Okay, as usual, folks are encouraged to give their take on what is and how to run The Crawl

Okay, reminds us why we're here - Probably the second (more on the first later) most important thing I've learn't from running DC. Why the players need to go into the dungeon? It's totaly up to them. Something happened along the way that lead them to this point. What it was who cares ...well they do, but my point is that they are here and ready to go.

Now, when I'm talking about dungeons, I'm taking about any kind of activity where you have to explore some dark, dank place for whatever reason. So, maybe you have got to rescue the noblewoman's errant son from the sodomizing bandits. Or you have to stop a Necromancer whose seen the Re-animator way to often. The point is there is an enclosed space, and the pcs have to explore it....

A couple of things. First, my dungeons aren't populated by numerous monsters. If there are unintelligent monsters in the place, they would have made their space part of their territory and hence would defend it, but would not run around chasing the pcs - unless of course that kind of behaviour was part of their nature....

Also, I don't do random encounter tables. Okay, if the pcs are mounting a rescue operation, the BigBad's guards would make their usual rounds, but if the pcs had time to scope out the operation they would be aware of their routine (maybe) So, there is a fairly consistent logic behind the dungeons I like to run.

Also because of the way how I run things, there really is no "the deeper the level, the more dangerous the critters" - I always prefered littering the "dungeon" depending on the curcimstances with various encounters which would fit into the scene. For example, a rescue mission featuring a deranged wizard would have experiments which had escaped from captivity being chased by the wizard's apprentices. Rival wizards hoping to settle a score etc.

The great thing about DC is that the adventure is contained. I don't have to worry about many things. The players have a goal, and all I have to do, is arrange for interesting things to happen along the way. Also, since I am dealing with an enclosed area, it's much easier to handle.

Separation anxiety - Now, some GMs because of the way how certain systems handle combat and the like, worry, that when the players separate, things could get fataly out of hand. Now, this is a problem. For instance, if the pcs get separated into two groups, they may be able to handle encounters thrown at them. But a lone pc facing off against whatever becomes a problem, real fast.

Now, my players are the kind of folks that take it as it comes. If one of them through the course of the adventure gets separated from the rest, well they will try to find/rescue the character but as players, they don't get upset, even if separation could mean death.

But it really doesn't have to end in death. If they are facing off against intelligent creatures surrender is always an option. Some of my players are cut from the Chevy Chase school of heroism so when alone/outnumbered and confronted they would probably do the  "Hey here's my sister...she's got some elf blood in her...but don't worry although her ears point up, she does go down...."  routine.

Off course when dealing with monsters, the running away screaming like Ned Flanders is always an option. Separation builds character not to mention great roleplaying opportunities.

Atmosphere trumps all else - The most important thing I've learn't about DC is creating an atmosphere that suits whatever mission the players are on. If I create/sustain the right kind of atmosphere, even if the adventure is a little contived or railroady, the pcs will be more than happy to play along.

There's this great adventure, from Dungeon Mag some time back. The basic set up, was that the pcs were travelling by ship and they come across another ship whose crew members went missing in this deserted village on this spooky island. The players had to go find these crewmen. The bad news was that this lesser demon was trapped in this village, and the pcs were walking into an "Alien" like confrontation.

It was a blast to run. Even though in a straight up fight, the pcs would have probably won, the good stuff was being tracked by this mysterious presence while they explored the ruins of the village. There was practically no treasure, and no other creatures to fight, but the mood was so oppresive  - being picked off, or rather being in an attempt to pick you off one by one - finally got to the pcs and they were screaming for a straight up fight. Good times

So, atmosphere is freakin' important in DC. Now, off course, what I've just described, is of no use, when talking about super dungeons and the like. I've got very little experince running those kinds of dungeons. This is the way how I run my Crawls...

Regards,
David R

One trick that I've used to good effect is something I've come to call "Stargate Syndrome."

In Stargate: SG-1, there is a common motif of the heroes creeping around some alien dungeon, hiding from passels of guards.  They hide, they hide, they hide.  They gather information.  When they do strike at some guards, it is usually from ambush and almost invariably successful.  They do this for specific strategic reasons, and only when they have no other choice.

