Right now this is a Scout:

QuoteScout

Good Small Arms Skill
Good Light Armor Skill
Good Stealth Skill
Good Survival Skill
Fair Repair Skill
Fair Heavy Arms Skill


Scouts Receive D8 Heroism Dice

1st Level: Hardiness

The Scout is adept  at surviving in exotic environments and facing strange planetary conditions. He receives a +2 bonus to all saves in such locales.



5th Level: Survival

The Scout can spend a heroism point and make a survival skill roll even in environments which wouldn't ordinarily allow it. (Vacuum, Advanced City complexes, Toxic Environments.) It is assumed that they can find sufficient equipment to protect themselves in the environment.





9th Level: Companion

The scout find or discovers a strange alien animal that takes a liking to them. This animal will follow commands and can survive in the same environments
as the scout. The exact specifications depend on the GM (See the Fauna Files), but the animal should be of equal rank and ability to the characters level-2.

Now they are stealth and wilderness capable, but the focus in on survival. Someone else brought up the idea that they were my "Rogue" equivalent to some extent they are, but I was wondering if I should switch their powers to something supportive of both roles. The 9th Level class ability probably should be moved to 12 or later and be an aspect all heroes get. (Followers)

Is there going to be a level cap for the classes, or certain classes?

A thing I found incredibly annoying about some classes in D&D 3e was being dictated to on what abilities my character would get when.
Make a pool of abilities and 'level costs' to gain them or something. Let the player choose what type of Scout they play.

I like the Scout as "Space Ranger"

Are your skills only rated Poor / Fair / Good?   If you have a Great category, I can see the Ranger's Stealth and Survival being listed higher than Good.

How is "exotic environment" and "strange planetary conditions" defined?   It sounds too easy for PC abuse.   Also, does this save bonus stay static or could it increase at higher levels?

I like the Survival skill.  Reminds me of the Captain in Event Horizon.  

I like the Space Beastie at 9th.   The Scout could get his Beastie at 9th and Followers at 12th.  

As a Scout, I would also expect him to have some Linguistics / Language and maybe Computer skills...or maybe that could be an Alternate Scout build for your later supplement.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307592A thing I found incredibly annoying about some classes in D&D 3e was being dictated to on what abilities my character would get when.

Sidewinder - a D20 western game - did this very well.   At early levels, you would get Basic Abilities and upper levels had Advanced Abilities.   Each class had a group of abilities in each category and you could pick which one you got at whatever level.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307592A thing I found incredibly annoying about some classes in D&D 3e was being dictated to on what abilities my character would get when.
Make a pool of abilities and 'level costs' to gain them or something. Let the player choose what type of Scout they play.

Sorry, being this is based on BASIC D&D in spirit, it's going to work that way. Classes define what you get and when. If you want something else, well there are innumerable games out there that do that. You'd be happier with them.

Perhaps my post came out blunter than it should have.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307603I like the Scout as "Space Ranger"

Are your skills only rated Poor / Fair / Good?   If you have a Great category, I can see the Ranger's Stealth and Survival being listed higher than Good.

Poor= Only Default Attribute
Fair=Attribute and Level Adjustment for Odd Levels (i.e 1/2 advancement)
Good: Attribute + Level Adjustment every level. There is no "Great" that's
what Good is for--to show a marked increase above general competence.

QuoteHow is "exotic environment" and "strange planetary conditions" defined?   It sounds too easy for PC abuse.   Also, does this save bonus stay static or could it increase at higher levels?

At the moment they're left to GM discretion--since a GM sets environments in the first place.

QuoteI like the Survival skill.  Reminds me of the Captain in Event Horizon.  

As a Scout, I would also expect him to have some Linguistics / Language and maybe Computer skills...or maybe that could be an Alternate Scout build for your later supplement.

I've not thought of languages, but I think that is a definite thing to look at since languages (and alignment tongue) were things carried in Basic D&D. How do we do this? Align species: A reptiloid speaks all reptiloid tongues due to basic symmetry?

Of course I could set languages aside as "outside class system" allowing you any number of languages equal to a stat. Then rely on Computers skill (and P-comm's for any languages outside your knowledge.)

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307619Perhaps my post came out blunter than it should have.

No worries. I'm not going to get bent out of shape or anything. I've got another  SF game  (Space Opera with more nods to Babylon 5, and other good "light" SF) that is more "build to taste"  but Derelict Delvers is definitely "Roll Alien Stuff, Roll Stats, Pick Class...buy gear and play."

Adding extra decision steps bogs down the intent of this particular game's purpose, which is to make an easy to utilize, pick up and play, space-derelict crawling game. Of course that's part of why I discuss is it to see better ways to get to that "simple to pick up, but robust return.." type design I aim for, please offer feedback if you see better ways of getting to my aims. It is alright to have different aims! There is plenty of room for different games. Grubman over on the TBP is making his own game based on similar themes-- X-plorers.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307603How is "exotic environment" and "strange planetary conditions" defined?   It sounds too easy for PC abuse.   Also, does this save bonus stay static or could it increase at higher levels?

A suggestion to address this issue: maybe the ability could be rewritten as a +2 save bonus to all environmental effects (heat, cold, high gravity, toxic atmosphere, etc.), regardless of what sort of planet the scout is on. After all, physical hardiness and constitution wouldn't just "go away" as soon as he steps foot on a more civilized world.

