TheRPGSite

Should be playable, but still needs a lot of work. Lots and lots and lots.

Derelict Delvers (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DerelictDelversplaytest.pdf)

(This is for those who didn't read the Cold Chrome Knights thread)

Yeah!  I will spew much commentary and queries in a few days.

Please let me know, the more feedback the better. (Also I know of writing gaffs, I am trying to get it complete before I have a full time editor go over it.)

I will break my comments into a few different posts.  I will let your grammar editor handle the wording tidbits and I will focus on the concepts.

1) Since 99% of your audience will be gamers, I suggest you open with What is Derelict Delvers? or maybe game fiction to introduce us to the setting and concepts.  Just a page will do fine.   Something to entice the jaded gamers who download everything.

2) I like the sidebars.  Give us more.  

3) Don't tease us with Delver Magazine if you ain't gonna pull that trigger!  
Quarterly is tough, but bi-annual is doable even with a few fans contributing content.  Knockspell and Fight On! seem to do well based on their Lulu awards.  BTW, page 4 mentions Derelict Magazine.  For wino gamers!

4) I like ARCHIVE.  Are there competing corporations?  Are there unlicensed delvers?

5) Table 1B - skin hues has math problems.

6) The metric system failed in the US.  If you include it, do inches/feet/pounds in parentheses for the USA audience.  

7) I personally like a bit more description with the races, especially racial tendencies. Maybe a sidebar about famous delvers, homeworlds, or maybe ideas for the DM to customize, alter or interpret each race for their campaign.

8) I am unclear on chargen.  I roll 3D6 and the dice roll tells me the attribute which is -3 to +3?   The alternate system of spreading 5 points is automatically far better than rolling 3D6.   Unless 9-10 = 0, 11-12 = +1, 13-14 = +2, etc.   Then the 5 point spread works.  Also, can my race bonus and my level bonuses take me beyond +3?

9) I like "What is X used for?" but add more examples, especially those tasks that are specific to DD gameplay.

10) I know the OSR worships the giant XP chart, but how much gameplay is actually needed to get 48,000 XP to reach 7th level and are modern players really going to enjoy putting that much time again before gaining 8th level?

Thanks for the feedback.

More sidebars are planned with how, why, and even alternates.


Aliens are sort of broad category things. Since it is possible for the entire party to be insectoids from many different planets with different features. Although example and famous delvers are possible. I may instead do "builders" of various important things in the Archive-verse. Such as the founding of Frontier's Edge by the Archive Commander Tek'et'ket to try and exploit the Mines of Madness on Archive Date 9.09.32.01

Feedback on stats is helpful. I'll get it fixed as the intent is to make no option better than the other.

I'm still testing the XP charts and maybe reduced as time goes on. I need to run a complete campaign of it to see where it goes (and get more feedback.)

11) Put the Excellent / Good / Fair chart up front before the classes.  If you do not have a particular skill, is it at +0 or a negative?  

12) Why does the Esper have better Computer skills than Social skills?  As for the level 7 ability, what about something akin to Power Boost, but allows them to use their power on multi-targets at once?

13) I like the McGuyver aspect to the Engineer.   Consider making Self Destruct into the 7th level ability and give something more powerful for 9th level, like "Scotty's Law" which allows them to complete repairs in half the normal time.   Or a master of technology that allows him to repair / deconstruct totally alien tech without penalty.

14) Why are medics so good with Small Arms?  No Computer skill?  How is the Level 1 Medic ability different than the basic use of the Medicine skill?  I like He's Not Dead Jim and I support naming all the skills with cool titles.  I see no problem yanking cool phrases from across popular sci-fi.  It adds a nice feel.  

15) Since medics need to roll Social to effect Sanctuary, shouldn't they have a better Social skill?  Field Surgeon feels weak.   I am also unclear on why high level Medics have the Command Authority ability.   Overall, the Medic seems odd.   Shouldn't their science background give them the Survival skill at Fair?

16) What does the Pilot fly until level 5?   Cut it Close is a cool ability, but maybe better at 3rd level?   I suggest that a HP needs to be spent to activate "I call her Stella" - and who is Stella?    Maybe grant the ship at 3rd level, then the 5th level power is Stella and the 7th level ability could be the ability to declare customizations on the fly with a HP.  

17) At 9th level, what happens when a ship takes additional damage after a pilot uses his Wing and a Prayer?  Is the damage negated?

18) I like the Scout class.  I am unsure what the Scout should get at 9th level, maybe a way to cheat death?

19) Why doesn't the Soldier have Stealth?  I like the Soldier abilties, but Deadly Strike feels like a 7th or 9th level ability.  Maybe at 7th and 9th level, he can gain abilities to quick draw/free reload or multiple attacks.  

20) I absolutely LOVE that DR = Skill + 10 + Armor Value.  However, will people be able to hit stuff in the high 20s and 30s?  Do you add your DEX bonus?  Maybe consider an Armor Penetration / Aiming bonus for weapons?

Quote from: Spinachcat;35601611) Put the Excellent / Good / Fair chart up front before the classes.  If you do not have a particular skill, is it at +0 or a negative?  

It's at zero. Since stats can still play into a roll, and the game is essentially pulp-sf as well as D&D in space.

Quote12) Why does the Esper have better Computer skills than Social skills?  As for the level 7 ability, what about something akin to Power Boost, but allows them to use their power on multi-targets at once?

I thought of them as a bit more alien to the non-espers, as well as the fact that the back concept is Espers have psi but it takes their little Crystaline implant (computer) to help them to big things. But that also was tied into a way of explaining "slots" for usage. (Amount of energy and psychic attunement the user can get from the computer. A beginning user has 1 slot.)

Quote14) Why are medics so good with Small Arms?  No Computer skill?  How is the Level 1 Medic ability different than the basic use of the Medicine skill?  I like He's Not Dead Jim and I support naming all the skills with cool titles.  I see no problem yanking cool phrases from across popular sci-fi.  It adds a nice feel.  

Originally they were the cleric roll--which tended to be combat healers. People willing to brave fire to get up there and heal.  I need to fix triage. It is their first level ability, but might need to be removed and just leave them their specialist uses. (I'm not sure what to call their "spell" like abilities.)

The aim was anyone with medicine can help someone who is injured/hurt. Only medics can do it instantly in the field since Heroism points are the abstract things representing luck. The idea is anyone can keep someone below 0 from dying with a skill check. They can fix broken limbs, etc.) However only a Medic can restore your vigor and boost your luck. The abstraction is a little problematic here of course.


 

Quote15) Since medics need to roll Social to effect Sanctuary, shouldn't they have a better Social skill?  Field Surgeon feels weak.   I am also unclear on why high level Medics have the Command Authority ability.   Overall, the Medic seems odd.   Shouldn't their science background give them the Survival skill at Fair?

It is odd. I was aiming for a cleric in SF field. Suggestions are welcome. I want him to be useful in the field, play the same "keep PC's up and active," but also want some flexibility so that isn't all they do.

Quote16) What does the Pilot fly until level 5?   Cut it Close is a cool ability, but maybe better at 3rd level?   I suggest that a HP needs to be spent to activate "I call her Stella" - and who is Stella?    Maybe grant the ship at 3rd level, then the 5th level power is Stella and the 7th level ability could be the ability to declare customizations on the fly with a HP.  

Good ideas! As to what they fly they can borrow a ship from the ARCHIVE but are expected to return it in its original condition.  They can also pilot other vehicles (Pilot skill covers all the driving.)

Quote17) At 9th level, what happens when a ship takes additional damage after a pilot uses his Wing and a Prayer?  Is the damage negated?  

It's ignored for the most part. There isn't much more damage one can do to the ship at that point that would matter. They're already barely holding it together, already. I might make it require a roll with penalty to keep it together each round.

Quote18) I like the Scout class.  I am unsure what the Scout should get at 9th level, maybe a way to cheat death?

Yeah the scout's specials have given me a hard time--also the Medic's above. I'm trying to create something that is fun and has its own purpose.

Quote19) Why doesn't the Soldier have Stealth?  I like the Soldier abilties, but Deadly Strike feels like a 7th or 9th level ability.  Maybe at 7th and 9th level, he can gain abilities to quick draw/free reload or multiple attacks.  

He's infantry, not the commando. He's the guy at the frond of the charge. A good argument might make me change that, but I'm trying to give everyone a specialty. Right now his is armor and weapons, while the scouts is stealth and survival.

Quote20) I absolutely LOVE that DR = Skill + 10 + Armor Value.  However, will people be able to hit stuff in the high 20s and 30s?  Do you add your DEX bonus?  Maybe consider an Armor Penetration / Aiming bonus for weapons?

Aiming bonus is a good idea. However, I must have miss explained something as Armor absorbs damage.

Ah, I found it.

 I call Defense, Defense Rating, which is too similar to DR (Damage Reduction.)

Ordinarily it be this Defense= Skill+10 so a First Level Soldier wearing armor has a Defense of 13, but has a DR of 3.

I need to clarify that.

Anymore suggestions? I'm glad to hear them!

I've got a few more suggestions noted in my file for special abilities, but they were all of Soldier and Engineer ones. I need more for Espers, Pilots, and Medics.

21) Definitely need different names for either Defense Rating and Damage Reduction!  Maybe Defense Rating and Armor Protection?

22)  I like that 1 Credit = 1 hour basic work.   It gives the DM a great economic baseline.   Will PC groups be renting hirelings like in D&D?  Will "subcontractors" be part of the delve experience?  What about paying for travel costs to and from derelicts?  

23)  I see you have no weights for gear.   That is great!  A few rare gear that is listed as Bulky would be fine, maybe with a caveat that a STR +1 or higher is needed to carry it.   A paragraph suggesting how the DM eyeball encumbrance is fine.   People made fun of the Swordbearer RPG for saying you could carry 10 things, but it's the only encumbrance system that I have ever seen players actually use!

24)  I like that Pulse Lights are both lanterns and burning oil.  What is the DD version of a backpack, lock picks, manacles, mirror (for peeking around corners) and iron spikes for locking doors?   What about holy water, holy symbols and wolvesbane?   More gear please!!!  BTW, are power cells universal?

25) Sealspray seems way too cheap.  Maybe 50c for 5 uses.   Since characters power abilities with HP, this grants them an immediate way to recover abilities at a very fast rate.  Maybe Sealspray isn't instant like a Potion of Healing, but requires a turn to activate?  Maybe it heals 1 HP per round for 1D4 rounds?  Or maybe repeated use of sealspray in an hour causes toxic shock?  

26)  If a Beam Lantern has a power cell that lasts 1 hour, why does a Beam Blade have a power cell that lasts for infinity? I love Mass Mauls and Storm Pikes.   I want a Chain Axe!   Also, include a writeup on the Magnawhip.    If we are counting ammo for range weapons, why not melee weapons?  

27) If an energy knife does 1D4 damage, what damage does a primitive sword do?   I see a problem in penalizing primitive weapons because there are plenty of monsters with just claws.   However, you do want energy tech weapons to be better.   I am cool with low level delvers with steel swords, hoping to earn enough credits to trade up to a beam blade.   I like highly expensive items on the gear list because it keeps gear as a goal through the early to mid levels.  In D&D, once you have 1,000 gp, who cares that a broadsword is 2 gp more than a mace.   Feel free to make the cool weapons unobtainable at chargen.

28) If a target is hit by a Flamer (or other weapon with Ignite), do they get the Save as a free action or does it require them to stop/drop/roll to get the save?

29) Grenades do way too much damage compared to other weapons.   I would hack 1 die off each since they already get the awesome advantage of area effect.   What is the nature of a Bouncing Boomer?   Give us some more types of grenades!  I'd like some non-lethals and some anti-robot and maybe entanglement.  Kinda like web rope that splatters and hardens.

30) I love the idea of adding Liners to armor.  However, the total DR looks like they can easily soak up all the damage of even higher end weapons, except MPAMMs.    When using a shield (I assume this is a physical shield you hold?), what do you have to roll for the shield to work?  Do you have to beat the attack roll?

31) As a Halo fan, I want a Warthog (Aardvark? Or a Puma!) and of course, some insanely fast hover cycles.   I gotta have my Mad Max Aug mobiles!  

32) Do we assume that most derelicts have pressurized oxygen environs?   AKA, what happens if a PC has damage pass through his armor in a non-O2 environ?  Do all armors auto-seal, or are decompression and O2 loss real issues?    

33) Do Exo-skeletons and Power Suits grant STR / CON / DEX bonuses?  Any built in gear or additional weapon systems?  AKA, how do I attach a weapon pod to my shoulder that tracks and fires wherever my primary weapon goes?  

34) How do Espers gain powers?  How many do they start with?  Will they be tiered into levels like spells?   Or will the powers be tiered so you gain the easy ones first and built upon them to the advanced versions.

35) Medikit abilities look cool!  Can anyone with Medicine skill use them or are they just the domain of Medics?   I love the tricorder aspect.

36) I am a cruel DM so if Initiative is a tie, them monsters are getting a free surprise attack!  Monsters in RPGs never seem to surprise characters as much as you see in the movies.   I call it home court advantage.

