of them - the murderer and the victims have to change, obviously). Suggest running it as a buffet-style dinner over 2 to 4 rooms in the house (perhaps include the garden) - don't forget to include recipes for buffet food! Each room is considered to be a geographically distinct location - say, the dining room is the banquet hall an embassy, the living room is the lounge of a nearby hotel, and the garden is a public park close to the two. Establish the idea of the party host as a mediator as opposed to someone actively playing a character. Each character gets a printed card with special abilities on them, so that there can be more "action" involved. For example, a doctor might have a card like this:

FORENSICS SPECIALIST

If you are able to spend two minutes doing nothing else but examining a murder victim and conversing with anybody nearby, you may find evidence those without medical training may overlook. Show the Party Host this card when you intend to use this ability and they will time the two minutes and give you the extra information.

- The third adventure comes in two formats, the "Expert Sleuths" version and the "Casual Snoops" version (both of which include catering tips!). The "Casual Snoops" version is for those people who aren't inclined to add more abstraction to this type of game (and therefore probably wouldn't be inclined to play a tabletop) - it presents a simplified form of the Expert scenario along similar lines to the second adventure.

The "Expert Sleuths" one is essentially a simple tabletop game, complete with resolution mechanics and subsystems for combat and investigation. This time, all of the PCs are surviving characters from the first two games who turned out not to be murderers; the scenario utilises the tabletop format to present exciting possibilities beyond the scope of the dinner party setting of the previous two games - nationwide manhunts, nail-biting shootouts with mobsters, and total freedom of action on the part of the PCs. At the end of the booklet there are rules and advice for character advancement and coming up with new investigations, as well as character gen rules to generate original characters.

Stuff the box with props for the three adventures, and you're there.

How did I miss this post ?

 Thats a Great idea.

...now if someone will just make that and distribute it....

- Ed C.

Ok, this one isn't live action (or pen and paper), but...

This online detective rpg does implement a game system very similar to what you are talking about:
http://www.playsleuth.com : SLEUTH: Mystery RPG

PCs start as a stereotypical detective archtype (reformed burglar, disgruntled cop, retired doctor etc). Character development opens up skills that improve your ability to analyze evidence, coerce suspects, etc.

I like the idea of character training giving you an edge rather than measuring your overall ability.

Any of you writer/designer types do any work on this ??


Its still a damn good idea.


- Ed C.

I run a Murder Mystery company that puts on MMs at hotels and the like, I ahve run 60+ MMs over the last 12 years normally for 50 or more guests.
I think there are some legs to the idea but I don't necessarily think that the move from MMs to RPGs is likely.
The problem is the demographics. MMs appeal to a dramatic extroverted type, in a similar way to Amature Dramatics clubs. These groups have lots of women and very few young men (if you want good odds of meeting women guys ..). The RPG demographic tends to be more intoverted and male because , and this is odd, the process of sitting down with a pizza and some dice and pretending to be Sir Rudolph Valentine the international Jewel thief and sitting down dressed in a Tux to dinner and pretending to be Sir Rudolph Valentine seem to be totally at odds.
It's my experience that men don't enjoy or participate in MMs as much as women and it's also my experience that for the women its all about the frock.

Quote from: jibbajibba;350756I run a Murder Mystery company that puts on MMs at hotels and the like, I ahve run 60+ MMs over the last 12 years normally for 50 or more guests.
I think there are some legs to the idea but I don't necessarily think that the move from MMs to RPGs is likely.
The problem is the demographics. MMs appeal to a dramatic extroverted type, in a similar way to Amature Dramatics clubs. These groups have lots of women and very few young men (if you want good odds of meeting women guys ..). The RPG demographic tends to be more intoverted and male because , and this is odd, the process of sitting down with a pizza and some dice and pretending to be Sir Rudolph Valentine the international Jewel thief and sitting down dressed in a Tux to dinner and pretending to be Sir Rudolph Valentine seem to be totally at odds.
It's my experience that men don't enjoy or participate in MMs as much as women and it's also my experience that for the women its all about the frock.

Maybe it could transition better to LARP style roleplaying... I mean you are already halfway there.

Quote from: ConanMK;350759Maybe it could transition better to LARP style roleplaying... I mean you are already halfway there.

