Yeah, I was there. And actually, I don't think of the Threefold as a good thing in itself, more as an antidote to the arguments that Berkman started. And in fact I think I dropped out of rgfa partly because of the over-systematization and flights of theoretical fancy...not to mention that the Threefold led to GNS...so I don't view it as an unalloyed good, not by any means. Besides, other gamer-taxonomy approaches had already been published (e.g. Blacow), and it's not as if discussions of preference hadn't already occurred on the Usenet as e.g. this thread that I like to bring up from time to time.

In fact Berkman's obtuseness, linked to his creator's-hubris in evangelizing for his game, might be partly responsible for the excesses of GDS, as people split hairs in an effort to overcome what were, on the face of it, some pretty ridiculous claims.

The need people feel to defend, even when not attacked, on both sides does more damage than anything else.

Take this thread, I did not attack the Forge, I didn't even particularly have the Forge in mind when I posted this.  I was actually thinking primarily of a discussion I had seen on Storygames where Mike Mearls and Paul Czege made similar arguments in response to some game design competitions that were run there.

However, I got comments back eventually about how I should get terms right if I was going to attack the Forge, which I hadn't.

It goes both ways, someone starts a thread about their deep love of say Burning Wheel, and then someone feels the need to defend D&D because they think it's somehow being attacked, sometimes it's not even been mentioned before the defences start coming into the thread.

Anyway, thread drift happens, but for me this thread has been effectively killed due to an argument about semantics and a defence of a website I didn't even have particularly in mind when posting.  I have no idea how much game design is currently being done at the Forge, my impression was it was mostly now Storygames and the blogosphere, for better or worse the indie gaming scene although Forge derived has grown far beyond that and I'm not especially persuaded the Forge is as important to that scene as it once was.

But no doubt someone will perceive that as an attack too, just like if someone posts saying they think the mainstream gaming industry is in trouble someone always takes that as an attack on their gaming preferences.

Sometimes an observation is just an observation, I buy and play Forge inspired/indie/thematic/story/whatever games, if I post about them then part of my perspective comes from the fact I am genuinely interested in how they do as I am one of the people who buy and play them.  Of course, the general insistence that one must take sides makes that actually less practical as time goes on.

I don't see how you could divide the site itself from the topic of the thread; considering that if there is an "Indie glut" its undoubtedly the Forge that has brought it about.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Abyssal MawPersonally, I think more diversity would be great. Overwhelming diversity. Let a thousand flowers bloom and all that. Surely the best ones will rise up to the top, right? Enrich our multi-hued rainbow of choices. By all means, please go about doing this. I am not being sarcastic or ironic, either.

But for gods sake.

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE.

You aren't beat poets, rock stars, moral theosophers, or psychologists and you shutting the fuck up saves me the trouble of pointing that shit out. Just produce the game, make the goddamn thing available, and then .. I dunno.. disappear.

So here's one vote in favor of diversity! Glut or not!

I am Imperator and I support this post.

QuoteI am Imperator and I support this post.

Then we are of the same opinion.

Quote from: SettembriniThen we are of the same opinion.

Great!