Should be playable, but still needs a lot of work. Lots and lots and lots.

Derelict Delvers

(This is for those who didn't read the Cold Chrome Knights thread)

Yeah!  I will spew much commentary and queries in a few days.

Please let me know, the more feedback the better. (Also I know of writing gaffs, I am trying to get it complete before I have a full time editor go over it.)

I will break my comments into a few different posts.  I will let your grammar editor handle the wording tidbits and I will focus on the concepts.

1) Since 99% of your audience will be gamers, I suggest you open with What is Derelict Delvers? or maybe game fiction to introduce us to the setting and concepts.  Just a page will do fine.   Something to entice the jaded gamers who download everything.

2) I like the sidebars.  Give us more.  

3) Don't tease us with Delver Magazine if you ain't gonna pull that trigger!  
Quarterly is tough, but bi-annual is doable even with a few fans contributing content.  Knockspell and Fight On! seem to do well based on their Lulu awards.  BTW, page 4 mentions Derelict Magazine.  For wino gamers!

4) I like ARCHIVE.  Are there competing corporations?  Are there unlicensed delvers?

5) Table 1B - skin hues has math problems.

6) The metric system failed in the US.  If you include it, do inches/feet/pounds in parentheses for the USA audience.  

7) I personally like a bit more description with the races, especially racial tendencies. Maybe a sidebar about famous delvers, homeworlds, or maybe ideas for the DM to customize, alter or interpret each race for their campaign.

I am unclear on chargen.  I roll 3D6 and the dice roll tells me the attribute which is -3 to +3?   The alternate system of spreading 5 points is automatically far better than rolling 3D6.   Unless 9-10 = 0, 11-12 = +1, 13-14 = +2, etc.   Then the 5 point spread works.  Also, can my race bonus and my level bonuses take me beyond +3?

9) I like "What is X used for?" but add more examples, especially those tasks that are specific to DD gameplay.

10) I know the OSR worships the giant XP chart, but how much gameplay is actually needed to get 48,000 XP to reach 7th level and are modern players really going to enjoy putting that much time again before gaining 8th level?

Thanks for the feedback.

More sidebars are planned with how, why, and even alternates.


Aliens are sort of broad category things. Since it is possible for the entire party to be insectoids from many different planets with different features. Although example and famous delvers are possible. I may instead do "builders" of various important things in the Archive-verse. Such as the founding of Frontier's Edge by the Archive Commander Tek'et'ket to try and exploit the Mines of Madness on Archive Date 9.09.32.01

Feedback on stats is helpful. I'll get it fixed as the intent is to make no option better than the other.

I'm still testing the XP charts and maybe reduced as time goes on. I need to run a complete campaign of it to see where it goes (and get more feedback.)

11) Put the Excellent / Good / Fair chart up front before the classes.  If you do not have a particular skill, is it at +0 or a negative?  

12) Why does the Esper have better Computer skills than Social skills?  As for the level 7 ability, what about something akin to Power Boost, but allows them to use their power on multi-targets at once?

13) I like the McGuyver aspect to the Engineer.   Consider making Self Destruct into the 7th level ability and give something more powerful for 9th level, like "Scotty's Law" which allows them to complete repairs in half the normal time.   Or a master of technology that allows him to repair / deconstruct totally alien tech without penalty.

14) Why are medics so good with Small Arms?  No Computer skill?  How is the Level 1 Medic ability different than the basic use of the Medicine skill?  I like He's Not Dead Jim and I support naming all the skills with cool titles.  I see no problem yanking cool phrases from across popular sci-fi.  It adds a nice feel.  

15) Since medics need to roll Social to effect Sanctuary, shouldn't they have a better Social skill?  Field Surgeon feels weak.   I am also unclear on why high level Medics have the Command Authority ability.   Overall, the Medic seems odd.   Shouldn't their science background give them the Survival skill at Fair?

