TheRPGSite

Courtesy of Stuart, who wrote:

QuoteI want to see RPGs that are:

* Little to no prep work
* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
* The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches
* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
* The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)

There's the goal. What can we do to meet that goal, what are the best ways to make a game like that?

RPGPundit

Initial thoughts:

* Little to no prep work
* The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
Obvious (or licensed) setting with an obvious starting situation. Think of the 'high concept' pitch of a movie and so on. (Star Wars, Undercover Cop Drama, Band of Brothers). Maybe rules to help the GM create a good starting situation quickly & easily. On-the-fly NPC generation rules.

* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
Simple rules. Template-based character creation (maybe "Chinese menu" style; one from column 'A' another from column 'B'?) Again, have a clear and immediate goal for the players. Simple and clear resolution mechanic. Obvious big end point for each session, so any 2hr session feels like "you got something done". The resolution system should always move things forward in some way, regardless of success or failure.

* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
Put all the major rules on the character sheet, for quick reference. Clear and simple "Universal" resolution mechanic, so no hunting around for special cases.

* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches
Players get "points" and can keep score relative to each other. Rules are clear and unambiguous, and resolve conflicts in a balanced fashion with definate and understood outcomes.

* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
The "overall game narrative" is something which comes 'naturally' out of the players roleplaying their characters (i.e the characters are interesting, and the players should want to do interesting and dramatic things -- perhaps that's how the "points" are awarded?)

* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
* The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)
Base the game on "popular", rather than "geek" culture. I think a "Undercover Cop Drama" (for example) style game would appear less strange to the average man on the street than any fantasy or sci-fi setting. Simple rules, so there is no "300 page rulebook" intimidation.

Quote from: warrenInitial thoughts:

* Little to no prep work
* The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
Obvious (or licensed) setting with an obvious starting situation. Think of the 'high concept' pitch of a movie and so on. (Star Wars, Undercover Cop Drama, Band of Brothers). Maybe rules to help the GM create a good starting situation quickly & easily. On-the-fly NPC generation rules.

* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
Simple rules. Template-based character creation (maybe "Chinese menu" style; one from column 'A' another from column 'B'?) Again, have a clear and immediate goal for the players. Simple and clear resolution mechanic. Obvious big end point for each session, so any 2hr session feels like "you got something done". The resolution system should always move things forward in some way, regardless of success or failure.

* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
Put all the major rules on the character sheet, for quick reference. Clear and simple "Universal" resolution mechanic, so no hunting around for special cases.

* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches
Players get "points" and can keep score relative to each other. Rules are clear and unambiguous, and resolve conflicts in a balanced fashion with a definate outcomes.

* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
The "overall game narrative" is something which comes 'naturally' out of the players roleplaying their characters (i.e the characters are interesting, and the players should want to do interesting and dramatic things -- perhaps that's how the "points" are awarded?)

* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
* The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)
Base the game on "popular", rather than "geek" culture. I think a "Undercover Cop Drama" (for example) style game would appear less strange to the average man on the street than any fantasy or sci-fi setting. Simple rules, so there is no "300 page rulebook" intimidation.

Pretty much what he said...

Except on a few points.

Competetive? Um... I normally run games where the players are cooperating towards a common goal. I think that's the norm. I mean, it can be fun to run that staple-of-anime, the "dueling protagonists" but let's not build it into the game too much.

As for lawncrappers, the signature of a lawncrapper is to take that which is good and pervert it. If we make anything that remotely resembles good, they will find it, obsess over it, and kill it.

Quote from: beejazzCompetetive? Um... I normally run games where the players are cooperating towards a common goal. I think that's the norm. I mean, it can be fun to run that staple-of-anime, the "dueling protagonists" but let's not build it into the game too much.

Yeah, I think that co-op is much more common. But competetive doesn't have to be "kill each other". AGON (http://www.agon-rpg.com/), as I brought up in the other thread is a cool kind of mix:

Quote from: AgonThe heroes work together against the enemies and obstacles created by the Antagonist (GM), but the players compete to win the most glory for their heroes.The player who earns the most glory wins the game.