37) I love the list of what you can NOT do in one round.  That is a great idea.

38)  I am unclear on why a Hard task at level 1 would become harder to achieve at 3rd level.  I always found that an issue with D20 where you never felt you became better because the TN just kept rising, negating your skill increase.   Part of XP growth should be about tasks becoming easier and truly heroic tasks becoming doable.

39)  The list of Ancient Technology is looking good.    What is the rationale for the "lost tech" aspect that keeps these old tech from becoming standard tech?   Could it be that the Ancients place some part of themselves in their tools so without access to Ancient DNA, you just can't make a factory that cranks out the super toys.

40)  Chameleon Cloak and the Invisibility Ring seem identical.  What about adding an LotR aspect to the Ring, aka some issues with psychic possession?   I love Gyrochucks!

41)  I like the monster modification concept.  Will you have some sort of CR charting so the DM knows what is a balanced fight per level?    How does Morale work?  

42) The monster DR looks very high across the board.   Augs with DR 3 mean that beam blades will fail to damage them 50% of the time.  Ouch!   I worry about how the Damage Reduction is going to slow down fights.   The Whiff factor looks very high between the high AC and the high DR.  

43) The basic monster list looks interesting.  I hope you have the dough to get artists to  create images for each of them.  Keep up the good work!

44) I like where the random Derelict chart is going.  I will be interested to see how the various entries develop with game effects (and maybe the common monster threats common to that entry).  Of course, this is probably the most important part of the game since it is the key to repeat gameplay.  As a DM, if I can whip up a cool Derelict in a short time, that would rock.   Certainly, an example Derelict adventure will be needed.

45) How is AI Controlled different from a Sentient Ship or a Living Ship?   Maybe the AI and Sentient can be combined so you can add 10% chance to having 2 unusual features per derelict.   Then 00 could result in 3 different features.    The weirder the better!    I would like to see a proliferation of oddities.  

46)  Once we know the basics of the derelict (Size + Weirdness), what resources are you going to give the DM for designing the interior?   Maybe there should be a list of common room types (bridge, engine room, hydroponics, etc) and maybe these can be detailed with charts of odd features as well.   It would be AWESEOME if the DD website had a randomizer program.  

47) What is the etiquette when two parties of delvers go after the same vessel?   Is Archive on Archive violence acceptable?  Is it every freelancer for himself?

48) I assume you are still working on the spaceship section.   That will be interesting.   One thing I missed from D&D was an easily workable boat-to-boat combat and boarding actions.  

49) In retrospect, I think non-mutated humans are too weak.  Maybe the pure human should get some minor bonus.  In one of the OSR clones (I think BFRP), they give humans a +10% XP bump as a balance factor.   AKA, if everyone earns 400 XP this adventure, the human gets 440.   I am more inclined to offer them a +1 HP per level or the ability to roll their HD twice and pick the higher result.   Of course, the humanoid who just gets chalk white skin isn't any better off than a pure human with no optional features.    

50) Overall, I am excited to see where Derelict Delvers is going.  It has a great combo of familiarity and freshness which means that it has a potential market.  I can see its appeal to 40k fans.  Anything you can add to enhance the retro-future feel would be great.  I know much of that will be in the art, but also promoted in the gear and game concepts.   More Ray Guns!   I was watching the re-mastered version of Forbidden Planet and I was thinking how DD would capture that feel very well.    I am looking forward to submitting articles to the DD magazine!

Cleaned up a few things. Left room for sidebars etc.

Still here (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DerelictDelversplaytest.pdf)

Quote from: Silverlion;356030the back concept is Espers have psi but it takes their little Crystaline implant (computer) to help them to big things. But that also was tied into a way of explaining "slots" for usage.

Crytalline Brain implants are cool way to explain slots.   So Espers are made, not born?  Or does this structure just show up in the heads of some people?  

There was a mention of Psitech.  Was that something of the Ancients?  Or is it just current Archive tech?

Quote from: Silverlion;356030Originally they were the cleric roll--which tended to be combat healers. People willing to brave fire to get up there and heal.  I need to fix triage. It is their first level ability, but might need to be removed and just leave them their specialist uses.

I do like the idea that Medics can do stuff with a Medikit that others cannot (or can't do easily) and certainly, the 40k Space Marine Chaplain fits the image of McCoy in a Power Armor.  

To expand the medic into more of a space cleric, let's look at the AD&D early level spells...

CLERIC FIRST
Bless / Command / Create Water / Cure Lights / Detect Evil / Detect Magic / Light / Protection from Evil / Purify Food & Water / Remove Fear / Resist Cold / Sanctuary.

CLERIC SECOND
Augury / Chant / Detect Charm / Find Traps / Hold Person / Know Alignment / Resist Fire / Silence / Slow Poison / Snake Charm / Speak with Animals / Spiritual Hammer

You have Cure Lights / Slow Poison / Sanctuary already covered.   Food isn't a real issue in sci-fi, but maybe the medi-kit has some kind of speciality that allow a nutrition / hydration boost to erase fatigue?

Bless / Remove Fear might be interesting.  Maybe the medic has the 40k Chaplain effect of increasing morale, calming troops who are panicking, etc.  Since their 9th level ability is essentially Respect Mah Authoritay, maybe we see this Anti-Fear aspect earlier.  Kinda like Battle Psychology?

The cleric also has lots of perceptive spells - Detect Charm / Evil / Magic / Augury - and maybe the Medic is also the master of the tricorder as well, uh I mean handscanner.   The scan and identify "specialities" would be another part of the medic class.

Clerics also Turn Undead.  That seems to be part of the medic's Sanctuary ability.  That Hippocratic Oath is awful powerful!
 

Quote from: Silverlion;356030The aim was anyone with medicine can help someone who is injured/hurt. Only medics can do it instantly in the field since Heroism points are the abstract things representing luck.

I like that distinction.  Very cool.

Quote from: Silverlion;356030He's infantry, not the commando. He's the guy at the frond of the charge.

Save the Commando for a class writeup in Delver Magazine!  The Soldier as the Shooting Wall works fine.  I like that Armor is his Excellent skill instead of Weapons.  It fits the Tank aspect nicely.

COMMENTS ON THE LATEST VERSION

I like the Introduction.  The "What is DD" is bumpy.

The Rivals sidebar is okay.  You may want a sidebar defining Space Opera and your thoughts on what DD should feel like.   I am also unsure what the plural of DM should be? DMs or DM's?

I really like the idea of trading in your found items for XP.  That nicely fits the theme.  Of course, the XP bonus would have to be notable.  Maybe level also has an aspect of rank within Archive?  

The name blurbs in the race sections is an interesting idea, but you might want a slightly larger offering for each one, laden with story hooks in addition to offering brush strokes of the setting.   Like Rha Utte who cured Panuan Pox might me more interesting as Rha Utte who vanished after claiming she found the cure to the dread Panuan Pox.  The 4e PHB did something like the character blurb, but I felt they somewhat missed the mark.

I like the biology breakdown on the races.  That was a cool aspect of Star Frontiers.  I once saw a game try that with fantasy and it was weird, but a bio-breakdown is cool with sci-fi.

The racial charts offer great bonuses and abilities.  Pure Humans seem dorked.  Or is DD a place where there aren't really any Pure Humans?  Instead, everybody has their oddity?  That could actually be cool.  Or maybe, there needs to be 01-30 Earth Man on the Feature list which offers its own bonus. Maybe +1 Attack bonus considering how warlike they are?

I always feel these charts are like getting candy on Halloween.  "I got rocks" is always unfun.  At worst, every table selection should provide some marshmallow Peeps or candy corn.

The humanoids have a 30% chance of Unsual Head Shape, but there is no corresponding table.  Make some weird heads!  Though, I am unsure how many weird heads there are.  Maybe Unusual Body Shape instead?  Extra arms, gigantism, dwarfism (now with Scottish accents), amphibious, etc?

Why no Blue skin on the chart?  

In regards to Charisma, how will it be part of a Derelict search?  How does it avoid being a dump stat?

I am a bit confused about Esper's Mindlock.  Is it like a Dispel Magic?

I am unclear how the Pilot's 3rd level power works.  Will it be detailed more in the Space Combat section?

I like the idea you can have a Delver team without a pilot.  And I am cool with the PCs having to hire transport (or rent a ship) to get to derelicts, especially at early levels.

I like the 9th level scout ability...but it needs a shorter name!  Good subtitle though.  The scout is a good choice for the WTF miracles that happen in space opera.

I am unsure if the 7th level Soldier ability is impressive enough.   Does Intimidate have significant effect in DD?  AKA, can his presence in a combat more likely break morale?

Also, since the Soldier does not have the Medicine skill, how do they roll a Healing roll during combat using their 9th level ability?

Chain Axe!  Awesome!  Blood for the blood god!

I like that primitive weapons can't parry advanced tech.  However, how does Parrying work?  Do you use your Weapon Skill + 10 for Defense when in melee?

I am unclear on the Difficulty chart.  At first level, an unskilled person with no bonus can succeed at a Hard task 70% of the time.   But at 10th level, they would fail 70% of the time when doing the same thing.

I love the Artifacts of Renown.  Both are awesome and scream out plot hooks, especially D'amaan's Device.   Looking forward to more of those.

In the type of Derelict chart, what does Small / Medium / Large mean exactly?  Is a Small craft like a shuttle?   Also, the percentages seems strange.  AKA, there is the same chance of finding a Small craft as finding a Ruined Metropolis?

I was trying to keep the chart design consistent across the board for ease of use and simplicity.

I can tweak them though for rarer things.

What should the different skin colors do? Or Head shapes? That's the biggest problem. If I'm trying to give everything a bonus, they need to make some logical sense--without too much stretching. So I'm willing to take suggestions.

Fixed a few things. I'm still looking for good quotes for a few things but its hard since I've not seen/read every possible space opera work.

Derelict Delvers (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DerelictDelversplaytest.pdf)

More cleaning up, a few fixes and changes. Still trucking onward. Derelict Delvers (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/DerelictDelversplaytest.pdf)

February was a busy month for me, so not as much done as I'd like.

Level group titles, stuff on Heroism Points.

A few other things.


Here (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/DerelictDelversplaytest.pdf)

I'm reading it now. So far, looks good and I like the "retrospectives".

1) I want to be able to play an Earthman without feeling dorked because I didn't roll on the kewl powerz chart!  How about a +1 Attack bonus to reflect our savagery?  

2) The Humanoid Features Chart has 30% to have a tail.  You already have a Cat-People race option for the fur-curious gamers.  I'd knock that down to 10% or 20% max.

3) Check your numbering on the Tables 1C-1F.

4) I still think the doubling XP chart is far too steep for actual 21st century play.  

5) The class titles are a good idea.  Should the class titles represent some rank within Archive?   Does any bonus / responsiblity come with specific titles?  Should the titles have some correlation to the 1/3/5/7/9 gaining of class special abilities?

6) Esper class abilities & skills look good.  The class feels complete.

7) I'd rather see Tech Spec ->Scientist ->Inventor ->Innovator->Scientist General for the Engineer.  "Scientist" seem more competant than a Tech, but not as much as Innovators.

8) Medic should become Surgeon General at 20th.  

9) Definitely expand upon the Medic's combat role when you do the class description.

10) I like the Scout more.  He's all about being a tough SOB and surviving anything the galaxy throws at him.   Very playable.  He's a space dwarf!

Quote from: Spinachcat;3652421) I want to be able to play an Earthman without feeling dorked because I didn't roll on the kewl powerz chart!  How about a +1 Attack bonus to reflect our savagery?  

Secret 1: There are no Earthmen. (Shhhh the Earthmen that were? Are now the Ancients! That is going to mentioned in the book when done and not hidden away...just not in the freebie game.)

Quote2) The Humanoid Features Chart has 30% to have a tail.  You already have a Cat-People race option for the fur-curious gamers.  I'd knock that down to 10% or 20% max.

Good Point I was trying to keep the charts consistent with one another, but I need some more hacking at them.

Quote4) I still think the doubling XP chart is far too steep for actual 21st century play.  

Well considering you can turn in your wealth for experience instead of credits, I thought it balanced out in the long run.


Thanks for the comments as always.

Shipyards!

What else would you suggest for ships?

Beam Cannon
Beam Gun (Heavy machine gun type)
Berths
Drive
Escape Pod
Computer
Communications Array
Cargo Bay
Fighter Bay
Enhanced Sensor
Inertial Distributors
Maneuver Thrusters
Mine Dropper
Missile Tube
Life Support
Passenger Pod
Stateroom
Stealth System
Tractor Beam
Pilot Pod
Reactor
STL Thrusters
Turret
Vehicle Bay (Ground/Air vehicles)



Each of these "pods" require support areas so a Turret pod needs 1/2 a pod of extra support. (Two turrets would count as 3 pods total--1/2 for each turrent and 1 for supporting those two turrets.)

 Plus all have a drain on the Reactors. However, that's an ongoing drain not a "keep track of every minute" drain.

You seem to be missing an FTL system.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;365314You seem to be missing an FTL system.