16) What does the Pilot fly until level 5?   Cut it Close is a cool ability, but maybe better at 3rd level?   I suggest that a HP needs to be spent to activate "I call her Stella" - and who is Stella?    Maybe grant the ship at 3rd level, then the 5th level power is Stella and the 7th level ability could be the ability to declare customizations on the fly with a HP.  

17) At 9th level, what happens when a ship takes additional damage after a pilot uses his Wing and a Prayer?  Is the damage negated?

18) I like the Scout class.  I am unsure what the Scout should get at 9th level, maybe a way to cheat death?

19) Why doesn't the Soldier have Stealth?  I like the Soldier abilties, but Deadly Strike feels like a 7th or 9th level ability.  Maybe at 7th and 9th level, he can gain abilities to quick draw/free reload or multiple attacks.  

20) I absolutely LOVE that DR = Skill + 10 + Armor Value.  However, will people be able to hit stuff in the high 20s and 30s?  Do you add your DEX bonus?  Maybe consider an Armor Penetration / Aiming bonus for weapons?

Quote from: Spinachcat;35601611) Put the Excellent / Good / Fair chart up front before the classes.  If you do not have a particular skill, is it at +0 or a negative?  

It's at zero. Since stats can still play into a roll, and the game is essentially pulp-sf as well as D&D in space.

Quote12) Why does the Esper have better Computer skills than Social skills?  As for the level 7 ability, what about something akin to Power Boost, but allows them to use their power on multi-targets at once?

I thought of them as a bit more alien to the non-espers, as well as the fact that the back concept is Espers have psi but it takes their little Crystaline implant (computer) to help them to big things. But that also was tied into a way of explaining "slots" for usage. (Amount of energy and psychic attunement the user can get from the computer. A beginning user has 1 slot.)

Quote14) Why are medics so good with Small Arms?  No Computer skill?  How is the Level 1 Medic ability different than the basic use of the Medicine skill?  I like He's Not Dead Jim and I support naming all the skills with cool titles.  I see no problem yanking cool phrases from across popular sci-fi.  It adds a nice feel.  

Originally they were the cleric roll--which tended to be combat healers. People willing to brave fire to get up there and heal.  I need to fix triage. It is their first level ability, but might need to be removed and just leave them their specialist uses. (I'm not sure what to call their "spell" like abilities.)

The aim was anyone with medicine can help someone who is injured/hurt. Only medics can do it instantly in the field since Heroism points are the abstract things representing luck. The idea is anyone can keep someone below 0 from dying with a skill check. They can fix broken limbs, etc.) However only a Medic can restore your vigor and boost your luck. The abstraction is a little problematic here of course.


 

Quote15) Since medics need to roll Social to effect Sanctuary, shouldn't they have a better Social skill?  Field Surgeon feels weak.   I am also unclear on why high level Medics have the Command Authority ability.   Overall, the Medic seems odd.   Shouldn't their science background give them the Survival skill at Fair?

It is odd. I was aiming for a cleric in SF field. Suggestions are welcome. I want him to be useful in the field, play the same "keep PC's up and active," but also want some flexibility so that isn't all they do.

Quote16) What does the Pilot fly until level 5?   Cut it Close is a cool ability, but maybe better at 3rd level?   I suggest that a HP needs to be spent to activate "I call her Stella" - and who is Stella?    Maybe grant the ship at 3rd level, then the 5th level power is Stella and the 7th level ability could be the ability to declare customizations on the fly with a HP.  

Good ideas! As to what they fly they can borrow a ship from the ARCHIVE but are expected to return it in its original condition.  They can also pilot other vehicles (Pilot skill covers all the driving.)

Quote17) At 9th level, what happens when a ship takes additional damage after a pilot uses his Wing and a Prayer?  Is the damage negated?  

It's ignored for the most part. There isn't much more damage one can do to the ship at that point that would matter. They're already barely holding it together, already. I might make it require a roll with penalty to keep it together each round.