Quote from: beejazzAs for lawncrappers, the signature of a lawncrapper is to take that which is good and pervert it. If we make anything that remotely resembles good, they will find it, obsess over it, and kill it.

Yeah, I don't know what you can do about that, apart from appeal to more regular players so the ratio of "lawncrapper:normal players" drops.

The game described above sounds just like Squirrel Attack! the RPG.

Now this is MY kind of challenge! (heh)

The only two thing that I'm worried about is -- first, to what extent you can have all of these things and the players will still roleplay beyond what they would in any other thematic boardgame or CCG.  Then again, you could play D&D without roleplaying too...  I guess I'll have to wait until playtesting to see.

The other thing is the theme I'm using.  Fantasy.  I wanted to go for the old school, late 70s / early 80s era D&D feel.  I'm not sure if that's really all that appealing in and of itself to the general public.  Then again the Lord of the Rings movies did really well... and Harry Potter is super popular too.

This is very inspiring to get things finished up so I can show people what I've been doing, instead of vaguely hand-waving about it. ;)

Competetive kinda takes it out of the territory of almost every RPG.  Even in Paranoia players are, ostensibly, working together toward the same goal.

Didn't someone already do this with ALL FLESH MUST BE EATEN.

I want to see RPGs that are:

* Little to no prep work
Watch a few zombie horror movies. You have already? Good. Read the rulebook. Great. You can now run the game.


* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
Get the players to pick a character from the templates in the book. Pick a Deadworld from the back.

* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
The rulebook has several systems you could use for task resolution, pick one that suits your group, or just the easiest.

* The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
1) Don't get eaten.
2) If any NPC you encounter isn't breathing shoot it in the head.

* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches

PC1: Give me the shotgun I'm a better shot than you.
PC2: No I found it it's mine.
PC1: Give it hear now.
PC2: BANG!
PC1: Arrgh! My foot! My fucking foot! Why did you do that!
PC2: I was aiming for your head.
PC1: Give me the bloody gun now!

* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
I focus on staying alive, the roleplaying handles itself.

* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
I ask you what is more appealing than blowing the heads off zombies?

* The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)*

I guess zombies are pretty socially awkward, still at least you get to kill them.

Quote from: RPGPunditThere's the goal. What can we do to meet that goal, what are the best ways to make a game like that?

Actually, thinking about this objective a bit more, the Fudge game Mutant Bikers of the Atomic Wasteland (http://fudge.phoenyx.net/guide/bin/view/Guide/MutantBikersOfTheAtomicWasteland) might fit most of these critiera.

I have to admit, I really don't have as much to offer until we decide a few basics about the mechanics of a game (which might be best preceded by having some idea of what kind of game this is)... so what kind of game do we make and what mechanics are condusive (is that the right word?) to making this happen?

I myself would dislike something like CSI or mundane realworld stuff, lawncrappers aside. However, I do want to appeal to just about everybody. I propose easily-accessible pseudo-historical pulp. Like pirates. Or cowboys-n-indians (as politically incorrect as that may be). Or... ninjas. But not magic ninjas. Because that is just asking for lawncrapping. And because it's been done. Alot.

Otherwise, a more innocent spin on the dungeon-delve. Something like the Goonies or Scooby-Doo. Just a thought.

Quote from: warren* Little to no prep work
* The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
Obvious (or licensed) setting with an obvious starting situation. Think of the 'high concept' pitch of a movie and so on. (Star Wars, Undercover Cop Drama, Band of Brothers). Maybe rules to help the GM create a good starting situation quickly & easily. On-the-fly NPC generation rules.

* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours

Let me cut you off here. I see these as tying together in one aspect. If you want to play in 2 hours, and want to have players to have a clear objective, you have no time to putz around with long intros. The preferred method would be a short intro or right to the action or ... better yet ... throw characters right into the action with no intro. (Say, go around the table, players tell what their characters are. Then the GM says: "Okay, you are on a charter plane flying over the bermuda triangle. A storm rolls in over you, lights flicker and the plane starts to plummet. An island appears below, the pilot makes for it, and you experience a crash landing. As you emerge from the wreckage of the plane, you see an impossibly large lizard emerging from the foilage. WHAT DO YOU DO?)