Also, this thread got me intrigued by this project, but I couldn't really find any info - with this site's stupid "minimum 4 words" requirement, the forum search is a waste of storage space. I did find this link, and I have a question:
It seems like every PC class has the Good Small Arms skill, no exceptions. If it's so, then why have it listed as a separate skill? Why not just say "this is the combat matrix/THAC0 progression/whatever that every PC uses to attack with Small Arms"? It's like in Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves: if you have a chalk mark on every door in the street, that's the same as having no chalk marks whatsoever, only you just wasted some good chalk.

Quote from: Premier;307622A suggestion to address this issue: maybe the ability could be rewritten as a +2 save bonus to all environmental effects (heat, cold, high gravity, toxic atmosphere, etc.), regardless of what sort of planet the scout is on. After all, physical hardiness and constitution wouldn't just "go away" as soon as he steps foot on a more civilized world.

That is a solid enough adjustment. Consider it adopted.

QuoteIt seems like every PC class has the Good Small Arms skill, no exceptions. If it's so, then why have it listed as a separate skill? Why not just say "this is the combat matrix/THAC0 progression/whatever that every PC uses to attack with Small Arms"? It's like in Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves: if you have a chalk mark on every door in the street, that's the same as having no chalk marks whatsoever, only you just wasted some good chalk.

Hrms. I've not considered that but you are correct. I might need to adjust that. I imagine Espers and Engineers might have Fair Small Arms Skill, but part of the reason I wrote it as I did was to be consistent in mentioning general "skill like" abilities. Of course I could go strange and make it so that Espers have Good Small Arms (Melee) and Engineers have Good Small Arms (Ranged), or something akin to that, indicating some narrower approach those two classes have for weapons training. Melee for Espers because they develop hand to hand skills/fencing/martial arts weapons in order to hone their discipline. Engineers because they work on guns a lot. Of course as I'm babbling I probably need to rename Small Arms to Light Arms.  

I'll do some testing and see how it works.



Also, if you need to find the threads about this game it might be easier to search my user name and Derelict Delvers via Advanced Search.


I pulled up:
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13975
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13760
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=13427
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=12147
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=11590
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=10322


I hope that helps. The game is on the front burner, and is fairly complete, but these considerations are things I do need to examine and address, before I get to "complete send to editing" stage.

Quote from: Silverlion;307644Hrms. I've not considered that but you are correct. I might need to adjust that. I imagine Espers and Engineers might have Fair Small Arms Skill, but part of the reason I wrote it as I did was to be consistent in mentioning general "skill like" abilities. Of course I could go strange and make it so that Espers have Good Small Arms (Melee) and Engineers have Good Small Arms (Ranged), or something akin to that, indicating some narrower approach those two classes have for weapons training. Melee for Espers because they develop hand to hand skills/fencing/martial arts weapons in order to hone their discipline. Engineers because they work on guns a lot. Of course as I'm babbling I probably need to rename Small Arms to Light Arms.  

I'll do some testing and see how it works.

Depending on how exactly the combat works, one option might be to go with class-specific weapon lists (which is the D&D way, at any rate). So each class would have a set of weapon which it's proficient with (nominal attack), a set which it can use at a penalty (like non-proficiency in AD&D), and a set of weapons outright forbidden for the class (heavy weapons for non-fighters, etc.). If character advancement calls for it, points/proficiencies/whatever might be spent on moving a specific weapon type from one category to the other.

Edit- Nevermind... move along, nothing to see here

Quote from: Silverlion;307620At the moment they're left to GM discretion--since a GM sets environments in the first place.

I suggest giving some description of environments, giving the GM some parameters.   You need that more in sci-fi than fantasy.   We all know what Forest / Mountain / Plains look like.   But Exotic Environ vs. Strange Conditions should either just be Exotic Environs or have explanations how they pose different challenges.

Quote from: Silverlion;307620Align species: A reptiloid speaks all reptiloid tongues due to basic symmetry?

I like languages, but only a dozen per setting.   More than that and it gets crazy.  I like the idea of languages based on symmetry.
 

Quote from: Silverlion;307620Of course I could set languages aside as "outside class system" allowing you any number of languages equal to a stat. Then rely on Computers skill (and P-comm's for any languages outside your knowledge.)

If you want languages to play a game role, then Universal Translators need to be rare / bulky / expensive.    If your cellphone translates all tongues, then all aliens essentially speak Star Trek English.

Languages are an important part of D&D, but the involvement of high tech may make languages obsolete.  

Quote from: Premier;307649So each class would have a set of weapon which it's proficient with (nominal attack), a set which it can use at a penalty (like non-proficiency in AD&D), and a set of weapons outright forbidden for the class (heavy weapons for non-fighters, etc.).

I would go with Trained Weapons and everything else is Untrained and not ban anything.    Its simpler.

And its cool for a few classes to be totally crappy with weapons.  Psykers and Engineers could be Poor with weaponry, except maybe Psykers could use any kind of brain powered weapons and maybe Engineers can use Siege weapons.

You could have 'Universal Translators' be the 'Languages'. For example, 'due to brain composition', a 'Lizard' translator will only translate 'Lizard' languages and so on.