Quote18) I like the Scout class.  I am unsure what the Scout should get at 9th level, maybe a way to cheat death?

Yeah the scout's specials have given me a hard time--also the Medic's above. I'm trying to create something that is fun and has its own purpose.

Quote19) Why doesn't the Soldier have Stealth?  I like the Soldier abilties, but Deadly Strike feels like a 7th or 9th level ability.  Maybe at 7th and 9th level, he can gain abilities to quick draw/free reload or multiple attacks.  

He's infantry, not the commando. He's the guy at the frond of the charge. A good argument might make me change that, but I'm trying to give everyone a specialty. Right now his is armor and weapons, while the scouts is stealth and survival.

Quote20) I absolutely LOVE that DR = Skill + 10 + Armor Value.  However, will people be able to hit stuff in the high 20s and 30s?  Do you add your DEX bonus?  Maybe consider an Armor Penetration / Aiming bonus for weapons?

Aiming bonus is a good idea. However, I must have miss explained something as Armor absorbs damage.

Ah, I found it.

 I call Defense, Defense Rating, which is too similar to DR (Damage Reduction.)

Ordinarily it be this Defense= Skill+10 so a First Level Soldier wearing armor has a Defense of 13, but has a DR of 3.

I need to clarify that.

Anymore suggestions? I'm glad to hear them!

I've got a few more suggestions noted in my file for special abilities, but they were all of Soldier and Engineer ones. I need more for Espers, Pilots, and Medics.

21) Definitely need different names for either Defense Rating and Damage Reduction!  Maybe Defense Rating and Armor Protection?

22)  I like that 1 Credit = 1 hour basic work.   It gives the DM a great economic baseline.   Will PC groups be renting hirelings like in D&D?  Will "subcontractors" be part of the delve experience?  What about paying for travel costs to and from derelicts?  

23)  I see you have no weights for gear.   That is great!  A few rare gear that is listed as Bulky would be fine, maybe with a caveat that a STR +1 or higher is needed to carry it.   A paragraph suggesting how the DM eyeball encumbrance is fine.   People made fun of the Swordbearer RPG for saying you could carry 10 things, but it's the only encumbrance system that I have ever seen players actually use!

24)  I like that Pulse Lights are both lanterns and burning oil.  What is the DD version of a backpack, lock picks, manacles, mirror (for peeking around corners) and iron spikes for locking doors?   What about holy water, holy symbols and wolvesbane?   More gear please!!!  BTW, are power cells universal?

25) Sealspray seems way too cheap.  Maybe 50c for 5 uses.   Since characters power abilities with HP, this grants them an immediate way to recover abilities at a very fast rate.  Maybe Sealspray isn't instant like a Potion of Healing, but requires a turn to activate?  Maybe it heals 1 HP per round for 1D4 rounds?  Or maybe repeated use of sealspray in an hour causes toxic shock?  

26)  If a Beam Lantern has a power cell that lasts 1 hour, why does a Beam Blade have a power cell that lasts for infinity? I love Mass Mauls and Storm Pikes.   I want a Chain Axe!   Also, include a writeup on the Magnawhip.    If we are counting ammo for range weapons, why not melee weapons?  

27) If an energy knife does 1D4 damage, what damage does a primitive sword do?   I see a problem in penalizing primitive weapons because there are plenty of monsters with just claws.   However, you do want energy tech weapons to be better.   I am cool with low level delvers with steel swords, hoping to earn enough credits to trade up to a beam blade.   I like highly expensive items on the gear list because it keeps gear as a goal through the early to mid levels.  In D&D, once you have 1,000 gp, who cares that a broadsword is 2 gp more than a mace.   Feel free to make the cool weapons unobtainable at chargen.

28) If a target is hit by a Flamer (or other weapon with Ignite), do they get the Save as a free action or does it require them to stop/drop/roll to get the save?