That's what the "Drive" is designed for--and of course pilots determine how fast a drive is by their skill at piloting. I can go add "FTL" to it though.

Quote from: Silverlion;365326That's what the "Drive" is designed for--and of course pilots determine how fast a drive is by their skill at piloting. I can go add "FTL" to it though.

That would be a useful keyword to add. :)

You need to explain terms before they are used in the classes. The organization could be massively cleaned up and it's rather unfinished. The combat system could use a bit of cleaning up an initiative is a bit "meh". The game desperately needs a Table of Contents.

Now, for the good parts: The abilities are, for the most part, useful and thematic. The classes cover the majority of what will be needed. I love the derelict charts and the racial charts. The equipment lists are relatively unique and interesting (In a good way), as are the monster details. I actually enjoyed reading them. I love the blue "in-character" text boxes.

Suggestions: Add some derelict maps and a few simple default adventures. Make one of each solo play. Expand on character creation so people have a "list" of some sort to go down. Keep the explanation that it's an "AU" game - That is, if history had been different - At the top. Maybe add some optional random "Class Feature" tables

Once the finished version is released, I'll be very tempted to buy it...

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;365539You need to explain terms before they are used in the classes. The organization could be massively cleaned up and it's rather unfinished. The combat system could use a bit of cleaning up an initiative is a bit "meh". The game desperately needs a Table of Contents.

Now, for the good parts: The abilities are, for the most part, useful and thematic. The classes cover the majority of what will be needed. I love the derelict charts and the racial charts. The equipment lists are relatively unique and interesting (In a good way), as are the monster details. I actually enjoyed reading them. I love the blue "in-character" text boxes.

Suggestions: Add some derelict maps and a few simple default adventures. Make one of each solo play. Expand on character creation so people have a "list" of some sort to go down. Keep the explanation that it's an "AU" game - That is, if history had been different - At the top. Maybe add some optional random "Class Feature" tables

Once the finished version is released, I'll be very tempted to buy it...

Thanks! Considering I'm planning on releasing a "Basic" Edition for free. (Levels 1-3 or 1-5) that is a compliment. It is very rough, and I'm still hammering at it. I am a bit of a completest so I like to make sure all the important aspects are covered. The full game with art will be for sale though. Levels 1-20.

New pulpyier psychic powers:

Esper Abilities

As mentioned under the class, Espers have access to some powerful abilities. Unfortunately they must have sufficient energy charge to power the effect they want. An Esper may choose to use any ability under any category but they must meditate and ready the psychic charge ahead of time. (After a period of rest, is most typical.) The charge is then alloted to a specific ability until it is used.

Espers can also drop 1 point of charge to switch to any other power and activate it at their new charge level. That is an Esper with 3 charges could lose 1 charge, and activate a previously unprepared 2 charge power.


Apportation:

 Summon Object  (1 Charge)
The Esper can summon an inanimate object within his unaided visual range to his hand. The object must fit reasonably within his hand and cannot weigh more than 2lbs. Time: Instant. Additional Charges: Multiple objects. If the object is being held they may make a Dex save to retain the object, (D#10)

 Warp Shield: (2 Charges)
The Esper creates an apport field in front of them that absorbs ranged attacks sending them to a nebulous "elsewhere." The field is unstable at best and merely creates a +4 Defense increase. Melee attacks and psychic attacks are unaffected. The shield lasts for 1d6+1 rounds. Additional Charges:  Longer Duration (additional 1d6+1 rounds per charge.)
 
 Warp Lamp (3 charges)
The Esper apports light from another location. The apported light carries only minimal warmth and heat. It is sufficient to generate a 30' sphere of light around its location. Normally it appears floating near the Esper and can be directed within 5' of the creator. The light lasts for 2d6 rounds per charge. Additional Charges: Longer Duration (+2d6)


 Warp Bomb (4 charges)
By teleporting compressed air towards a target the energy used ignites the oxygen into a dangerous conflagration which explodes when it arrives at its destination. Range: 60'   Damage: 4d6. Additional Charges: Increase damage. (4d6)
 


Flicker (5 charges)
An apporting Esper can teleport rabidly between two nearby locations to make attacking them difficult. An attacker makes their attack roll as normal but if it strikes, and is an odd number. The attack actually misses as it passes through their reporting after-image. On an even to hit roll, the attack lands as normal. (This only accounts for the actual roll. Not including modifiers)  The flickering effect lasts for 1d6+1 rounds  Additional Charges: Increased duration (1d6+1 rounds)


 Jaunt (6 charges)
An Esper with this power charged can easily teleport significant distances. A jaunting Esper can cross up to 3 miles with a simple power check and activation of this power, so long as that distance is within their visual distance. Additional Charges: Increase Range, Or allows them to transport one additional willing person who is in contact with them.


Teleport (7 charges)
Espers with full scale teleport charged can move back and forth between several locations at will for the duration of the spell. Not as long ranged as Jaunt, it still has a significant range of 1 mile. Plus the sustained duration which lets them make multiple hops. Range: 1mile  Duration: 2d6 rounds Additional Charge Duration (+2d6 rounds)


Portal (8 charges)
Able to open a sustained portal between two points at great distance. This power allows for rapid deployment or safe return to a ship when needed. A portal is usually 10' diameter and can be crossed through from either side.  Range: 10 miles Duration: 2d6  minutes. Additional Charges: Duration. +2d6 minutes




Defense Port (9 Charges)
Once this power is activated it waits until the Esper is down to 1 Heroism Point. When they reach that level they teleport to the nearest safe area within reach. If there is no locations the Defense port power move them at least out of immediate reach of their foe if possible. Range: 2d6 miles Additional Charges: Range (+2d6 miles)

Teleport Foes (10 charges)
Another defensive port this one when activated teleports any hostile being or robot within 20' feet "away" from the Esper. The effect teleports them randomly 1d6 miles or the farthest not immediately hostile location within that rolled range. Additional Charges: Radius +20', Range: +1d6 miles


Phase (11 charges)
Utilizing their apportation ability to set their body slightly out of phase with the molecular structure of materials around them allows the Esper to become a ghostlike figure, passing through walls with easy. They are immune to most attacks (Electrical attacks do half damage and Psychic attacks do full damage) when phased but cannot interact with anything except via the use of their psychic powers. Duration: 2d6 rounds Additional Charges: Duration (+2d6 rounds)


I still need to finish up apportations' other 7 levels and move on to Empathy. Ideas so far for Empathy:




Empathy
 Beguilement
 Sense Hostility
 Revitalize
 Inspire
 Apathy
 Alliance
 Psychosomatic Illness
 Golden Lure
 Enrage
 Terrify
 Apathy Field
 Emotion Storm
 Revulsion
 Living Nightmare
 Adoration Field
 


Don't worry, I'm still keeping Mind Bullet..:D

Here's another one I forgot: The esper powers - I'm sorry - Are a bit too "spell-like" in flavour and a bit too little "psionic-like".

That may be intentional, but..."OD&D in space" won't be as good (IMO) as "if OD&D was sci-fi", if you get the difference.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;365644Here's another one I forgot: The esper powers - I'm sorry - Are a bit too "spell-like" in flavour and a bit too little "psionic-like".

That may be intentional, but..."OD&D in space" won't be as good (IMO) as "if OD&D was sci-fi", if you get the difference.

Working on that--see above. They still need to be somewhat level relevant and resource based. Rather vague and narrative like cinematic fiction of psychics

Hmm...For constructive, making "Warp Bomb" a Sonic attack from the exploding compressed air would make it have less of a "Fireball" vibe.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;365651Hmm...For constructive, making "Warp Bomb" a Sonic attack from the exploding compressed air would make it have less of a "Fireball" vibe.

Ooh. Nice! Good idea.

I'll fix that.

Is there a new playtest draft?

Not yet. I've been working on it.
I can make what I have available. (Psychic powers are more filled out but not complete) I've been more than a bit busy, sadly.



I think I need to turn Respirate and Hydrate into Survival or even Life Support.

Derelict Delvers  (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/DerelictDelversMay.pdf), May Update

I'm working on the June update as I can. Fixing a few more issues, but its been slow. (Health Reasons.)

Any things that needs fixing?

A few more fixes: Are the Level powers/abilities too over the top? Are the names too silly? I've got a few more classes to go.

Derelict Delvers June (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DerelictDelversJune.pdf)

THOUGHTS ON JUNE UPDATE

1) The damages for various biological powers look high compared to weapons.
Heavy Tail and Beam Blade are both D10?

2) There should be some mechanical effect for being Small or Large (felinoids).

3) What about Multi-classing?

4) I am unclear on the difference between the 13th and 15th level Engineer abilities.  Also, I suggest they gain their retainers before they can create artefacts.  AKA, they would need a team + lab to make such greatness.

5) Fear is the Mind Killer should work if they are suffering ongoing damage.  Its mind over pain.

6) In Mind One, the Psi Lord's students can make psychic items, but I don't see where the Psychic gained that ability to do on his own.  Is it a communal crafting only?   Also if the Engineer can create new items, shouldn't the Psychic learn to create new powers, AKA how wizards can do spell research?

7) Maybe the Medic gain some ability to determine information about a creature's special abilties simply by viewing them?  AKA, some mental catalogue of biological combos.   Also, what about something akin to the Vulcan nerve pinch?  AKA, some non-lethal way of dealing with foes thanks to his knowledge of anatomy.

8) I get a belt?  Nope, I get a AUB/H-101, Archive Utility Belt/Harness.  And it better have a cool image too.   I like the idea of a badass space belt with ties to ENC rules.   And make backpacks cooler too.   I'd love the belt to be part of the character sheet somehow.

9) The equipment costs look low.  4D6x20 means 280 on average.   Why not go classic and do 3D6 x 10?

10) Have you crunched the probabilities per level for the Psi powers and how often they will function?   The D#s look high.   Can they "Take 20" for stuff?

11) Overall, the Psychic Powers are good.   Keep it up and feel free to make more DD-unique powers (AKA, powers that only make sense in a world where dudes raid old spaceships) and warped interpretations of D&D spells.  

12) I like the drug-pusher aspect of the Medic and I love what he can do with a medkit.    Except find another word for Puissance.  Again, the D#s look too high.

13) Instead of losing your action to parry, what about giving the option for using your Arms Skill + 10 as your Defense in mele combat?  

14) Critical hits do x2 max damage AND ignore AB?   Thus 5% of the time, a Storm Pike does 26 damage?

15) Grappling is confusing.

16) Tracking multiple hits by Ignite weapons is gonna be pain.   What about just making it damage die - 2 and the effect ends if 0 damage is scored?  Or just have the damage die rolled each round until the target makes his save?  

Also, Jan the soldier is a tranny.  Check the pronouns.

17) Suppressive Fire is confusing.  How does it make targets duck for cover?

18) Does armor get damaged?  

19) Smite means Critical hits aren't automatic?  Smite does x2 rolled damage and doesn't appear to ignore AB.   What if smite could be activated on any hit?    

20) I really love the ideas of burning HP to do cool stuff.   Certainly adds another level to the resource management aspect of the game.

Thank you as always for the feedback. Stuff to keep working on. It help if I could print this stuff out for my game group at the moment, as it is its me running it.

I did try and go the D&D Spells warped for Psi powers but it felt odd, since technology and scanners can do a lot of what D&D magic was meant to--but I'll think on it some more.

I need more non-combat powers for Espers, I wonder what I can come up with for that as well.

I like your second solution for ignite. It makes sense.



I'm not sure on multiclassing rules yet. This is basically the BASIC D&D in space game, it does have more flexibility since races aren't classes. I feel that skills often cover gaps in classes but not completely so one of each class is a good bet in play, but not necessary for play.

 


I'll look at the D#'s for powers again. I was looking at the level I wanted the power to work and taking a stat of +1+Skill they should have to determine the original numbers for the first power tree, and repeated that tree systematically through all of them. Take a look with that in mind and see if you think they're still too high. I've been testing them but it takes a while to get up to the high level stuff, and I want it to be tested at all levels.


As for weapons, they look right--remember improved items--artifacts, increase damage as you add pluses too. An artifact (but not Item of Renown) Beam Gun with a +3 bonus does 2d10+3 rather than a mere 1d10. I do need to tweak the whip though. I don't want all combat to be "I roll again, yawn, and do my tinkering amount of damage" when you should have Soldiers as capable as Espers. Should I make it so they add their level to damage as a part of their first level weapon specialization ability? With just that one weapon?


My example for powers: the Stamina Booster should be something a 2nd level character can do with a lot luck, and talent, and a 5th level would be second nature.


D#20   Stamina Stimulator
The medic can medically boost the bodies endurance and resistance to exhaustion. They give the target a +2 boost to Con for a number of rounds equal to the medic's level.


Medic with +1 Int, level 2 (+4 medicine) needs to roll a 15 or higher. It's not reliable but its a chance.
Medic with +1 Int Level 5 (+7 medicine) needs to roll a 12 or higher. Hrms. Maybe you are right. Drop it by 2? or 5?