When they get jumped by guards, or cornered, it always goes badly.  People go down, they make an inglorious retreat, and sometimes they're outright captured.

I like that style, in many cases.  Basically, it moves the conflict against the dungeon a step back:  the conflict is to maintain control over when and where fights happen.  The side that gets to initiate the fight, at the time and place of their choosing, usually wins.

It can make for very tense game-play without the sort of overwhelming force that deprives players of choices.  If you've got four hobgoblins wandering by, and your group is hidden in a side-chamber ... well, you could kill those hobgoblins easy, but you're still tense, because being forced to engage those hobgoblins would be the first little skid down the slippery slope of losing control ... sure, first you're forced into a fight with four hobgoblins, but then that has consequences that force you into another fight you'd rather avoid, and so on, and eventually you've got your backs to a wall and the only way out is to fight your way past unending waves of the little twerps, with nets and spears and archers, and you're just hosed.

I have a couple of go-to tips that I use for dungeons: YMMV

Don't Drop The Hammer On Them Right Away
First few rooms should be bleeders or just interesting explorable areas with nothing too dangerous: slightly taxing encounters that don't do much damage to the party are great. You want them to go in deep before they think about backtracking back out.

Swarms Are Fun
Don't hesitate to send a horde of low-level warrior monsters (orcs or whatever) against a well-equipped adventuring party. Give them a chance to kick-ass against a bunch of mooks every once in a while. THEN you whip out the leader types, deeper in.

Three Dimensions
Create tactical encounters in three dimensions. You can use a kids set of blocks or just be really descriptive.. but the point is: have places like overhangs, elevated areas, balconies, inclines, ledges, and precipes built into your encounters whenever possible. Even if you can only throw a single boulder on the battlefield, do that. Have stuff to hide behind, climb over and jump off of. If there's a table, make sure it's mentioned in case anyone wants to flip it over and get behind it. Barrels can be rolled, benches can be turned into makeshift battering rams.. all of that stuff. Give players some stuff to play with.  

Room to Maneuver
Make the rooms big. Back in the old days I used to make these mazes of tiny little rooms and stuff, but I've found that having a larger combat area is nothing but good.

Don't Knock Yourself Out With Prep
You don't have to detail out every single room. Nowadays I don't usually write out a description of each room. Sometimes I just mark right on the map where "the wraith's area" is or whatever, or where the pit trap is, and then when it comes time for the encounter, I open the Monster manual and run it right from the book. For special encounters and NPCs, I say do some preparation, but for something a bit more general, you can kinda run from the book.

Don't be afraid to use a few NPCs
It doesn't have to be all combat, even in the dungeon. Sometimes the fire giant (or whoever) isn't just waiting there to kick someones ass. Maybe he wants to talk (or drink with, or trade/gamble with) with the adventurers.

Don't Try To Circumvent What The Players Do Unfairly
Ok, so you put an NPC in there. And then the players decided to attack it, even though this would totally have been a sweet roleplaying encounter and given up a big plot point or something. Well, let them! If your NPC has a legitimate chance to escape, use it, but don't be unfair.

Have Multiple Paths/Multiple Levels/Multiple Exits and Entrances
Every dungeon expedition should be unique, even if they go back to the same exact dungeon. Having lots of explorable nooks is a great way to make this happen, and gives the sense that there are a lot of things going on just beneath the surface.

Get Ready For The Clearing Crew
Here's one I've noticed over the years: The players hit a dungeon, get what they need, and avoid the toughest encounters. Then, a few levels later, someone will say "Hey, lets go back to that one dungeon we hit a while back. We should be able to clear it this time!"
 1) Be fair, DONT suddently populate the whole place with tougher creatures.
 2) DO update some encounters.
 3) DO update the rooms they hit. Some new monsters might move into the rooms they hit. Maybe the carcass of the giant lizard they killed in the front room 6 months ago, gets turned into a zombie giant lizard by the necromancer on the next level. If they went through and smashed all the burial urns in one room, change the description of the room to describe the smashed burial urns.
  4) If you have 'digger' type monsters, allow for some new construction, new linkages or whatever.

Don't Obsess On The Map
I make some pretty sweet looking maps in Paint Shop, but I realized that the players never actually see them. So now I do all my maps on just plain graph paper. Make it good enough for you.