It would. There might be some ploting issues. In a typical MM there are say 10 suspects and 1 is the murderer and 1 the victim. You also have an investigative lead who guides the process. In an in house game this will be the host who also is a suspect in my hotel based ones there will be a detective who I guess acts as a kind of GM and directs the investigation business.
Now if you brought the characters back for a sequel the background secrets that were expoised in act 1 would already be exposed so you end up having to construct a timeline gap and adding more background to the gap that feeds the next investigation. If you do this a couple of times it feels a little false a bit like Scream 3 and the more characters you maintain the falser it gets.

But it still might be possible.

Quote from: jibbajibba;350763Now if you brought the characters back for a sequel the background secrets that were expoised in act 1 would already be exposed so you end up having to construct a timeline gap and adding more background to the gap that feeds the next investigation. If you do this a couple of times it feels a little false a bit like Scream 3 and the more characters you maintain the falser it gets.

But it still might be possible.

I don't think that maintaining the same characters would be a problem under the right premise.

Example: The characters belong to a powerful and decadent secret society that all but runs the world. With so much at stake, intrigue and assassination are commonplace during their meetings.

Granted someone more familiar with LARP and Hosted Murder Mysteries could probably come up with something better.

I partially both agree and disagree with the recent response posts.

Since the original batch of posts about this - I've seen more customers in the store, overheard more conversations and been asked more questions about RPGs.

This past Sunday, there was a middle-aged woman (okay maybe mid-30s to early 50s) browsing/shopping with her male friend and she asked me to explain D&D and Role playing Games in general to her. I did a pretty good job of it, I thought.

Now the thing is, I honestly forgot that we had some Murder Mystery type games in the front of the store. She started talking to me while I was on my lunch break and I was sitting at our game tables near the D&D books and terrain table.

She was honestly interested and wanted it all explained it to her.

She seemed to wonder why adults do this stuff - what the appeal is.

 At one point she asked "So, its mostly a form of lets pretend around a table?" ME: "Yes, it is but the game part comes in when the idea of chance or fate comes into all."
I did my usual LETHAL WEAPON or Cop movie analogy with her. She got that idea. (Baby Boomer age folks or just younger than that usually do)

Right before she left, she grabnbed a copy of GURPS Lite - mainly because it had that cursory glossary of RPG terms on the front of it and it was Free.

I'm telling you dcesigner/writer types - There IS an undercurrent or yearning of mamny of these people or that age bracket to try something like role-playing games - but the geek/nerd stigma cliche or association may be holding them back.

Now , IF something like a Murder Mystery Dinner Game - the kind Decipher used to make and University Games currently does could transition them into an ongoing RPG campaign - then  I think a new market could be opened up.


- Ed C.

I have known several LARP groups that have used continuing characters.  In fact, the IFGS is an national organization which is essentially a LARP / Boffer RPG where you gain levels Old School style.

I also have hosted many LARPS and jibbajabba is dead-on.   Extrovert dudes and cosplay chicks LOVE the MM/LARP stuff.   For them, the rules / paperwork / dice / minis of RPGs is slow and dull and doesn't excite them like the MM/LARP interactions.

...Okay...Getting away from the "LARP" thing ....

Anyone else had  any good ideas on how to merge the "Murder Mystery" idea with a regular continuing Role Playing Game?


- Ed C.

Interestingly, when we designed our first game, we had a thought of writing adventures with the idea that they would be centered around not just the dinner table, but dinner itself.

A big adventure would be planned for a full-scale meal--with included recipes for the evening.

A smaller adventure around a lunch/brunch/light meal concept.

A quick one-shot around a (fairly elaborate) snack.

Our idea was that the social community of getting together and sharing food be included in the roleplaying experience.

*sigh* ...and if the game had actually sold enough to pay for the publishing costs, we might've moved forward with the idea.

Cool ideas...doing it LARP style seems the better way to go as MM stuff is more towards that spectrum IMO.
It could work for a RPG approach as well...you will have to test it out both ways to see!

Intrestingly enough, I ran a RIFTS: Japan game at a recent Con, that starts with a murder mystery.

I tried to set it up so that no one, even I as the GM, knew who did it. The results were mixed; everyone seemed to enjoy it (several players mentioned it was a novel concept for a game), but it did feel a little disjointed to me, as the GM (and, for the record, my guess as to the killer was wrong).

Getting ready to run it again in 2 weeks at KublaCon, I think I'm going to go more of a Clue route, setting up three sets of cards (who did it, weapon of choice, where they disposed the guard's body).

Each character also has a person they'll protect, and a person they despise. Players cannot outright lie, but they don't have to reveal the whole truth, either.