The goal is to let them do the next power in the tree reliably every three levels or so. Should it be every 2? If we make every 3 levels reliably that may put high end powers out of reach sooner.
I was thinking Level 20 PC should be able to do the last power in the trees:

Example:
Hyperjaunt (D#43)
An Esper who can manage to reach such heights of concentration can make jaunt-like teleport across intersteller distances. Their range is great enough to be of no concern in a normal Delvers game. They may carry a number of people equal to their level within 30' to their chosen locations.

A 20th level Esper can reach that target number with a +1 Will, Skill 22 and a Roll of 20. VERY very difficult. But he's got slightly above average will and this isn't his focused path.

If he's upped his will--by 20th level he should probably have +3 or so Will (if that's what he's focused on add his skill of 22, for a base of 25 and a +4 because this is his path is: 29 vs a D#of 43 means he has to roll a 14. It isn't reliable of course but its a better than average shot at working one of the tougher abilities.


I might need to drop the middle tier powers. It seems that low powers D#10 fit alright. (Since they need only a roll of 10 or higher to initiate it without any bonuses. )

21) Grams are weird because they are so small.  I have trouble visualizing 1/453rd of a pound.  

22) I like the idea of trading stuff for either Cash or XP.  However, the XP is only 1/5th the value which seems low.   Is that because we are expected to be hauling away huge loads of stuff?   I imagine the first question is going to be "how much XP for dragging back the whole ship?"

That was always a problem in Traveller.  As soon as they cash in even a small ship, they are gazillionaires.  How do you create a world where finding a forsaken battlecruiser is like finding an abandoned RV?  AKA, the stuff instead the RV could be worth more even though the RV itself will bring a good price, just not one that equals game over.

In a super-tech galaxy, ships might be made very cheaply.  Its just an engine, a power plant and a superstructure.

23) I like how you can use XP to modify monsters.  However, I am unsure about a strict 25 x level x players progression.  Assume 4 players and by 3rd level, they are facing 300 XP worth of monsters in an encounter.   Are they really able to face x3 the foes from 1st level?

24) I want to hear more about the Machine Empire.   And its cool if its just woven throughout as tidbits and sidebars.   BTW, I hope the final product has lots of cool sidebars.

25) How does the Population Appearing number work with the XP Encounter Math?  Would it be better to describe them as Solitary, Pack, Horde, etc so the DM knows how they should be organized?  Also, what about mixed encounters?  

26) What is the DD version of multi-colored dragons?

27) Is there instantaneous communication across the galaxy ala Star Trek or Star Wars?  Or is it pony express like Traveller?

28) How FTL is FTL?   Are we 1 day FTL travel = 1 light year?  Or are we doing Traveller like jumps?  If so, how long are we in jumpspace?   I like the idea that a pilot's skill determines the speed, AKA "kessel run in 12 parsecs" Can you find +1 Engines?

If pilot skill can get you from Point A to B faster, then some kind of "Kessel Run" power for Pilots would be cool that lets master pilots really cut down the travel time.

BTW, if the baseline was 1 day travel = 1 light year, you actually still could use Cold Sleep for those mission that want to go 1000 light year away.   Even a 40 light year journey would require resource allocation for crew, supplies, etc like a D&D hexcrawl campaign.

29) What about Ship to Ship Combat?  

30) I don't like how Load is in fractions.  Too fiddly.   1/3 + 1/4 + 1/2 isn't math anyone needs in a game.   I am also unsure about the -X for Reactor use.   Instead, they should add Load up the Reactor Max Load.  Hmm...how does one over-Load a reactor?

31) I don't think Reason for Abandonment should be a random payment.   It should be based on the size of the Derelict and maybe its age.  

32) A Neutral AI should not be most common in galaxy that fears AIs.  Instead, make Malign the most common (say 11-50).   How does the Natural Evolved AI differ than others?

The Derelict chart is coming along nicely.   I am looking forward to seeing what you do in regarding to setting up interiors / chambers, etc.

Quote from: Silverlion;388508It help if I could print this stuff out for my game group at the moment, as it is its me running it.

Have you posted a campaign log?  It would be interesting to see how adventures and the player/universe interaction are developing.

Quote from: Silverlion;388508I'll look at the D#'s for powers again. I was looking at the level I wanted the power to work and taking a stat of +1+Skill they should have to determine the original numbers for the first power tree, and repeated that tree systematically through all of them.

A D#25 action...
Assume +3 ability bonus
3rd level = +8 so 17+ or 25%
5th level = +10 so 15+ or 35%
10th level = +15 so 10+ or 50%
15th level = +20 so 5+ or 75%

If you drop the D# to 20 then add +25% to all odds.

3rd = 50%
5th = 65%
10th = 75%
15th = 100%

I see the +4 from Boost being very important.  The problem is they lose their Armor Skill and that's rough.  How is that working with your players?

Boost adds +20% which doesn't blow.   Plus, I could spend 1 HP to Second Chance and Boost that one as well.  

I guess the most important question is how often do you want success versus failure?  A Take 20 option works great for non-combat when you want XYZ to happen and don't want the player rolling over and over and they have plenty of time to sit around.  

Of course, the Esper doesn't have a Vancian brain and can now "cast" all day long so that does allow for a higher failure rate.

Quote from: Silverlion;388508As for weapons, they look right--remember improved items--artifacts, increase damage as you add pluses too.

True, but the basic tech weapons seem wimpy and the artifact ones are really kickass.  

And the artifact damage becomes really notable with Smite.  That +3 Beamgun does 4D10+6 or 28 average damage with Smite and crits for 86?

Quote from: Silverlion;388508Should I make it so they add their level to damage as a part of their first level weapon specialization ability? With just that one weapon?

Soldiers should definitely add Level to Damage with all weapons, including ship cannons and such.

Quote from: Spinachcat;388521And the artifact damage becomes really notable with Smite.  That +3 Beamgun does 4D10+6 or 28 average damage with Smite and crits for 86?



Soldiers should definitely add Level to Damage with all weapons, including ship cannons and such.

That's pretty true, I've done the latter, would you look at the powers again and tell me if you think they're too powerful? I was trying to keep their power levels to their target number, but I may have over done it.

Quote from: Silverlion;389285That's pretty true, I've done the latter, would you look at the powers again and tell me if you think they're too powerful? I was trying to keep their power levels to their target number, but I may have over done it.

Give me two weeks.   I am prepping for PolyCon this week and I'm usually gamed out for a few days post-con.

Quote from: Spinachcat;389430Give me two weeks.   I am prepping for PolyCon this week and I'm usually gamed out for a few days post-con.

No worries. Also if you know of any "D&D" style Delving powers to fit into one of the categories let me know. Right now I like where the (Adjusted) powers are--mostly a little less damage, and durations/ranges, with the lower target numbers have made me happy for the pulp side of things. I don't just want to COPY D&D, it isn't a SF retroclone per se. Although I wish to nudge the line.

Fixing a few things. I've strayed a bit off track, so I've decided to stop, and redo a few things. I still need suggestions, of course, but I think I'm going to do some heavy revision--let me know what you think Spinachcat! (Or anyone else for that matter:

Here is my re-design sheet trying to focus on classes special abilities;


A mini-poll suggests that new abilities hat don't overlap (at least directly or make old abilities obsolete, is preferred)

Split Heroism Points into Health and Heroism? That way PC's won't need to spend health to be lucky? A re-occurring issue more than one playtester has had and I've resisted changing.

Health: 1d10+Con Heroism: Based on Class?

Soldiers:
Armored warriors who can take and dish damage. Good at sustained combat.

Scouts
Survivors/Explorers, can sneak, unleash a focus shot, and retreat. Good at burst combat, and exploration

Medics
Healers, Social Class, able to heal and buff the party, can also exploit foes weak spots

Engineers
Builders, breakers, and designers, good at understanding gear, exploring delver locations, and making sure stuff works.

Espers
Psychics, good at willpower, able to unleash devastating mental attacks, good at locking down foes and setting things up for anyone to take advantage.


Espers and Medics special powers have a score, equal to their skill+appropriate stat+medikit or Esper enhancer items. Score must be so High to initiate some powers.

So Esper Skill 3 + Will 2 has Esper Rating: 5, and he can activate Espers Powers ranked 5 or below with a skill roll.

Engineers:
Special abilities per Level
1: Kitbash, Make 1 shot common gear, spend HP
3:Universal Tool, repairs without tools at no penalty (spend HP?)
5:Master of Machines +4 to machines construction repair/ by spending HP
7: Jury Rig: Can temporarily repair something without proper materials.
9: Brilliant Breakthrough (improve gear's range/duration/damage one category)  +4/+4 max bonus. (or double range/ammo rating)
13:  
15:
17:
19:
20:


Espers:
Special Abilities per Level
1:  Psychic Powers Access, Esper powers are accessible (One Path?)
3: Power Boost, Can spend HP to get +2 Power Strength.
5: Psionic Conflict, Mind to Mind battle with other Esper
7: Psychic Disruption, Can make others Esper powers shutdown or harder to activate. (New Path available?)
9: Battlemind. Use Psychic abilities to enhance combat.
13:
15:
17:
19:
20:

Medic:
1:  Triage, can diagnose and cure without med kit.
3: Emergency Response, can spend a heroism point to re-roll a medical check. Medikit Powers
5: Sanctuary, No penalties to healing when in combat, usually protected as last target
7: He's not dead. May make a re-roll for a resuscitate to one hour after the fallen body is found.
9: Medical Authority. Can override computers, robots, and Starship in medical emergencies.
13:
15:
17:
19:
20



Pilots:
1: Inspiring Speech: Can give back team 1d10 HP with short rousing speech, and +2 to actions
3: Cut it Close, Can make very tight maneruvers +2 to Defense in or out of vehicle
5: I call her Stella, Gets a ship
7:  Pull Together, Can give group +1 Synergy Bonus for all people on team working on same task
9: Wing and a Prayer, Hold together ship/vehicle or gear for a little longer.
13:
15:
17:
19:
20


Scouts:
1:  Hardiness, +2 to Environmental related hazard saves
3: Stealth, +2 bonus to Stealth/Sneaking actions
5: Ambush, can make surprise attack for auto-critical (direct to health, ranged or melee)
7: Killed him a bear. Use small arms against low/animal level sapience/ enemies.
9: Boon Companion, Ally alien guide, or critter.
13:Little trick I learned on, Spend HP to perform mystic feats of hunting or survival.
15:
17:
19:
20

Soldiers
1:  Weapon Specialist, Bonus to hit with chosen weapon/add level to total damage.
3:   Shrug it off, Spend HP to ignore penalties/injuries
5:  Torrent Fire, AOE autofire
7:  Heroic Surge, Spend 1 HP for +4 bonus when allies impaired
9:  Battle Tactics, Give advice to allies for +4 bonus
13:
15:
17:
19:
20.


As you can see higher levels have gaps, I need to fill in--I've decided to be as consistent as possible. 1-3 abilities should give a +2, 5-9 a +4, 13-17 a +6, and 19-20, a +8


Some consistent problems I have is I'm really not fond of limiting the Psychic to one path of powers. I always hate that in RPG's (Trinity) because Psychics seem to be undervalued then, and I like them, which is a good reason to let them use any path but only up to their Tier. It also means re-doing all the target numbers consistently for each Tier, and that becomes just another "level" ability rather than being able to access any and all with the right skill boosts.

Stil, this is  a rough alternative, I'm torn between this being a near-clone, and making it from the ground up what would have been written with different inspirations. They don't have to conflict, but in my version they seem too.

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Split Heroism Points into Health and Heroism? That way PC's won't need to spend health to be lucky? A re-occurring issue more than one playtester has had and I've resisted changing.

Health: 1d10+Con Heroism: Based on Class?

Back in the late 1970s, I started splitting D&D style Hit Points into "body points" (actual damage that takes a long time -- days -- to health) and "energy points", often called "fatigue points" or even just "hit points", that represents dodging out of the way, minor cuts and scrapes with no long term effects, etc. that heals quickly (a full night's rest). Doing extraordinary things like casting spells, the actions you list as costing Heroism points around page 86-87, etc. all cost these energy points.

Damage comes off of energy first, then body. Exception, critical hits do one body point damage of per weapon hit die even if the character has enough energy points to absorb the damage.

This has worked well for years for me. You might want to try some variation of it.

Makes sense Randall. I appreciate it. I'm trying to keep some of the simplicity of Basic/Cyclopedia D&D while still giving everyone some niche abilities that go beyond a fighters "hit it with a stick better/faster.."

Still there is an elegant simplicity in that, and the Heroism points let them do a lot more. So I'm not sure if I should keep all or most of the special abilities.
It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

Quote from: Silverlion;390421Makes sense Randall. I appreciate it. I'm trying to keep some of the simplicity of Basic/Cyclopedia D&D while still giving everyone some niche abilities that go beyond a fighters "hit it with a stick better/faster.."

Still there is an elegant simplicity in that, and the Heroism points let them do a lot more. So I'm not sure if I should keep all or most of the special abilities.
It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

The question is, does it need to be more like D&D? Remember, you're not writing a remake - You're writing an alternate universe version.