Feng Shui had a nifty take on this two. You start out in a fight, but the players explain why there are there.

QuoteSimple rules. Template-based character creation (maybe "Chinese menu" style; one from column 'A' another from column 'B'?) Again, have a clear and immediate goal for the players. Simple and clear resolution mechanic. Obvious big end point for each session, so any 2hr session feels like "you got something done". The resolution system should always move things forward in some way, regardless of success or failure.

Okay, was there an implication that you were generating players in those 2 hours? That becomes a taller order. This practically forces you into a paradigm like Over The Edge, which I personally disdain.

That said, I think your goals are worthy here. Commonly recognized archetypes possibly with the potential of a special twist, quirk, or schtick to jazz it up.

The most immediate solution that I would use that I could throw a game together like this would be to take Dream Park, rip the character types out, and implement with FUDGE. That way I could have a reasonable level of detail and stability (10 pre-defined skills in template type package vice 3 "roll your own" that a game like OTE would offer.)

Quote* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized

FUDGE works here.

Quote* The game is more appealing to the "average person"

FUDGE is basically a rules light traditional game. There was some fluffy narrative stuff in it, but the dice mechanic is straightforward and flexible enough to work in a traditional manner.

Scooby-Doo!!! Yes, that's totally where it's at.  

Check out Betrayal at House on the Hill.  I think that's pretty close to what I'm talking about.  Except...you know... different. :-/

Quote from: Caesar SlaadThe preferred method would be a short intro or right to the action or ... better yet ... throw characters right into the action with no intro. (Say, go around the table, players tell what their characters are. Then the GM says: "Okay, you are on a charter plane flying over the bermuda triangle. A storm rolls in over you, lights flicker and the plane starts to plummet. An island appears below, the pilot makes for it, and you experience a crash landing. As you emerge from the wreckage of the plane, you see an impossibly large lizard emerging from the foilage. WHAT DO YOU DO?

Oh yeah, totally.

Quote from: beejazzSomething like the Goonies or Scooby-Doo. Just a thought.

Heh, cool :)

Yeah, I've always been a big fan of teh Goonies.
It's just... classic.

I've never tried to build an entire game, even hypothetically.  Please bear with me.

FUDGE or FATE seem like solid systems, though something in me leans towards a  BRP-style d100.  With a d100 system you'd have skills and such ranked with percentages, a number system the average jane is pretty familiar with.

Cops and robbers might be boring, but a procedural game would make things really easy for our hypothetical designers.  Each character would have an explicit role to serve in the game, from SWAT types to the hottie DA.

Since police (or the FBI, DEA or whatever) have specific hoops to jump through (that anyone who's ever laid eyes on Law & Order has at least heard tell of) each game would have a solid skeleton that actions would build on.  This would free the GM to plug-n-play the criminals, crimes, clues and so on, eliminating a lot of the "now what?" feeling that you get during prep.

With obvious good guys (the PCs) and obvious bad guys (the crooks), most of the tension would come from the desires of each of the cops to run the investigation his way.  You'd have the Mel Gibson type who wanted to storm in with guns blazing, the straight-arrow chief who's keeping things by the book, the Constitution-first DA, etc.  Each of the PCs has his or her own approach.

I'm totally in agreement with the idea of modular character creation.  In a police procedural, the character sheets could consist of linked pre-printed cards.  Each card would have an archetype name and a listing of skills that archetype has.  To spice things up, there could be a series of flaw cards, focused only on those things the character does poorly.

Example:  I want to make a shooty officer who has his head on straight and puts duty first.  So, I take a "Marksman" card, which has healthy percentages on shooting and firearms skills at the cost of investigational and interpersonal skills.  Next, I take the "Ice Cool" card which, again, trades high percentages in my favored skills for low skills in others.  Finally, to make things interesting, I pick my characters flaw card, "Toe the Line", which puts him at odds with any ideas or actions that go against orthodox police work.

With all my numbers together, I take a few minutes to write up my officer's personal history on a 3x5 card (another damn card!)  In about fifteen minutes I have my character created and ready to roll.