29) Grenades do way too much damage compared to other weapons.   I would hack 1 die off each since they already get the awesome advantage of area effect.   What is the nature of a Bouncing Boomer?   Give us some more types of grenades!  I'd like some non-lethals and some anti-robot and maybe entanglement.  Kinda like web rope that splatters and hardens.

30) I love the idea of adding Liners to armor.  However, the total DR looks like they can easily soak up all the damage of even higher end weapons, except MPAMMs.    When using a shield (I assume this is a physical shield you hold?), what do you have to roll for the shield to work?  Do you have to beat the attack roll?

31) As a Halo fan, I want a Warthog (Aardvark? Or a Puma!) and of course, some insanely fast hover cycles.   I gotta have my Mad Max Aug mobiles!  

32) Do we assume that most derelicts have pressurized oxygen environs?   AKA, what happens if a PC has damage pass through his armor in a non-O2 environ?  Do all armors auto-seal, or are decompression and O2 loss real issues?    

33) Do Exo-skeletons and Power Suits grant STR / CON / DEX bonuses?  Any built in gear or additional weapon systems?  AKA, how do I attach a weapon pod to my shoulder that tracks and fires wherever my primary weapon goes?  

34) How do Espers gain powers?  How many do they start with?  Will they be tiered into levels like spells?   Or will the powers be tiered so you gain the easy ones first and built upon them to the advanced versions.

35) Medikit abilities look cool!  Can anyone with Medicine skill use them or are they just the domain of Medics?   I love the tricorder aspect.

36) I am a cruel DM so if Initiative is a tie, them monsters are getting a free surprise attack!  Monsters in RPGs never seem to surprise characters as much as you see in the movies.   I call it home court advantage.

37) I love the list of what you can NOT do in one round.  That is a great idea.

38)  I am unclear on why a Hard task at level 1 would become harder to achieve at 3rd level.  I always found that an issue with D20 where you never felt you became better because the TN just kept rising, negating your skill increase.   Part of XP growth should be about tasks becoming easier and truly heroic tasks becoming doable.

39)  The list of Ancient Technology is looking good.    What is the rationale for the "lost tech" aspect that keeps these old tech from becoming standard tech?   Could it be that the Ancients place some part of themselves in their tools so without access to Ancient DNA, you just can't make a factory that cranks out the super toys.

40)  Chameleon Cloak and the Invisibility Ring seem identical.  What about adding an LotR aspect to the Ring, aka some issues with psychic possession?   I love Gyrochucks!

41)  I like the monster modification concept.  Will you have some sort of CR charting so the DM knows what is a balanced fight per level?    How does Morale work?  

42) The monster DR looks very high across the board.   Augs with DR 3 mean that beam blades will fail to damage them 50% of the time.  Ouch!   I worry about how the Damage Reduction is going to slow down fights.   The Whiff factor looks very high between the high AC and the high DR.  

43) The basic monster list looks interesting.  I hope you have the dough to get artists to  create images for each of them.  Keep up the good work!

44) I like where the random Derelict chart is going.  I will be interested to see how the various entries develop with game effects (and maybe the common monster threats common to that entry).  Of course, this is probably the most important part of the game since it is the key to repeat gameplay.  As a DM, if I can whip up a cool Derelict in a short time, that would rock.   Certainly, an example Derelict adventure will be needed.

45) How is AI Controlled different from a Sentient Ship or a Living Ship?   Maybe the AI and Sentient can be combined so you can add 10% chance to having 2 unusual features per derelict.   Then 00 could result in 3 different features.    The weirder the better!    I would like to see a proliferation of oddities.  

46)  Once we know the basics of the derelict (Size + Weirdness), what resources are you going to give the DM for designing the interior?   Maybe there should be a list of common room types (bridge, engine room, hydroponics, etc) and maybe these can be detailed with charts of odd features as well.   It would be AWESEOME if the DD website had a randomizer program.  

47) What is the etiquette when two parties of delvers go after the same vessel?   Is Archive on Archive violence acceptable?  Is it every freelancer for himself?