Quote from: Silverlion;390421It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

I don't think so. Of course, I started playing when what "D&D was" could be -- and generally was -- very different from group to group. Variations, even major variations, on the rules were the norm. While there are a lot of "rules purists" among the Internet Old School crowd today, rules purists were few and far between back in the 1970s.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;390426The question is, does it need to be more like D&D? Remember, you're not writing a remake - You're writing an alternate universe version.

Very true, which is why I've been defending my designs to my "negative" side.

I think it will work out, I'm trying to expand play a bit through 20 levels with LOTS of fun stuff every so often. To keep players happy with new shiny stuff, but without making it so game breaking or even "rules exceptions."

I have been thinking about Dungeon vs. Derelict ecology.

When we enter a dungeon, there are no immediate concerns for Air or Gravity.   In a derelict, why would there be Air or Gravity?  Don't most of the monsters need both of these?   How many will not?

What happens to a Delver who gets damaged in a vacuum?   Does all armor simply auto-seal?  

Certainly, rules for explosive decompression, dealing with vacuum and suffocation will be important.  

If the players come upon a ship with oxygen, I can see them just wanting to blow the life support system, wait for the monsters to die and then just go looting.  How can you minimize the usefulness of this tactic?    The "crystal ball + teleport" tactic is a bane of high level D20 and maybe even easier here.

Certainly critters like Augs can operate ship machinery and keep the life support going.  Of course, if they can do that, why haven't they gotten the engines and guns online too?   That would be a working ship, not a derelict.

I can see many derelicts shutting down and waiting until they were boarded or received a signal of some sort before turning their power back on, initiating life support and defrosting their cold sleeps.    Certainly, an Aug clan could do that as they float through the void.

And since DD isn't hard science, you can answer some of these questions with "High Tech Magic" as long as its defined in the system/setting stuff.

Quote from: Spinachcat;392457I have been thinking about Dungeon vs. Derelict ecology.

When we enter a dungeon, there are no immediate concerns for Air or Gravity.   In a derelict, why would there be Air or Gravity?  Don't most of the monsters need both of these?   How many will not?

What happens to a Delver who gets damaged in a vacuum?   Does all armor simply auto-seal?  

Certainly, rules for explosive decompression, dealing with vacuum and suffocation will be important.  

If the players come upon a ship with oxygen, I can see them just wanting to blow the life support system, wait for the monsters to die and then just go looting.  How can you minimize the usefulness of this tactic?    The "crystal ball + teleport" tactic is a bane of high level D20 and maybe even easier here.

Certainly critters like Augs can operate ship machinery and keep the life support going.  Of course, if they can do that, why haven't they gotten the engines and guns online too?   That would be a working ship, not a derelict.

I can see many derelicts shutting down and waiting until they were boarded or received a signal of some sort before turning their power back on, initiating life support and defrosting their cold sleeps.    Certainly, an Aug clan could do that as they float through the void.

And since DD isn't hard science, you can answer some of these questions with "High Tech Magic" as long as its defined in the system/setting stuff.

Good ideas, I've been working on those concepts in my head. I know some suits auto seal, but not all. I also imagined that part of the issues with blowing life support means you have to know where it is--what it does--and how to work it--there is no guarantee with Derelicts being designed clearly enough to know. Alien ideas, Ancients, and more, all confound the easy understanding. An engineer with a map, and a powered system/scanners might figure it out. Yet that's going to be a tough task, unless its just another Archive ship!

I am currently taking a two week break from messing with it--while I get the final aspects of High Valor done (print book sent to me, e-file for e-sales set up--at least when I have it. I also just need a break to read, play games, and not worry about "where/what/how"

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Split Heroism Points into Health and Heroism? That way PC's won't need to spend health to be lucky? A re-occurring issue more than one playtester has had and I've resisted changing.

Obviously the playtesters are the problem!  :)

I like the combo of Health/Luck in your HP.  I like the inherent choices and I like the idea of how the Medic restores your ability pool.  And its also minimizes the accounting.

That's always been the problem with Hit Points - they are this combo abstraction and nobody knows how much is your luck, how much is health and what exactly happens when a sword does 6 damage.   Does luck bleed?

What about this?  Let the player split them into Health and Heroism on their own.  Make the minimum in each pile be 1 point per level.  Thus if I have a 30 HP pool at 5th level, I could do 25/5 as a minimum and choose from there if I want to trade Health for Heroism.

But how does Heroism regen is separated from Health?

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Pilots:
1: Inspiring Speech: Can give back team 1d10 HP with short rousing speech, and +2 to actions

Maybe as a high level "Captain Kirk" power, but at low-med levels, the pilot should just be focussed on ship movement, ship protection and space combat.   Though "Pull Together" is a good mid-level "Away Team Leader" power.

Quote from: Silverlion;390226Some consistent problems I have is I'm really not fond of limiting the Psychic to one path of powers. I always hate that in RPG's (Trinity) because Psychics seem to be undervalued then, and I like them, which is a good reason to let them use any path but only up to their Tier.

What if Psychics can use their specialty as (Level + Will = Max Tier) and out-of-specialty powers as (Level = Max Tier)?  

So a 1st level, I could reach Tier 3 in my specialty and have access to all Tier 1 abilities.   That would be cool.  

Or go the Palladium route.  If you had the PPE, you could cast any spell you knew.  Back in 1983, it was revolutionary for 1st level mages to be throwing down anything bigger than Sleep.  

Thus you could have Espers get a +2 bonus with activing powers within their specialty, but they can attempt anything...but you Tier things just for reference so players know in general which powers are realistic to make happen at what level.

Quote from: Silverlion;390226I'm torn between this being a near-clone, and making it from the ground up what would have been written with different inspirations. They don't have to conflict, but in my version they seem too.

If you go off the Vancian reservation, you're off the near-clone wagon for many people.   So don't worry about that as much as what you feel is most fun when playing an Esper.

I am actually happy to have Espers cast paying HP.  It works fine in M74 clone.  I think that's the one where casters spend HP equal to the spell level.  

Quote from: Silverlion;390421So I'm not sure if I should keep all or most of the special abilities.  It's tough because I like what I have, but is that too far removed from D&D in terms of play?

I like the list.   I am unsure about Smite because I don't like activating criticals.  If I roll a 20, I want a critical.  

Quote from: RandallS;390447While there are a lot of "rules purists" among the Internet Old School crowd today, rules purists were few and far between back in the 1970s.

Very true.

You know. I've been stuck since I came off a break to recharge my brain, I think I'll tackle it again next week, but thank you Spinachcat for a very good post and some ideas.

Hi Silverlion!
Late to the party (I only just noticed the thread just then), but I've dl'd the June version and will have a look.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;397664Hi Silverlion!
Late to the party (I only just noticed the thread just then), but I've dl'd the June version and will have a look.

Thanks, pardon the mess, it is a rough draft so to speak.

Sorry it took so long to get back. Read over and then read through the thread.

I really like it as a setting, and it looks like a lot of fun. I liked the random-roll aspect of PC generation (But then, I'm a Gamma World fan). Tables could probably be simplified fairly easily down to just d10 if you wanted since you mostly work in 10% increments anyway - usually its roll twice on 91-95 and roll thrice on 96-00, which could just be roll 2-3 times (d2+1) on a roll of 10. Few minor typos and things (to be expected):  the main one to watch for is that (if I remember correctly) a possessive of a word ending in s should take an apostrophe i.e. "the races' technology"

The base 0 attribute system is quite workable (as seen in Talislanta and True 20/Mutants & Masterminds), the main drawback IMHO being how it handles ability damage.  Note +1 each 4 levels = +2 points on the d20 system normal scale; just for comparison, note True20 went to +1 mod every 6 levels.

I like the class features. I note you'd compressed Scientist and Engineer into one archetype (every Scotty is also a Spock), though that's probably a defensible decision give their fairly narrow roles. If you wanted to expand Medic role, I'd suggest you could add more general xenobiology related skills (if they can use medicine on any Delver race, they have to have a fair to good grasp on how aliens are put together and where their vital points are).

Looked like each class has a fairly well defined niche, but wondering how this plays out in practice - do characters tend to take turns in the limelight, and how badly does the game stop for everyone else when its the Pilot's turn or the Engineer's turn ?? Does the Medic have anything to do if people aren't injured. ? I particularly liked the Engineer, though I wasn't so sure about the higher-level abilities where they get minions - I know its the standard OD&D thing, but can you trade these out if your character has always been a lone wolf with a -3 Cha?

For Equipment: Encumbrance (pg 37) doesn't quite work (Str doesn't affect encumberance limit only Dex ?; and many characters will start with negative Dex). Not sure how much of a problem it'll be when you have a spaceship/vehicles. I thought the energy weapons were pretty cool, though wonder if you'll need primitive weapon stats for when they crash on some planet and savages attack.

I did have a couple of questions  that others have also thought of, too - i.e. how to do multiclassing? And, why aren't the principles of Ancient Tech rediscovered and become 'standard'?
Also, the format with the sidebars didn't quite work in the monsters section, I thought.

Quibbles aside, overall it looks pretty cool.
Cheers,
BSJ.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;398319Sorry it took so long to get back. Read over and then read through the thread.

Quibbles aside, overall it looks pretty cool.
Cheers,
BSJ.

Thanks, I know it needs a lot of work. Strange enough the Engineer and Scientist "combo," has something I've considered at great length. I could always go the AD&D2E route and have the classes be more related.

You'd have:

Warrior Types:
 Soldier
 Scout
 
Buffing Types
 Medic
 Esper

Science types
 Engineer
 Scientist


Of course I want to shove the Medic under science and the Pilot can go a little bit everywhere.


I've been thinking of something totally off kilter, in switching the mechanical concepts from D&D to D6 (Star Wars) though aiming at keeping the intent of play D&D like--all about strange wonder and horror in delving into alien places.

Yet I was wanting a I don't know, crescendo, of play.  That is the concept that as danger grows, and people challenge the unknown they actually get more capable mechanically. Not experience, but that like pulp or action stories they seem a bit unfocused at first, and yet they go from everyman to hero, by pushing themselves to that point.

Lots more work to be done.


Anyone have ideas? What makes for better classes? Pulp super scientists who do everything?

I think the fundamental mechanic will remain with a few tweaks.

I'm going to focus less on special abilities and more on general play with a few special abilities that can be magnified with HP.


Base dice roll mechanic:

2d10+Stat+Skill+Gear Vs D#10+Mods or 10+Stat+Skill+Gear of opposing party.

The D# and vs roll are read like so. Meet the number (partial success) since that has no modifiers or rolls on their side. Beat the number by 5 get full success. Beat by 10 get a Critical Success.

Have you seen the Paleo-Future blog?  Interesting looks at how the future was envisioned in the 1870s and beyond.  Worth a read.
//www.paleofuture.com  

Quote from: Silverlion;403876I'm going to focus less on special abilities and more on general play with a few special abilities that can be magnified with HP.

Did you read J Arcane's Drums of War?  Worth a look.

I do like class abilities and enjoy seeing a character develop deeper in his own niche, but maybe there should be Class Abilities at certain levels and then General Abilities to be picked from at other levels so people can customize their dudes. I do like the HP mechanic.

Of course, if you are harkening back to OD&D again, then maybe the "less is more" concept is good.  I have no idea.  

Also, what do you think of grubman's X-plorers?  
http://greyarea.webs.com/downloads/X-Free.pdf

Quote from: Silverlion;403876The D# and vs roll are read like so. Meet the number (partial success) since that has no modifiers or rolls on their side. Beat the number by 5 get full success. Beat by 10 get a Critical Success.

A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top?

Quote from: Spinachcat;404020Have you seen the Paleo-Future blog?  Interesting looks at how the future was envisioned in the 1870s and beyond.  Worth a read.
//www.paleofuture.com  




Did you read J Arcane's Drums of War?  Worth a look.


Also, what do you think of grubman's X-plorers?  
http://greyarea.webs.com/downloads/X-Free.pdf



A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top?

I like X-plorers, Dave is a friend of mine. Another friend who knew about DD previously got all bent out of shape over X-plorers on my behalf, but we seem to be taking totally opposite poles in development. It's a good game. No default aliens, not much of the "weird" in it though either. Maybe when the Halfling or whoever version comes out will get more of that.

I've not seen Drum's of War either. I like Paleo-Future :D

Your example:


A Scout shoots an Aug...what happens on a partial vs. full success vs. a critical one?

The Scout gets a partial success and nicks the Aug. The Aug takes half damage.

The Scout gets a full success and does full damage and causes any secondary effects: Ignite/Knockdown/etc.

The Scout gets a critical success, then his goal is achieved. That means regardless of health if his goal is to kill the Aug. It is killed. If it is to wound or run it off--then that happens.

I'm not sure on the exact numbers yet. So that may take a lot of testing.

If a Scout is climbing a wall...does a partial success just take longer to get to the top? [/B]

If the Scout makes a partial success he slips. Loses his grip, and needs to make a new test to regain it. Failure on the new test means he falls. Just like if  he failed on the first test. It does however allow you to get aid, or spend a heroism point, or plan a new path though.