Abyssal Maw, you and I are totally riding on the same wavelength.  I'll add another piece:

Don't Be Afraid to Be Inexplicable

A lot can be gained by a logically constructed dungeon, but even more can be achieved by occasionally throwing rationality out the window.  The stuff of nightmares makes for great dungeon encounters.  Perhaps the non-intelligent monsters all seem to be chanting the same almost-word.  Or a stairway down leads literally to Hell.  A section of the dungeon is cold enough to be iced over for no good reason.  Etc.

I was gonna say that! I remember how in the old days we'd always have that one room with reverse gravity (or something similar). No explanation, it was just there. And nobody ever really questioned it!

Make the monsters make sense. Don't have troglodytes next to lantern archons unless you know why they're getting along so well. The players may never know, but if you don't know you can be sure they'll try to find out.

Make the dungeon alive. If something is happening in room #1 and room #2 can hear it, they should react. Otherwise the dungeon becomes a cycle of "kick down the door, kill the monster, take its loot."

Don't rely too heavily on the bottleneck effect. Dungeons allow you to set things up so that there are certain gateway locations that must be passed to get from the entrance to where the players cant to go. This can be a great way to ensure some pacing, introduce new elements to the game, or whatever. However, if there is a way to avoid it, especially if the gateway location looks really deadly, players will find it.

Quote from: James McMurrayMake the dungeon alive. If something is happening in room #1 and room #2 can hear it, they should react. Otherwise the dungeon becomes a cycle of "kick down the door, kill the monster, take its loot."

This one is huge.  If the players (and characters) understand that badguys from every direction can come crashing down on them at any moment, it encourages a little more tension.  If they can be sure that a loud melee will not be heard by the guys in the next apartment (and that they can retreat from the complex to rest up whenever they want), your mood is destroyed.

Good stuff from all. One of the reasons I think that Crawls get a bad rep, is that most times, the group (GM & players) set up the whole thing as something limited in scope...simply because, as mentioned on the other thread it is an enclosed space.

Even I talked about the ease in running adventures because events that occur are constrained by space. But this does not mean that the dungeon should be static, and I think many are. Most of the time it is kick down the door and take stuff or complete whatever mission the pcs are on. I don't like the former but am all for the latter.

But, what I like to emphasize is that for the duration of the adventure the dungeon is a self contained world. This means, you don"t slack off on stuff like characterization, detail - James McMurray makes a damn good point with making the dungeuon alive - and all that other stuff you would apply to non dungeon adventures.

I remember a Dungeon adventure called Sleepless which took place in an isolated tower. It was about a doomed mage trying to get a new body , but the dungeon was filled with interesting characters - duplitious apprentices, schemimg rivals, other worldy creatures waiting to collect a debt...and the pcs right in the middle.

Regards,
David R

Here's a few things I have learned from experience and observation:

Keep it exotic: It's easy to just take a room and plop some monsters (even some thematically appropriate and ecologically plausible monsters if you prefered), but eventually, the "monster condo" approach wears thin.

You need something about each dungeon to make it different from the last. It's hard to enumerate, but some recent examples:
- A recent published module I ran featured a room full of candles. Books in the room revealed that one candle corresponed to one hero in the world. Heroes know to be long dead have burnt out candles.

Yes, the PC's names are in the book.

- One "dungeon" was the cogs of a gigantic machine.

And so on...

Not all "dungeons" are "dungeons": Dungeon is mostly shorthand for sight-based-adventure. Sure, there may be the typical crypt, tomb, labyrinth, or cavern complex. But even those get old and are often hard to explain.

A dungeon is just as easy a border fort, a guild hall, a castle, or a variety of other structures already existing in your game.

With bigguns, don't bite off more than you can chew: One of the major killers of dungeon campaigns is the mega-dungeon. Sounds cool at first, but often players need a change of pace.

So does that mean you have to chuck you megadungeon you spent weeks (or $100) making/buying? No! Give players explicit goals within the dungeon and ways to complete them (guides/maps/etc.), and allow them to make forays into the dungeon. Give the players some other activities to stretch their legs and revisit as needed.

Magic force barriers that disallow players to leave until they are 20th level and have defeated the big bad boss are a bad idea.