48) I assume you are still working on the spaceship section.   That will be interesting.   One thing I missed from D&D was an easily workable boat-to-boat combat and boarding actions.  

49) In retrospect, I think non-mutated humans are too weak.  Maybe the pure human should get some minor bonus.  In one of the OSR clones (I think BFRP), they give humans a +10% XP bump as a balance factor.   AKA, if everyone earns 400 XP this adventure, the human gets 440.   I am more inclined to offer them a +1 HP per level or the ability to roll their HD twice and pick the higher result.   Of course, the humanoid who just gets chalk white skin isn't any better off than a pure human with no optional features.    

50) Overall, I am excited to see where Derelict Delvers is going.  It has a great combo of familiarity and freshness which means that it has a potential market.  I can see its appeal to 40k fans.  Anything you can add to enhance the retro-future feel would be great.  I know much of that will be in the art, but also promoted in the gear and game concepts.   More Ray Guns!   I was watching the re-mastered version of Forbidden Planet and I was thinking how DD would capture that feel very well.    I am looking forward to submitting articles to the DD magazine!

Cleaned up a few things. Left room for sidebars etc.

Still here

Quote from: Silverlion;356030the back concept is Espers have psi but it takes their little Crystaline implant (computer) to help them to big things. But that also was tied into a way of explaining "slots" for usage.

Crytalline Brain implants are cool way to explain slots.   So Espers are made, not born?  Or does this structure just show up in the heads of some people?  

There was a mention of Psitech.  Was that something of the Ancients?  Or is it just current Archive tech?

Quote from: Silverlion;356030Originally they were the cleric roll--which tended to be combat healers. People willing to brave fire to get up there and heal.  I need to fix triage. It is their first level ability, but might need to be removed and just leave them their specialist uses.

I do like the idea that Medics can do stuff with a Medikit that others cannot (or can't do easily) and certainly, the 40k Space Marine Chaplain fits the image of McCoy in a Power Armor.  

To expand the medic into more of a space cleric, let's look at the AD&D early level spells...

CLERIC FIRST
Bless / Command / Create Water / Cure Lights / Detect Evil / Detect Magic / Light / Protection from Evil / Purify Food & Water / Remove Fear / Resist Cold / Sanctuary.

CLERIC SECOND
Augury / Chant / Detect Charm / Find Traps / Hold Person / Know Alignment / Resist Fire / Silence / Slow Poison / Snake Charm / Speak with Animals / Spiritual Hammer

You have Cure Lights / Slow Poison / Sanctuary already covered.   Food isn't a real issue in sci-fi, but maybe the medi-kit has some kind of speciality that allow a nutrition / hydration boost to erase fatigue?

Bless / Remove Fear might be interesting.  Maybe the medic has the 40k Chaplain effect of increasing morale, calming troops who are panicking, etc.  Since their 9th level ability is essentially Respect Mah Authoritay, maybe we see this Anti-Fear aspect earlier.  Kinda like Battle Psychology?

The cleric also has lots of perceptive spells - Detect Charm / Evil / Magic / Augury - and maybe the Medic is also the master of the tricorder as well, uh I mean handscanner.   The scan and identify "specialities" would be another part of the medic class.

Clerics also Turn Undead.  That seems to be part of the medic's Sanctuary ability.  That Hippocratic Oath is awful powerful!
 

Quote from: Silverlion;356030The aim was anyone with medicine can help someone who is injured/hurt. Only medics can do it instantly in the field since Heroism points are the abstract things representing luck.

I like that distinction.  Very cool.

Quote from: Silverlion;356030He's infantry, not the commando. He's the guy at the frond of the charge.

Save the Commando for a class writeup in Delver Magazine!  The Soldier as the Shooting Wall works fine.  I like that Armor is his Excellent skill instead of Weapons.  It fits the Tank aspect nicely.