 A full success means he makes that distance easily.

A critical means he does it easily, swiftly, and might be able to guide others up. Aid them as well. (The DM can allow the critical to help the whole party as a temporary +2 or something.) Although, sometimes a critical is the same as a success. Just prettier.

I was playing around with stuff in my head. I think that character creation will be simplified to speed play.

Characters choose race, puts its ability profile into the hexes, then choose profession, and put its ability profile into the other hexes. Then pick three alien traits: 1 gives a +4 bonus in rare circumstances, one gives +2 bonus in more common circumstances, and one gives a +1 to a single ability score.

Then the Delver gets two free +1's for their Ability profile to "tailor" their character and one free talent.

 Some Talents open up all new options, some professions give away talents (and those talents can only be obtained by joining that profession.) Other talents are just a small bonus to their rolls for certain tasks.



Prototype PC sheet.
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3032/ddpcsheetprototype.jpg)

Are there levels?

How do you gain new talents?

Can you gain additional Professions ala Warhammer?

If you are going to nuke skills (which is fine), then maybe weave them into additional ability scores.  Pilot, Medic, Engineer would be a good ones since every delver could have at least a +0 in these.   This might help to create more race / class options.

20 is the max health?  If so, how will damage work?  Just less damage per weapon?

Should there be a PSI defense? Maybe a Vigor defense?

Quote from: Spinachcat;404971Are there levels?

How do you gain new talents?

Can you gain additional Professions ala Warhammer?

If you are going to nuke skills (which is fine), then maybe weave them into additional ability scores.  Pilot, Medic, Engineer would be a good ones since every delver could have at least a +0 in these.   This might help to create more race / class options.

20 is the max health?  If so, how will damage work?  Just less damage per weapon?

Should there be a PSI defense? Maybe a Vigor defense?

Professions can be changed. They open up specific talents that one can only get if they change profession (Cost XP) things like a Pilot can get a ship, and an Esper gets Psionics. Some talents are available to everyone. Like "Two Fisted." for example. Talents can also be bought by experience. (Although not cheap since they make significant impact on play.)

Health will be fixed and weapons damage will be fixed except being modified by rolls (Partial Success, Full Success, Critical Success) and modifiers.

Health is based on Body+Profession Modifiers. It doesn't change much, but HP still does, and can soak damage. I figured everyone can fight a little (as per most pulp games.)

The idea is to make Profession+Race create a quick archetype, like Felinoid Scout, or Insectoid Engineer, and so on.

Of course I'm all for suggestions.  (I was tempted to make the second abilities Soldier, Scout, Scientist, Pilot, and Esper. Yet I wanted a bit more niche protection than letting people choose to be a little bit of everything.

Quote from: Silverlion;404980Professions can be changed. They open up specific talents that one can only get if they change profession (Cost XP) things like a Pilot can get a ship, and an Esper gets Psionics. Some talents are available to everyone. Like "Two Fisted." for example. Talents can also be bought by experience. (Although not cheap since they make significant impact on play.)

Health will be fixed and weapons damage will be fixed except being modified by rolls (Partial Success, Full Success, Critical Success) and modifiers.

Health is based on Body+Profession Modifiers. It doesn't change much, but HP still does, and can soak damage. I figured everyone can fight a little (as per most pulp games.)

The idea is to make Profession+Race create a quick archetype, like Felinoid Scout, or Insectoid Engineer, and so on.

Of course I'm all for suggestions.  (I was tempted to make the second abilities Soldier, Scout, Scientist, Pilot, and Esper. Yet I wanted a bit more niche protection than letting people choose to be a little bit of everything.

It seems to me you're no longer writing the same game. Whether that's good or bad is up to you. :)

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;404984It seems to me you're no longer writing the same game. Whether that's good or bad is up to you. :)

It's still old school. Just not "D&D is the only Old School." Pretty much the trap I was getting into was that a Sci Fi Version of D&D re-skinned was the only way to do a Sci Fi game written by the creators of our hobby. I don't think that's true. I sadly can't talk to them about it, but I can try my hand at something different.

If people think it should stay more D&D like it is possible to do that, I just think the cover art, the pulp space opera sensibilities, and the like, give me more room to maneuver good game material out of if I refocus it a bit.

Quote from: Silverlion;404987It's still old school. Just not "D&D is the only Old School." Pretty much the trap I was getting into was that a Sci Fi Version of D&D re-skinned was the only way to do a Sci Fi game written by the creators of our hobby. I don't think that's true. I sadly can't talk to them about it, but I can try my hand at something different.

If people think it should stay more D&D like it is possible to do that, I just think the cover art, the pulp space opera sensibilities, and the like, give me more room to maneuver good game material out of if I refocus it a bit.

Thought it should be said. :)

No problem, then. Rock on or something. :)

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;404995Thought it should be said. :)

No problem, then. Rock on or something. :)

 Would you prefer D&D as a Sci Fi game? I don't mind feedback/input and I very well be going the wrong direction. I can see keeping traditional stats, but I want to play up the pulp space opera/SF aspects. Another option I was contemplating when I was playing around was to keep the original stat line and making the classes a "stat" (really an ability tree.) You put a point in Soldier and have access to the soldier tricks. Yet that felt too much like 4E for me, which isn't a good thing for simplicity.  Example of new character creation (numbers subject to change)

Choose Race:

Insectoid:
Body 0 Mind 1 Senses 2 Health: 10

Roll (Choose) 3 Racial Traits: Flier Chitinous, and Long-limbed!

Choose Class:

Soldier:
Fisticuffs 1 Arms 1 Knowledge 0 Charm 0 Dodge: 10 HP: 10 Talent: Heavy Weapons



MERGE!

Insectoid Soldier Archetype
Body 0 Mind 1 Senses 2 Fisticuffs 1 Arms 1 Knowledge 0 Charm 0 Dodge: 12
Health 11  Talent: Heavy Weapons


Add 2 points to stats of your choice and choose talent. Recalculate changes to Dodge (Senses) and Health (Mind/Body)
and choose a talent!

Rixella the Insectoid Soldier
Chitinous, Long-limbed, Flier
Body 1 Mind 1 Senses 2 Fisticuffs 1 Arms 2 Knowledge 0 Charm 0
Health: 12 Dodge: 12  Armor: 4 (Caraprace+Spacesuit)
Heroism Points: 10 Talents: Heavy Weapons, Engineer

Gear: Demolition Kit, Spacesuit (Armor 3), Beam Rifle (Damage: 20)

Rixella is a dragonfly like soldier trained in her planetary military engineering corps. She's turned her skills to work for ARCHIVE

My advice? Write the game you want and like. Otherwise, it'll always come out bad.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;405100My advice? Write the game you want and like. Otherwise, it'll always come out bad.

That's my aim. I just like lots of stuff :D

Spinachcat's Demands!!!

• I want to play a kewl retro-scifi RPG where I wander around space hulks and shoot critters that scare the bejezus out of the players.  


• I want the Dungeon-In-Spaaaace feel that I got from playing the Space Hulk boardgame, but in a RPG form.  


• I want retro-50s sci-fi of the future that never was instead of another Star Trek, Star Wars, Serenity retread.   Have you read the Metabarons comics or the RPG?  I want a sci-fi RPG that looks, feels and plays differently than the rest of my shelf.

If you can do that, Derelict Delvers would rock!  At least for me!

BTW, if you want to talk to OD&D guys you can find Mentzer and Kask on the Dragonsfoot forums.  Both are approachable dudes.   Sure, not the Founders, but they can answer questions without you flying to New Orleans, getting mixed up with some hot voodoo witches and bothering the dead during their Cyborg Commando campaign.  Again!

However, I do think that if you nuke skills you need more ability scores.   And I want cooler names with more flava than Partial / Full / Critical for success.

I am working on a sci-fi RPG too.  Mine is focused on planetary invasion, ala Mechanoids, and I've wrestled with the New School / Old School whatever and in the end, I hope I'm happy with it.  I got happier recently when I made a list of "what I really want" in the game versus "what I think players need" and X'd out anything that conflicted with my wants.   I decided I don't want a universal/generic/open setting and I do want a very focused RPG that is about these heroes on this planet during this invasion...and perhaps its coming and aftermath.

I really hope that in the end, DD is about DD primarily and adventures beyond the spaaace donjons are cool and possible, but not the core focus.  AKA, I want talents that really rock when used in the core concept.  And nope, I have no idea how that's fully achieved.

X-plorers seems to have covered Swords & Wizardry in space and that's cool.  There is plenty of room in the far future genre for lots of other RPGs.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;405100My advice? Write the game you want and like. Otherwise, it'll always come out bad.

The Mouse narfs much wisdom.

Quote from: Spinachcat;405227Spinachcat's Demands!!!

• I want to play a kewl retro-scifi RPG where I wander around space hulks and shoot critters that scare the bejezus out of the players.  


• I want the Dungeon-In-Spaaaace feel that I got from playing the Space Hulk boardgame, but in a RPG form.  


• I want retro-50s sci-fi of the future that never was instead of another Star Trek, Star Wars, Serenity retread.   Have you read the Metabarons comics or the RPG?  I want a sci-fi RPG that looks, feels and plays differently than the rest of my shelf.

Oh yeah that's the aim. All of that.

QuoteCyborg Commando campaign.  Again!

I am pretty shore that there is no Cyborg Commando in heaven. :D Despite it might be fun to play (with improved rules.)

QuoteHowever, I do think that if you nuke skills you need more ability scores.   And I want cooler names with more flava than Partial / Full / Critical for success.

I assumed professions would cover that. A Solder can do soldier stuff--use and maintain weapons, drive military vehicles. Blow shit up. That sort of thing. They get access to more dangerous weapons all through the free talent Heavy Weapons. A Scientist can do scientist stuff. (Of course that depends on the talent they take. I mean I will offer more than one for each profession.)

So you'd have
Soldier: Heavy Weapons, Armor Trooper,
Scientist: Medic, Engineer, etc.
Scout: Explorer, Sniper, etc.

QuoteI decided I don't want a universal/generic/open setting and I do want a very focused RPG that is about these heroes on this planet during this invasion...and perhaps its coming and aftermath.  

Are they giant aliens engineered to be bugs? :D  I'd play it..:D

I love space invasions. They work great for superhero games.

I am of two minds. The Archetype building system is one.

It gives you a stat profile for species Strength, Agility, Intellect, and Spirit, and Health. This is modified by the racial traits that add +4 (Rare) a +2(Uncommon) and+1 (Common) modifiers you get to pick to describe your characters race.

Then this is modified by Profession template which gives basic Fisticuffs, Arms, Knowledge, and Charm Skills, as well as Heroism Points and Professional Talent.

Then PC's get a free talent etc, etc as above.

The end result would be a quick PC that has mechanical strength.


The other idea is that all characters have 3 traits from 3 categories. Giving them 9 descriptors for their character.

Things would be like "Trained by the Mystic Monks of Pao Sha" "Master of the Silver Saber Fencing Style," and "Has reached the Seventh Sphere of Telepathic Communion.."   Each of these things can be activated to use in a roll that they of course make sense in, Heroism points remain much liike Fate from Fate games, but they don't need to be used for doing something the character already knows how to do, or can do. Instead its for spinning up something new.

Like "Ahah, you didn't know I was also a Prodigy in the Psychokinetic Martial Art of Kinja-Kense!"  and of course it is then written on the sheet with a mark next to it indicating it is "new" and not shown up in play enough to be used without HP expenditure. Of course everyone can do special maneuvers, combat tricks, and the like to enact a few common things. Such as holding back enemies with machine gun fire, or pinning someone to the wall with a knife throw, or the like.

Every character would have 3 Profession based statement, 3 species statements, and 3 generic stuff I wanted to have statements.

The traits idea looks more fun, the archetype build is more old school but doesn't grab me - I already have systems that do that thing.

Quote from: Sean !;407340The traits idea looks more fun, the archetype build is more old school but doesn't grab me - I already have systems that do that thing.

What about a hybrid form?

Someone with a high Strength must have at a tag that describes the reason for it, like Strength 3 Winner of Homeworlds Earthshaker Contest. Then you have Stat+Skill+Device for result tallying? In this case a Insectoid Beetle (2), Winner of Homeworlds Earthshaker Contest (1) gives us the 3, Master Scientist-Archivist Awarded the Silver Atom of Brilliance (Knowledge 2), using a Steel Lever (1) gets to roll 7d6 to beet a target number...?

I like both ideas too much, and hybridizing them sounds off a bit.

Just to let people know. I'm still working on the new direction. I'm primarily reading a lot of old and new space opera and general pulp science fiction.

I've got a pretty good plan but this is the research stage.

I think the hybrid form is the way I'm going. (Think of it more as the more traits you have in an area, the better you are at doing stuff in that area.) Although in this case we're writing the number first. It just indicates how many traits you'll need to pick or create.

Yet the focus will be interesting as their will be examples for each general physiotype. (Humanoid, Insectoid, Felinoid, Reptiloid) and then a set of examples for each "profession" someone might choose to take, but being as this is pulpy one can take choices from Soldier list, Agent list, Scientist list, or what have you.