Quote from: StuartScooby-Doo!!! Yes, that's totally where it's at.  

Check out Betrayal at House on the Hill.  I think that's pretty close to what I'm talking about.  Except...you know... different. :-/

Stuart, m'lad, I think that just might be what we're looking for here.  The Goonies or Scooby Doo would be an easily understandable game with clear (goals [find your way through the cave to the Priate treasure, or solve the mystery of the haunted amusement park]).

Just thinking out loud, let's see how a "Teen Ghost Detective Game" would play out.



* Little to no prep work
-Here's my idea.  Have 2 tables, both of which you roll a d100 on.  The first table is "Haunted Place".  The second is "Haunting Location".  You could even add a third one, "Haunted By".  So, say I roll on each table, I just plug my results in:

Haunted Castle in Scotland by Zombie Knight

or

Haunted Amusement Park in the Lousiana Bayou by Ghost Pirates.

Hey, we already know what the games about, right?  "Get to the bottom of that mystery, gang!"  All we need do is plug in our little plot generator, maybe watch a few episodes of Scooby-Doo, and we're set!

Now, templates are awesome for this sort of game:  "Preppy Jock", "Ditzy Hawt Chick", "Nerdy Girl with Glasses", "Stoner", "That Goth Girl", "Juvie Delinquent", "Wide-Eyed Redneck"--all by their very names evoke images that would be conducive to RPing, even for a first-timer.  Throw a few skills in there and basic stats (maybe something as simple as mind/body/luck), and we're set.

 * The goal(s) of the game is clear and understood by all players
OK, now I really think this is where a "Teen Ghost Detective" RPG would really work.  Figure out who is behind the haunting of ___________ in the setting of ________________.  Can't get much simpler than that.  Whether its picking up clues or outrunning goons, the goal is still the same.

* Can be played quickly, perhaps in as little as 2 hours
Simple resolution is a must (I'm a fan of 2d6, personally), but yeah, this sort of game theme would be episodic in nature, anyway.

* Don't require extensive rulebooks to be memorized
-2d6 plus Skill plus Stat equals or is greater to Target Number, baby.

* Players can play competitively and not pull their punches
-Hmm--you could institute something along the line of "clue points", or overall "mystery points"--basically, figuring something out or picking up the trail should be worth X points.  Further, you could either cash them in for rerolls (as in Luck Points).  Or, you could simply have the players trying to out-do one another for the honor of pulling off that rubber mask.  This item probably needs to be worked on further.

* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative
-Simple:  a strong GM figure who provides the details.  The templates are painted with a big enough brush folks should have a pretty easy time deciding what their character would do.

* The game is more appealing to the "average person"
-People love mysteries, they love certain old Hanna-Barbera cartoons, amd I think as a mini-genre it might be an easy buy-in. * The game is not seen as the exclusive domain of introverted and/or socially awkward people (aka Lawncrappers)
-Dude, everyone loves Scooby-Doo, or is at least familiar with it.

Just one way it could play out.  There could be plenty of others.  Thoughts?

Quote from: Zachary The FirstJust one way it could play out.  There could be plenty of others.  Thoughts?

Dude, I was just throwing it out there for the last two (two, one?) reasons, but this is just sounding so much better the way you put it...

Trying to make any kind of sense out of this or put any variation into the plotlines might suck...

But who the fuck needs to rationalize Scooby???

REALLY good Scooby Doo build.  I'm in love with the plot randomizer.

Worthwhile to tie in the run-from-the-monster sequences they always put in?  Maybe also a way to run subdual of the baddie.  Got to get them tied up somehow!

Quote from: beejazzDude, I was just throwing it out there for the last two (two, one?) reasons, but this is just sounding so much better the way you put it...

Trying to make any kind of sense out of this or put any variation into the plotlines might suck...

But who the fuck needs to rationalize Scooby???