COMMENTS ON THE LATEST VERSION

I like the Introduction.  The "What is DD" is bumpy.

The Rivals sidebar is okay.  You may want a sidebar defining Space Opera and your thoughts on what DD should feel like.   I am also unsure what the plural of DM should be? DMs or DM's?

I really like the idea of trading in your found items for XP.  That nicely fits the theme.  Of course, the XP bonus would have to be notable.  Maybe level also has an aspect of rank within Archive?  

The name blurbs in the race sections is an interesting idea, but you might want a slightly larger offering for each one, laden with story hooks in addition to offering brush strokes of the setting.   Like Rha Utte who cured Panuan Pox might me more interesting as Rha Utte who vanished after claiming she found the cure to the dread Panuan Pox.  The 4e PHB did something like the character blurb, but I felt they somewhat missed the mark.

I like the biology breakdown on the races.  That was a cool aspect of Star Frontiers.  I once saw a game try that with fantasy and it was weird, but a bio-breakdown is cool with sci-fi.

The racial charts offer great bonuses and abilities.  Pure Humans seem dorked.  Or is DD a place where there aren't really any Pure Humans?  Instead, everybody has their oddity?  That could actually be cool.  Or maybe, there needs to be 01-30 Earth Man on the Feature list which offers its own bonus. Maybe +1 Attack bonus considering how warlike they are?

I always feel these charts are like getting candy on Halloween.  "I got rocks" is always unfun.  At worst, every table selection should provide some marshmallow Peeps or candy corn.

The humanoids have a 30% chance of Unsual Head Shape, but there is no corresponding table.  Make some weird heads!  Though, I am unsure how many weird heads there are.  Maybe Unusual Body Shape instead?  Extra arms, gigantism, dwarfism (now with Scottish accents), amphibious, etc?

Why no Blue skin on the chart?  

In regards to Charisma, how will it be part of a Derelict search?  How does it avoid being a dump stat?

I am a bit confused about Esper's Mindlock.  Is it like a Dispel Magic?

I am unclear how the Pilot's 3rd level power works.  Will it be detailed more in the Space Combat section?

I like the idea you can have a Delver team without a pilot.  And I am cool with the PCs having to hire transport (or rent a ship) to get to derelicts, especially at early levels.

I like the 9th level scout ability...but it needs a shorter name!  Good subtitle though.  The scout is a good choice for the WTF miracles that happen in space opera.

I am unsure if the 7th level Soldier ability is impressive enough.   Does Intimidate have significant effect in DD?  AKA, can his presence in a combat more likely break morale?

Also, since the Soldier does not have the Medicine skill, how do they roll a Healing roll during combat using their 9th level ability?

Chain Axe!  Awesome!  Blood for the blood god!

I like that primitive weapons can't parry advanced tech.  However, how does Parrying work?  Do you use your Weapon Skill + 10 for Defense when in melee?

I am unclear on the Difficulty chart.  At first level, an unskilled person with no bonus can succeed at a Hard task 70% of the time.   But at 10th level, they would fail 70% of the time when doing the same thing.

I love the Artifacts of Renown.  Both are awesome and scream out plot hooks, especially D'amaan's Device.   Looking forward to more of those.

In the type of Derelict chart, what does Small / Medium / Large mean exactly?  Is a Small craft like a shuttle?   Also, the percentages seems strange.  AKA, there is the same chance of finding a Small craft as finding a Ruined Metropolis?

I was trying to keep the chart design consistent across the board for ease of use and simplicity.

I can tweak them though for rarer things.

What should the different skin colors do? Or Head shapes? That's the biggest problem. If I'm trying to give everything a bonus, they need to make some logical sense--without too much stretching. So I'm willing to take suggestions.

Fixed a few things. I'm still looking for good quotes for a few things but its hard since I've not seen/read every possible space opera work.

Derelict Delvers

More cleaning up, a few fixes and changes. Still trucking onward. Derelict Delvers