Want a scholar and scientist who lettered at football before becoming a pilot of superluminal rockets? Prefer a former scientist turned spy, who is a  knockout in more ways than that long Farisian silk dress gives away?

I've got a plan, and I think its a good one.


Oh, even gear will work similarly :D Beam guns might be stock beam guns, uninteresting things pick up in some space emergency kit, or they can be Four Ringed Atomic Disintegrator, with scope!

Anyone up to brainstorming some generic trait lists to append to base attributes?


Derelict Delvers needs "General" lists, then race specific ones: Humanoids, "Insectoid" and Reptiloids, as well as profession based ones.

I'm  expanding Insectoid to cover all "Arthropod like" beings. They bear a strong semblance to them. (Size is a factor in Sci Fi, I'm not sure if I should make it one in DD or not. If I do I may just have them evolved from Arthropod ancestors and still have chitinous outer shells, but internal support as well.)  I'm also rolling Felinoids into Humanoids. Cat-people are humanoid enough, same goes with Dog-men, and Hawk-women.


In addition to the trait lists, I'm planning on generating some cultural lists as well.

Examples
Brawn Attribute
   Big as a planetoid
   Hideous Alien Might
   Three Time-Medal Winner in Archive Interplanetary Games
   Species X is from a High Gravity World
   Stronger than it/he/she looks


Soldier Profession
   Trained by Monks of X
   Warrior Species from ....
   Deadliest Shot in the Greater Ezzem Cloud
   

and so on..

I have tried repeatedly, but I never grokked the "Name your trait" / Aspect tagging concept.  However the FATE / SOTC / HeroQuest players seem to enjoy it greatly.  Does ICONS and Starblazer Adventures do a similar thing with their chargen?

Quote from: Spinachcat;412015I have tried repeatedly, but I never grokked the "Name your trait" / Aspect tagging concept.  However the FATE / SOTC / HeroQuest players seem to enjoy it greatly.  Does ICONS and Starblazer Adventures do a similar thing with their chargen?

Starblazers does, Icons uses a very limited and focused version. Icons version covers things like: Catchphrases (It's Clobberin' Time), epitaphs (Bets there is at what he does, Sorcerer Supreme,  Strongest one there is), and turns some of them into disadvantages (Spider-Man's money problems, Nemesis, and so on.) I like it over the big list versions because its a handful of things that come up occasionally.

One way to think of them is to consider them being one line descriptions that you'd find in a book. When reading a book you'd see something like: "Hey, I didn't hold the highest score in hand to hand combat at Archive Training Camp for no reason.." or "He was one of the fastest guns to step off a ship in a hundred and fifty years. He just hoped he wouldn't need to rely on that skill this time.."


I was thinking of keeping them limited and give a lot of examples. I can come up with dozens. but players I deal with just can't come up with their own, and there is nothing wrong with that. I think it fits for some pulp games feel. I'm not sure how well it works here, however.  I need to play test it. I like the concept, but it doesn't work for everything. I might make it "Name one trait at character creation and add more in play.."

The basic idea is to make people with a stat of 3 feel different in play. Sure mechanically they work the same 95% of the time, but someone with "Won the Hurling Competition on Regulus 7" can get a small boon when throwing something.

Have you considered just writing 2 different Sci-Fi games?

The old concept was "Dungeon Scavengers" who can grow in power to become "Star Lords", but most gameplay was about Explore / Kill / Scavenge / Flee.   You derelict delved to get devices to help you go on bigger on delves.  Eventually, you either die or cash out and live in a Space McMansion with your three-titty space bitches.  

The new concept seems to be Pulp-Era Space Opera.  It feels much more Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon and Lensmen.   I don't see those guys scavenging in scary places, but flying about in shiny ships saving the galaxy.

I don't know if Aspect-play is compatible with the derelict scavenger concept since it seems to lend itself more to "Big Damn Heroes" than "guys with guns looking for loot"    

Maybe you are leaning toward High Valor in Space?

Well the pilot was an intended archetype from the get go, so flying in ships is important.

Pulp sf isn't all from the comics versions of Buck/Flash, etc.

Some of it is also about the people seeking strange profit in dark and dangerous places The Poleseotechnic League series notably a later space opera universe. You can add Slippery Jim DiGriz (Stainless Steel Rat), I'm aiming for space opera more than pulps. I'm still reading and gathering things. My examples tend heroic because that's how I've always played D&D. Even if we were grubbing in dungeons :D



High Valor in space is fun idea, but no this is still scavengers of the ruins of the past, facing dire threats. Etc.


The closest to High Valor in space will either be E.o.N: Empire of Night my demons come back into the world and wreck humanities wide flung stellar civilization.

Or  Wàixīng Wǔxiá Space Opera meets wuxia game. Which is of course full of heroism, martial arts, and facing down corruption.

I think part of the lack of clarity may be the terms. I'm looking at pulp as action aspects of play. Common in early SF/space opera. Characters shot first, and it was alright. As opposed to being just like Buck/Flash (although some inspiration is from those.)

I still wanted a descriptive game mechanics when I realized IIRC Starships and Spaceman did D&D in space already, and much earlier. I want to focus on making a simple space opera game with the whole "archeologists of tomorrow" aspect. A nice way of saying grave robbing the former space empires before Archive came along. PC's are still in many ways heroic (just like in my D&D games.)

Here is a bit finer version:

Pick a template:


Reptiloids tend to be somewhat larger than standard humanoids being over 6' for most of their group, with the largest being upwards of 8' (6-7'8")


Attribute Template
Brawn  3            Agility  3               Mind   2                        Spirit  2


Notable Reptiloids include the Esper, Gojin Marak, who created Marakian Amplifier that was used to free his people from the tyrant Hurjin Akada. Also worth remembering was Delver Ikasoru, who discovered the Well of Yrral.


Combine with a profession.


AGENT Template

Espionage/Infiltration

Fisticuffs   2    Arms  1   Knowledge   1              Charm     3            Perception  2

Additional Skills:  Sneak +2, Detect/Disarm +1, Pick locks +1, Deception +2




Add 5 points to the combined template:


Nolash Yem

Brawn  3            Agility  4               Mind   3           Spirit  2

Skills:
Fisticuffs   2    
Arms  1   
Knowledge   2    
Charm     3            
Perception  3
Sneak 2  
Detect/Disarm 2  
Pick locks 1
Linguistics 1
Beamgun (Specialty) 1





Then pick a gear package or buy individual gear:


Gear Package: Agent
Beamtgun, Megatool, Energy Knife, Beam Lantern, P-Com, Archive Space Suit



Add in Heroism Points and Health.


Optional: Any trait or skill over 3 provide a descriptor, this is an explanation for why the trait or skill is significant and can be used in circumstances with a hero point to add a small bonus (+2)




Nolash Yem

Brawn  3            Agility  4               Mind   3           Spirit  2

Skills:
Fisticuffs   2    
Arms  1   
Knowledge   2    
Charm     3            
Perception  3
Sneak 2  
Detect/Disarm 2  
Pick locks 1
Linguistics 1
Beamgun (Specialty) 1

Health: 3           Heroism Points: 10        


Gear Package: Agent
Beamtgun, Megatool, Energy Knife, Beam Lantern, P-Com, Archive Space Suit


Agility Descriptor: Trained as Escape Artist on Rangh 43

Here are the profession templates (rough)

I need more ideas for gear for each template, and alternative ideas for skill spreads

AGENT Template

Espionage/Infiltration

Fisticuffs   2    Arms  1   Knowledge   1              Charm     3            Perception  2

Additional Skills:  Sneak +2, Detect/Disarm +1, Pick locks +1, Deception +2

Gear Package: Energy Knife, Beam gun, Beam Lantern, Archive Spacesuit, Webrope,
Smoke Grenade, P-Com

Grifter

Fisticuffs 1            Arms  2            Knowledge 1                  Charm 3              Perception 3

Additional Skills: Deception +2, Sleight of Hand +1, Forgery +1,  Disguise +1

Gear Package: Beam Gun, Disguise Kit, P-com, Archive Spacesuit

Saboteur

Fisticuffs  1          Arms 2             Knowledge    2          Charm  2               Perception 3

Additional Skills: Engineering +1, Sneak +2, Weapon +1, Deception +1

Gear Package: Beam Gun, Satchel Charges (2), Grenades (2), P-Com, Archive Spacesuit,

ESPER Template


Mindwarrior

Fisticuffs 3            Arms 3              Knowledge 1       Charm 1        Perception 1

Additional Skills:  Telekinesis or Pyrokinesis  +2, Combat Precognition +2, Weapon +1,  Pilot +1

Gear Package: Beam Blade, P-Comm, Archive Spacesuit,


Sensor

Fisticuffs  1        Arms 1              Knowledge 2       Charms 2      Perception 3

Additional Skills: Precognition +2, Clairvoyance +2, Combat Precognition +1, Endure +1

Gear Package: Beam Gun, P-Com, Archive Space Suit


Communicator

Fisticuffs   1       Arms 1              Knowledge  2           Charm 3    Perception 2

Additional Skills:  Telepathy +2,  Deception +2,  Linguistics +1, Electronics +1


Gear Package: Needler, P-com, Archive Space Suit, Soporific Needles (2 Magazines)



SCIENTIST Template


Engineer

Fisticuffs 1   Arms  1       Knowledge  3   Charm 1         Perception 2

Additional Skills: Engineering +3, Electronics +2, Computers +1, Endure +1

Gear Package: Beam Gun, P-Com, Archive Space Suit, Megatool, Energy Cutter,
Electronic Tool Kit, Duct Tape.


Medic

Fisticuffs 1   Arms 1        Knowledge  3   Charm 2   Perception 2

Additional Skills: Medicine +3, Computers +1, Linguistics +1, Pilot +1


Gear Package: Beam Gun, P-Com, Archive Space Suit, Medikit, Vitadrine (3 doses)

Archeologist

Fisticuffs 1   Arms 1     Knowledge 3  Charm 1   Perception 2

Additional Skills: Observation +1,  Research +2, Linguistics +1, Detect/Disarm +3

Gear Package: Beam Gun, P-Com, Archive Space Suit, Magnalens, Megatool,
Brushes, Electronic Tool Kit, Beam Lantern

SCOUT Template

Explorer
Fisticuffs 2   Arms 2        Knowledge  1   Charm 1   Perception 3

Additional Skills: Observation +1, Track +1, Weapon +1, Stealth +2, Linguistics +1


Gear Package: Beam Rifle, P-Com, Beam Blade, Micro Mapper, Comm Relay Pack

Expediter

Fisticuffs 2   Arms 3        Knowledge  2   Charm 1   Perception 2

Additional Skills: Observation +1, Martial Arts +1, Stealth +1, Demolitions +1, Weapon +1


Gear Package: Beam Rifle, P-Com, Archive Space Suit, Smoke Grenade (3), Blast Grenade (3),
Energy Knife (2), Nightsight Goggles, Satchel Charge,

Hunter

Fisticuffs 1   Arms 3        Knowledge  1   Charm 1   Perception 2

Additional Skills: Observation +2, Track +2, Weapon +1, Stealth +2


Gear Package: Beam Rifle, P-Com, Archive Space Suit, Megatool, Energy Knife, Synth Rope 100', Magnalens

SOLDIER Template

Specialist
Fisticuffs 2   Arms 2        Knowledge  1   Charm 1   Perception 2
 
Additional Skills: Dodge +1, Weapon +2,  Tactics +2,  Martial Arts +2, Stealth +1

Gear Package:

Trooper
Fisticuffs 2  Arms 3     Knowledge 1 Charm 1 Perception 1

Additional Skills: Armor +3,  Tactics +1, Weapon +1, Electronics +1, Endure +1

Gear Package:

Warrior
Fisticuffs 2 Arms 2 Knowledge 1 Charm 1 Perception 1

Additional Skills: Armor 1, Weapon 3, Weapon 2, Endure 1, Dodge 1


Gear Package:

Interesting.  Chargen looks quick, varied and modular.  

Are you keeping the aspects/descriptors?  Are those only limited to high stats (aka 3+)?  How do they work in game?

How's the Health vs. Heroism Point work?

Quote from: Spinachcat;414138Interesting.  Chargen looks quick, varied and modular.  

Are you keeping the aspects/descriptors?  Are those only limited to high stats (aka 3+)?  How do they work in game?

How's the Health vs. Heroism Point work?

I'm keeping the descriptors as an option. Most notably as a way of explaining details about the character. Whether its high stats or all "stats" (ability scores and common skills) I don't know yet. I like the idea of the two primary stat lines being explained readily by descriptors, but I don't want people to have to come up with 14 or 20 of the things.


As it stands I'm thinking the system will be fistful d6's. (This may result in some trimming as I don't want to ever go over 12d6.)