Well, the nice thing is that a game like that could be painted with very broad strokes indeed.  2 hours, a clue here, a clue there, running from Goons A and B, Swamp Monster X, more clues, a good finale--a couple of trick bookcases, trap doors, and secret stairways, and you've got elements you can change up every game without it becoming a total snooze-fest.  Plus, the random plot generator and a sort of "where to now, gang?" attitude/setting would likely make even longer-term play possible.

I think a lot of fun interaction would be had simply through those templates.  Your Cowardly Stoner is going to make things harder for the group, but his high Luck score makes him a vital part of the team.  Your "Ditzy Hawt Chick" likely won't get along with "That Goth Girl", but might not even realize how much she's pissing her off.  Your "A/V Club Weirdo" might be trying to impress "That Goth Girl" the whole time, but can't stop talking about Final Fantasy X while he searches for the kind of trap door that was featured in Obscure Anime Show #147.

Quote from: fonkaygarryREALLY good Scooby Doo build.  I'm in love with the plot randomizer.

Worthwhile to tie in the run-from-the-monster sequences they always put in?  Maybe also a way to run subdual of the baddie.  Got to get them tied up somehow!

That's a good idea!  Perhaps that's where the Luck stat comes in on different characters.  High-Luck characters can use it a few times a game to add to their rolls to see what happens (sort of like how it is in In Harm's Way).

"Luckily, as my Cowardly Stoner fall down the slide, he crashes into the giant bookshelf, which sends a cascade of books down onto the Headless Watchman".  Nothing where they're having to narrate the entire scene, mind, just a little tweak here and there for cinematic value.

But yeah, we'd definitely need to figure out a way to tie it all in.

My thoughts:

In order to play at all competitively, you have to limit the GM's resources. But you should also consider, for the sake of tone, what "winning" should be for the GM. In other words, I wouldn't allow characters to get seriously hurt or die. And "winning" for the GM should either be, essentially, impossible (and the GM also shouldn't be able to play kingmaker), or the GM should win by foiling the investigation and succeeding in his plot (though still, nobody should be physically harmed), or the GM should get points based on how long it takes the investigators to solve the mystery. Those points could then be banked for future games in which the GM plays an investigator.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadFeng Shui had a nifty take on this two. You start out in a fight, but the players explain why there are there.

Yup, that was precisely the same thing I was thinking. Feng Shui has the perfect setup for both quick character creation and getting right to the action. Its a model I wish way more RPGs would follow.

RPGPundit

Cybergeneration you can actually form the characters as you read through the book. So effectively you can start playing as soon as pick up the book. I've done it a couple of times.

I know a lot of people have the hate on for it, but the way the rulebook was written and character creation was pretty radical, and made the game very easy to start.

QuoteIn order to play at all competitively, you have to limit the GM's resources. But you should also consider, for the sake of tone, what "winning" should be for the GM.

It could be:
* the bad guy gets away
* they catch the bad guy, but the bad deed is already done
* they catch the bad guy, but don't have enough evidence to convict him
* the sheriff, rarely seen and controlled by the GM, is the one to finally catch the bad guy: "You crazy kids should learn to leave this to the professionals.  Maybe we should phone your parents."

Quote from: fonkaygarryI'm totally in agreement with the idea of modular character creation.  In a police procedural, the character sheets could consist of linked pre-printed cards.  Each card would have an archetype name and a listing of skills that archetype has.  To spice things up, there could be a series of flaw cards, focused only on those things the character does poorly.

Example:  I want to make a shooty officer who has his head on straight and puts duty first.  So, I take a "Marksman" card, which has healthy percentages on shooting and firearms skills at the cost of investigational and interpersonal skills.  Next, I take the "Ice Cool" card which, again, trades high percentages in my favored skills for low skills in others.  Finally, to make things interesting, I pick my characters flaw card, "Toe the Line", which puts him at odds with any ideas or actions that go against orthodox police work.

With all my numbers together, I take a few minutes to write up my officer's personal history on a 3x5 card (another damn card!)  In about fifteen minutes I have my character created and ready to roll.

I think this is very clever, would one card modify another?

Quote from: RPGPunditThere's the goal. What can we do to meet that goal, what are the best ways to make a game like that?

Executive Decision.  Greg Stolze.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenExecutive Decision.  Greg Stolze.

Isn't that one of those talky weepy ponder-your-morality "games"?

Alternately, if Executive Decision has the president gear up in mechanized battle armor and wield a laser sword, I would totally play it.

Quote from: Abyssal MawIsn't that one of those talky weepy ponder-your-morality "games"?

Uh...  Not by my standards.

You play a member of the cabinet, as do the other players, during a crisis.  You have an agenda, and so do all the others.  More rhetoric, less pondering.

http://www.gregstolze.com/downloads.html

EDIT: "Because it's moral!" would be an okay posture to use in an attempt to convince others, maybe.  I'd personally prefer "It'll get us votes, folks."

Quote from: Levi KornelsenUh...  Not by my standards.

You play a member of the cabinet, as do the other players, during a crisis.  You have an agenda, and so do all the others.  More rhetoric, less pondering.

http://www.gregstolze.com/downloads.html

EDIT: "Because it's moral!" would be an okay posture to use in an attempt to convince others, maybe.  I'd personally prefer "It'll get us votes, folks."

But my point is (and I'm being serious for once) all you do is talk. Thats it. There's no "and then we go out and do stuff" part. You might as well just play Diplomacy and leave the board in the box.

Quote from: Abyssal MawBut my point is (and I'm being serious for once) all you do is talk. Thats it. There's no "and then we go out and do stuff" part. You might as well just play Diplomacy and leave the board in the box.

Right.

Quote* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative

Not that I hold anything against Stolze. I just think In Spaaaaace or Meatbot Massacre would be more of a game than

"..ok, I'll pretend I'm the president and you pretend your'e like .. the SecDef. And we discuss what to do about the alien invasion. For like 2 hours."

Man. There's just nothing there.

On the other hand if the game were like this I would play it:

GM: "ok, so your'e duck hunting, see.. and you notice Jim's character is over in the blinds."

Player (as Dick Cheney): "I shoot him in the face!"

GM: "roll for inititative!"

See, now thats a game.

I've had an idea similar to a previous poster, (strangely enough a few days ago).

Archetypes printed on card-stocks (or my original thought, laminates). This has a picture of a typical member of your class. It includes Stats and that's it, the stats take care of all the skills, there's no need to include them individually.

Stats:

Combat (this covers all combat type skills)
Social (all social skills)
Magic (you get it)
KNowledge (facts, botany, lores etc)
Sneaking (move silently, hide, pick pockets all the sheaky stuff)
Skills (anything not covered above. Climbing, tie ropes etc)

These values are from 0-6 and each archetype has them printed on the sheet.

Success at a task isn't bound to how difficult the task is, but to how good you are at it. Thus to succeed at a task covered by one of your stats, you have to roll equal to or under that stats rating on a single d6. Simple.

Opposed rolls are decided by the character who has the higher stat rating, if both achieve a success, or a random 'roll off' of a d6 if still tied.

Damage to a person makes you turn your character sheet sidways (like tapping in a CCG), further damage upside down, then finally turn the sheet over on the third bit of damage. Now the PC is out and possibly dying. No damage rolls, no different damage for different weapons (if an archetype is a barbarian who uses 2handed weapons, then his combat rating is higher, not the damage). Wearing armour allows you to ignore one piece of damage in a combat.

Magic items serve as a bonus to your stats or give you a rating where you had none before. Weapons could give 'double damage' or armour enable ignoring two lots of damage etc.

Money and treasure is rated by what it can buy you, such as; weapon, armour, grimoire, magic item, home etc. etc

That's a game right there. If there's interest, i might start writing some stuff up (largely archetypes as the rest sorts itself out).

So ideas I'm hearing people like thus far are...

A) Cardstock archetypes.

B) Scooby/Goonies

Just for the sake of the argument, I'm gonna throw out a couple of other suggestions...

American Politics Parody Adventure Game (a la Team America: World Police)

Time bandits-esque "Steal shit... in TIME."

PACIFISTS UNLEASHED
(Buddha Blaster, Kung-Fu Ghandi, Pope mailbox baseball, etc.)