Right now it will be "most appropriate stat line+skill" so hitting someone with a punch would be Fisticuffs+Martial Arts, or Arms+Weapon, or Charm+Deception. Some cases you roll something like Brawn+Fisticuffs (smashing a door down.) or Agility+Perception (Walking a tightrope)

In the case of descriptors if say you rolled Brawn 3 (Strong as High-G Ursinoid) and Fisticuffs 2 to smash a door. You would roll 5d6, and get say  6, 4, 1, 4, 2. You'd have 1 success whatever from the dice. But you have a descriptor as above you actually get 2 successes (I'm thinking of calling them merits, but not sure yet.)  If you have 2 merits. Well that's a full success at least. (1 is always a partial.)

Of course that doesn't take into account tests which have harder difficulties--that's only when the total is above the difficulty. (Say you have a Difficulty 2 action--that means you need 3 merits to get a partial, or 4 to get a total success.)

I may be over-complicating it though. I wanted to keep it simpler than roll and add though. (I find look for high numbers faster, but not everyone does.)

Health and Heroism need to be tested. I'm thinking that each weapon or attack has a fixed value. Successes add to this of course. A critical success is a completely described result. That is if I say "I stab this thing through the head." and I get a critical, it gets stabbed through the head. So long as 1 point of damage gets through armor/defenses.

If I punch someone and have a Brawn of 3, that's 3 points of damage. But heroism points can eat that first if one chooses. Otherwise one takes it on the chin. (That's a loss of three physical dice to be split up evenly or on one attribute.)

 Brawn of 0 means unconscious, Agility of 0 means having limbs damaged and sense of balance hindered. Knowledge of 0 means stunned/knocked senseless (not the same as out. Believe me I know.)

Charm of 0 means ones face is bashed in, and Perception of 0 means being blinded, ringing hears, pain too intense to feel anything else.

All of that build into the stat line.

Heroism points of course can eat it on a one for one basis.

I must say I really like the new direction.  The previous iteration was a game I would certainly enjoy reading, but the Bold New Direction(tm) is more like a game I would play.

Sounds particularly good for a one-shot or mini-campaign, actually.

Thanks VectorSigma.

I think I'm liking this a lot myself. I love the ability to quickly make characters, and I like some of ease of use aspects I'm working on.

I've decided that after matching templates the player can spread/add 3 points between the templates basics (Stat+Basic Skill lines) or choose six tags to attach to traits. The 3 points means a better chance to get a success. But the tags allow one to get a better success if they achieve any positive value at all--if their specific criteria are met.

Should gear be a third pick? Race+Profession+Gear? I like the idea but that limits a bit of the functionality of some "we are this professions weirdest variant?"

Is there another third thing that can be added in, that makes sense?

I've got a rough draft of the new version together. I should have it up tonight for download this weekend.

New Draft to test. Still needs quite a few things.

-Monsters/Aliens
-Starships
-Gear details
-Random Derelict Designer
-Detailed Esper rules and description of other special tricks HP can perform


Remember, this is just a rough draft of the new direction.

Derelict Delvers December Draft (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/DerelictDelversDecember.pdf)

One thing I've always been at odds with in role-playing games are weapons which stun and capture characters.

In some games--like superhero ones. The idea is reasonable, and commonly a side effect of combat actions of any kind.

In other other genres, they're usually badly done, making disabling effects pointless. As it is often just easier to kill someone mechanically. If it isn't pointless then its a simple test, which steals the struggle, and challenge from a combat encounter.

With Derelict Delvers, I've got a few devious devices. I'll have to go into them in detail in the game but right now I'll simply give a brief rundown.

Tanglers
From a lowly Tangler to the wide area Web Gun, tanglers project basically synthetic webbing designed to immobilize a foe. A troublesome weapon that fits in perfectly with the game mechanics as written.

See Heroism points are lost first, indicating that the person or character made a narrow escape from being hit with the weapon. A Tangler hit drops HP just like a killing attack, but when it zeroes out HP, the person is entangled, and must struggle to free themselves. They're never damage--just trapped. They're out of luck/fortune and their skill has failed. (Agility or Brawn is tested.)

Needlers
Needlers are small armor piercing weapons that fire tiny high velocity projectiles. (Despite my desire for the lethal Energy Needlers from some of H. Beam Pipers Works.)

In this case the shots work similar to tanglers, but instead of a test to break free when HP is zeroed. The character tests to resist the drug, rather than escaping it. (Using Brawn to resist.)

Watch out for the cone are of effect Shredders!

Sonostunners
Sonic weapons have a similar effect to the other two, they stun when HP is zeroed and the target must resist going unconscious. (Perception Test to escape.)


Now this seems fairly traditional, but using these weapons can create environmental impact to the PC's. Even a near miss (which HP accounts for) still has a minor side effect.

The side effects offer a way to combine tricks and maneuvers with non-lethal weapons to create more tactical choices than just killing someone.


Side Effects:

A Tangler hinders movement. Agility is penalized if even one HP is lost! As you've hindered the person by restricting the area they are inside. A failed roll may mean they've snagged themselves on remaining webbing.

A Needler has a chance to puncture armor, even if the small darts do miss hurting the person inside. In Space this is a dangerous condition. They may need to take a turn to repair any damage to armor, spacesuits or the like with sealspray or tape.


A Sonostunner creates a focused cone of sound. Even dodging it and getting out of the way can set ones ears ringing, hammering the Perception of the character, making multiple shots even more likely to drop a foe.


Normal weapons will have some tricks as well, Suppressive fire, Burn effects, and the like.

The battlefield of a Derelict is a dangerous place even if you are a lucky and skilled person.

Fixed a few issues we discovered in playtest with the mechanics, added a few bits of gear, nothing major.

Derelict Delvers 12-14 Update (http://silverlionstudios.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/DerelictDelversDec12.pdf)

You may have foreshadowed your own problem by saying that DD is in Delta, the 4th iteration...so when you are done with this version of DD, you only have to completely redo the game two more times!

I miss the random chargen charts.  You can still do them using D6D6 36 option charts.  

With the Agent templates, you might instead offer 1 general one for the class and then have fast-play specialty agents (Grifter, Hunter, etc) all spiffed out with the specialty skills and gear picked so GMs can use them as fleshed out NPCs or players can use them instantly like the D6 Star Wars characters.

I miss your Medic class.  The Space Cleric was an interesting idea I've not really seen in other RPGs and the concept was going interesting places.

I am not understanding how 6 traits = 3 attribute points.  If I am shooter or a pilot, putting those points into my skills sounds far better math than attaching traits.   Try it in the playtest and see how the math breaks down.

You could always go back to "free trait for skills 3+" and even have it 1 trait at 3, 2 traits at 4, 3 traits at skill 5, etc.

I am unsure if the +1 specialty vs. -1 specialty works.   Again, see how the players feel about it.

Gear packages are good.

12 die cap is probably fine.   It should be interesting to see how often in the playtests they are rolling more than 10 dice.

I am a little unclear on the D#

What is failure vs. partial for Epic / Legendary / Nigh-Impossible?

Does 0 merits = failure for Difficult challenges?  

I am unsure of the merit math.   It seems to me at first glance that most of the game will be spent with partial successes.   If the D# is 3 for a Difficult challenge, why not have 3 = Success and 1-2 = partial?

Have you considered 4,5,6 = Merit?   How would that affect your math?   The exploding 6s is interesting, but it adds more die rolling and die reading to each task.

I suggest adding Random Name charts for various companies.  Maybe a column A + column B style.  

I am not grokking the DC vs. DR for weapons vs. armor.

Quote from: Spinachcat;425968I miss the random chargen charts.  You can still do them using D6D6 36 option charts.  

With the Agent templates, you might instead offer 1 general one for the class and then have fast-play specialty agents (Grifter, Hunter, etc) all spiffed out with the specialty skills and gear picked so GMs can use them as fleshed out NPCs or players can use them instantly like the D6 Star Wars characters.

I miss your Medic class.  The Space Cleric was an interesting idea I've not really seen in other RPGs and the concept was going interesting places.

I am not understanding how 6 traits = 3 attribute points.  If I am shooter or a pilot, putting those points into my skills sounds far better math than attaching traits.   Try it in the playtest and see how the math breaks down.

You could always go back to "free trait for skills 3+" and even have it 1 trait at 3, 2 traits at 4, 3 traits at skill 5, etc.

I am unsure if the +1 specialty vs. -1 specialty works.   Again, see how the players feel about it.

Gear packages are good.

12 die cap is probably fine.   It should be interesting to see how often in the playtests they are rolling more than 10 dice.

I am a little unclear on the D#

What is failure vs. partial for Epic / Legendary / Nigh-Impossible?

Does 0 merits = failure for Difficult challenges?  

I am unsure of the merit math.   It seems to me at first glance that most of the game will be spent with partial successes.   If the D# is 3 for a Difficult challenge, why not have 3 = Success and 1-2 = partial?

Have you considered 4,5,6 = Merit?   How would that affect your math?   The exploding 6s is interesting, but it adds more die rolling and die reading to each task.

I suggest adding Random Name charts for various companies.  Maybe a column A + column B style.  

I am not grokking the DC vs. DR for weapons vs. armor.

I will be putting some random charts back in--especially for traits. The general idea is that 3 Dice gives you a chance for success, but a trait will always move your success up one level. It comes in rarely but has more guaranteed impact.

0 merits does mean failure, you need at least 1 merit. Difficulty numbers adjusted because previously they removed successful dice completely, now they only require you need more than the number listed to succeed. D#3 should mean 1-2 is partial and 3+ merits is a Good success.

We have tried 4.5.6 as merits earning. It works but seems to make higher numbers more likely. I was aiming at Partial and Good Success coming up more often than complete failure, and Astounding successes.

I'll have to see about Space Clerics, I think the problem became one of being too weird for the pulp game, but we might add something similar back in as play progresses. May split the Esper into a healer type, and a combat type with both allowing some flexibility for information gathering.

Random Names will go in, a good idea.

As for DC vs DR, the DC is the damage a weapon is capable of doing on an ordinary success. It does half that on a partial success, and kills if it penetrates armor (if that is the Delvers intent) on an Astounding success.

DR simply absorbs that much damage. So if a Beamgun does DC8, and an Archive Sealsuit has DR3. then the hero will take 5 points of damage to their Heroism Points. (This makes the beamgun dangerous but not instantly so. Unless the Delver rolls really well)

I had a weird (and probably too Forge-like) mechanic idea that a friend in part came up.

Derelict Delvers Weird System


There are two type of tests in DD, one is the Task Roll. It is used when nothing long term, such as injury, suffocation or otherwise
damaging can occur. These test are things such as checks for information, resolving non-dangerous social interactions and the like.


The other type of test is the Threat roll. It is performed when things are dangerous. Both rolls are done simalrly but the results are different.

The basic roll is stat+skill in D6's. One must get a number of D6's equal to the rating to succeed. In a Task Rating that is all, but each merit gained
on a basic roll earn a Heroism die for Threat rolls. Heroism dice can only be spent on Threat rolls.


Threat rolls are tested vs a Threat Rating. The Threat rating consists of three important bits of information. The threat rating itself. The threat threshold
and the consequence result.


A normal Task roll is simply get as many merits as the Task D#

A Threat roll requires the Delver get as many merits as the D# (Threat Rating) before the threshold is reached. A player
can roll stat+skill+heroism dice as they wish. However each dice which doesn't earn merits earns an increase in the threshold. When it equals
the Threat rating. The hero suffers the consequence. Some threat tests may include more than one Threat rating, consequences and so on--testing
physical or mental elements.

Heroism Dice spent in Threat rolls are lost until more are earned through tasks.

Multiple Delvers may attempt a test together, and larger problems may be split amongst several different threats.


Once a threat roll is engaged, it automatically gets one die a round towards triggering its effect, unless otherwise noted.


Of course taking extra time, before one engages the threat can reduce the threat rating. Changing tactics can also reduce the threat threshold earned so far, for some dangerous threat.

I'm over complicating things again. Blah.

Anyone think I should just say screw it and write the universe as D6 system with my personal touches?

I like D6, but fist full of D6es was mentioned as a problem.


Alternately I think I can do some of the above with a flat 2d10+Stat+Skill vs D#; with the possibility of earning additional dice and taking the best two.

Quote from: Silverlion;431028Anyone think I should just say screw it and write the universe as D6 system with my personal touches?

Write a 1 page description of your dream of DD.  Describe what you want to see in a play session, the kinds of characters, the kind of action, what you want the players to achieve, what you want them to do with the game mechanics and what you want the GM to do.   Look at what you want the game to achieve in actual play.   The game mechanics should support the setting and the types of adventure / experience you want for the players.

My thoughts?

I wonder if DD would be a great boardgame, aka Space Hulk + Descent + some kind of character / campaign mechanics.

Quote from: Spinachcat;432065W

I wonder if DD would be a great boardgame, aka Space Hulk + Descent + some kind of character / campaign mechanics.

It might, but art and figures for such things are madly expensive to have made.

I also thing the way DD is going, as an RPG, is working well.

I need ideas (beyond my own) for what goes in star equipment packs for the various professions: Soldier, Scout, Scientist, Esper...

Each profession has three examples, and I'd like three sample gear packs. What I have now is nice, but I'd like more. What would you give to explorers (of new things, and ruins) aside from a beam gun, a basic spacesuit, and a light.