Its funny you all talk about archtypes on cards (though multiple cards that add aspects is a new twist.) See up in my first post where I talk about Dream Park? All the archetypal characters were printed on cards. Each character had a little color pic on one side, and their 10 "skills" on the other.

I could see gutting FATE for this "mixed archetype cards" thing:

Quote from: fonkaygarryI'm totally in agreement with the idea of modular character creation.  In a police procedural, the character sheets could consist of linked pre-printed cards.  Each card would have an archetype name and a listing of skills that archetype has.  To spice things up, there could be a series of flaw cards, focused only on those things the character does poorly.

Example:  I want to make a shooty officer who has his head on straight and puts duty first.  So, I take a "Marksman" card, which has healthy percentages on shooting and firearms skills at the cost of investigational and interpersonal skills.  Next, I take the "Ice Cool" card which, again, trades high percentages in my favored skills for low skills in others.  Finally, to make things interesting, I pick my characters flaw card, "Toe the Line", which puts him at odds with any ideas or actions that go against orthodox police work.

You mention FATE earlier in your post; this is a perfect fit for it. Each card could have one aspect on it, each aspect with 4 different skill picks. Pick one card per aspect, tally the skills, and away you go!

For reference: http://www.faterpg.com/

It's free. It's open source.

I may actually try throwing something together like this. Anyone want to help me come up with these cards? I may start another thread if there are those of you whose thoughts are leaning other directions with this.

Quote* Players can focus on roleplaying their characters rather than creating the overall game narrative

This means the players can focus on their characters rather than the traditional job of the "GM".  I don't think it means they have to sit around talking though... I think the three options for the traditional job of the GM would be:
1) A single player - The traditional GM
2) Equally amongst all the players (which is what Levi is thinking)
3) The game itself (which is what I'm thinking)

Stuart, have you seen either Arkham Horror or Avalon Hill's old Magic Realm? Or to get really obscure, SPI's old Wreck of the BSM Pandora? All have a sort of "game as GM" quality, although I'm very fond of Arkham Horror.

Also you're absolutely right that "winning" for a GM could just be that the baddy gets away or the gang is upstaged by the police. I don't know why I overlooked those simple options.

Quote from: BalbinusI think this is very clever, would one card modify another?

There's no reason why that couldn't happen.  To steal another idea, the whole game would be "skill" based.  I don't see a need to differentiate between attributes and skills for an entry level game (unless we go with Slaad's idea about FATE, which I think is pretty cool.)

Characters would all start out with a base value in each skill.  On a hypothetical 1-6 scale for d6-based resolution I would imagine 2 as the base.  Each card would then add or subtract from each value.  So if you took a "Burnout" card that upped your Lunatic Insight (let's say +2) and cut your Rationality (let's say -2 because I'm a d20 GM), you'd still wait until you had all your cards to add up the modifiers.

The idea is to have cards in three categories.  I imagine Training, Talents and Trouble (alliteration FTW.)    Splitting up the categories like that would ease creation of a character's backstory.  Picked up Martial Artist (Training), Poetic (Talent) and Emo (Trouble?)  Sounds like a judo player going through a goth phase to me!

Or were you thinking in a more holistic approach, in which each card had a proportional effect on the modifiers of all the other cards?  Math isn't something I've studied very much, so I've no idea how that might work.

Slaad, I'd like to help with your FATE idea.  I've no real design chops, but it's an interesting enough idea that I'd like to be involved.

One idea for the competition angle:  Limit the number of scenes in a game.  Each scene would have a general breakdown (X number of clues, X NPCs to question/fight/tickle, X appearances by the Big Bad,) with the "finale" scene only coming around if the PCs have enough clues to piece the mystery together.  If they do, cue the climactic conflict.  If they missed too much, enter the cops with the perp/Big Bad.  It puts the players on the clock, providing a sense of urgency and putting a time limit on the game.

Maybe there could be an Advanced ruleset with rules for advancement.  Every time the PCs win, they could earn points toward buying off their flaws.  After Shaggy's unmasked enough ghouls, he figures it's time to lay off the Scooby Snacks and cuts his "Smoked the Fuck Out" penalty by one.