So one of the things that intrigues me about oldschool D&D is the idea of Gold for XP, because its something I have never seen used at the table.

So assuming there is no module for this in the DMG,  I was thinking of using the following houserule:

QuoteAdvancement
You do not gain any experience for overcoming encounters.
For every 1 gp you spend on the following list, you gain 1 exp.

• Personal Food, Drink and Lodgings
• Donations to Temples or Charity
• Personal Training or Entertainment

To give you some metrics, a comfortable lifestyle from the play test cost 50 gp a month, so 50 exp per month could be seen as the default pace of advancement.

However, like I say I have never used Gold as XP in play, so has anyone any feedback?

rangers and druids never get XP? ;-)

Quote from: Sacrosanct;763194rangers and druids never get XP? ;-)

Well yes, but do you think the system has any flaws? ;o)


It is an interesting point actually, Rangers and Druids do not get any discount on the Lifestyle table or immunity to its horribleness.

training is the only one that makes sense to me, to be honest.  Otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of drunk gamblers who are level 10 wizards and warriors ;-)

Never did like gold for exp made it too easy to hire a bunch of redshirts to do what you should be doing in the first place. Which is removing a threat to the general populace more often then not that's why you get to keep what you find.

Removal or neutralizing doesn't only mean kill the threat by the way.

Just having "1 XP per GP spent roleplaying" would probably cover most things. So this could include gold characters spend wooing sweethearts, extra GP buying fancy but not more useful gear by foppish nobles in the party who demand the best in life, etc. As well as training (seeking a teacher could be seen as RP here too).

Quote from: Sacrosanct;763199training is the only one that makes sense to me, to be honest.  Otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of drunk gamblers who are level 10 wizards and warriors ;-)

Traditionally, it's for finding "treasure" which implies you pulled it out of some stanky dungeon

treasure for XP makes little sense.

The most sensible XP paradigms are

XP for using skills (and other abilities which includes combat)
XP for overcoming obstacles
XP for achieving goals (by overcoming obstacles)
XP for training

then you have XP awards that improve or colour the game style kind of Meta-xp

XP for roleplaying
XP for "participation" (people showing up, bringing snacks, doing sketchees etc )


XP for gold is just a shorthand and not very well realised achieving a goal. If you break into the merchants house defeat his pet basilisk by putting it to sleep or whatever and then steal his famous painting does it matter if the painting is worth 1000gp, 5000gp or if its a fake? the challenge was to steal the paining overcoming the obstacles on the way.

So the grog claim is that xp for gold drives a certain explor rather than fight style of play. Perhaps but a much better implementation of that would be xp for achievements.

Quote from: Marleycat;763204Never did like gold for exp made it too easy to hire a bunch of redshirts to do what you should be doing in the first place.

Ah, but that's one of the great decision points of old D&D -- hire hirelings and henchmen and your chance of survival goes up, but your share of the XP goes down.  Do you trade faster advancement for a higher chance of survival, or do you take your chances?

Quote from: jibbajibba;763293So the grog claim is that xp for gold drives a certain explor rather than fight style of play. Perhaps but a much better implementation of that would be xp for achievements.

You could definitely make that argument - GP for XP is just a tangible way of making that clear - the designer of the area should use appropriate treasure for the risk of getting there.

It's the achievement-driven play that I really care about, not GP for XP specifically.  GP for XP is just a pretty elegant way to express that, especially in games where the basic idea can hold.

I don't think it necessarily works as well outside of the dungeon, and when you start getting to "adventure paths" or the like it kinda starts failing.

Gold for XP?  Or flesh for fantasy?

co

Quote from: Iosue;763323Ah, but that's one of the great decision points of old D&D -- hire hirelings and henchmen and your chance of survival goes up, but your share of the XP goes down.  Do you trade faster advancement for a higher chance of survival, or do you take your chances?

Actually it's bigger then that. My conception of Dnd is....I AM A BIG DAMN HERO. Why not play Risk or a wargame if not? Even Blood Bowl isn't like that

And boys and girls that is the crux of the divide. Interestingly even OG knows his heroes created it from day 1.

Quote from: robiswrong;763325You could definitely make that argument - GP for XP is just a tangible way of making that clear - the designer of the area should use appropriate treasure for the risk of getting there.

It's the achievement-driven play that I really care about, not GP for XP specifically.  GP for XP is just a pretty elegant way to express that, especially in games where the basic idea can hold.

I don't think it necessarily works as well outside of the dungeon, and when you start getting to "adventure paths" or the like it kinda starts failing.

My XP award model in all games has mirrored objectives in the Corporate world for years.
So you get the mission objectives.

Bypass the maze of tears - 500xp
Locate the lost goblet of - 400xp
Deal with the Hydra to get to the Opal doorway - 1000xp
Open the Opal Doorway - 1000xp

Etc as i dont; plan these emerge through play but if I plan then I assign "things" points as they come up.

Then each player has 3 personal goals that must involve overcoming a challenge/obstacle

So -
Get elected Mayor of Hilltown - 1000xp
Uncover the identity of the thief that stole my horse 2 weeks ago - 300xp
Win the hand of Esmerelda in marriage - 2000xp

the points represet the time it takes to resolve that objective and the risk. As Esmerelda is the daugher of a famed bandit chieftan who has sworn he will kill you on sight and you know that only a gift of substanital proportions or the head of his arch enemy Captain Hoos will be enough, its a major challenge.

It never made sense to me, even back in the old days when I was 10, that you could kill, trap, outwit a troll to get to its treasure and if you got lucky you got 3000xps each due to that hen eggs sized diamond but if you got unlucky you got 300xp each and a few coins. Same risk, same strategy entirely different reward.

Quote from: jibbajibba;763338It never made sense to me, even back in the old days when I was 10, that you could kill, trap, outwit a troll to get to its treasure and if you got lucky you got 3000xps each due to that hen eggs sized diamond but if you got unlucky you got 300xp each and a few coins. Same risk, same strategy entirely different reward.

There's a lot of "slot machine" in old D&D.  What you're really 'winning' is a pull of the handle.

Quote from: jibbajibba;763338My XP award model in all games has mirrored objectives in the Corporate world for years.
So you get the mission objectives.

Bypass the maze of tears - 500xp
Locate the lost goblet of - 400xp
Deal with the Hydra to get to the Opal doorway - 1000xp
Open the Opal Doorway - 1000xp

Etc as i dont; plan these emerge through play but if I plan then I assign "things" points as they come up.

Then each player has 3 personal goals that must involve overcoming a challenge/obstacle

So -
Get elected Mayor of Hilltown - 1000xp
Uncover the identity of the thief that stole my horse 2 weeks ago - 300xp
Win the hand of Esmerelda in marriage - 2000xp

the points represet the time it takes to resolve that objective and the risk. As Esmerelda is the daugher of a famed bandit chieftan who has sworn he will kill you on sight and you know that only a gift of substanital proportions or the head of his arch enemy Captain Hoos will be enough, its a major challenge.

It never made sense to me, even back in the old days when I was 10, that you could kill, trap, outwit a troll to get to its treasure and if you got lucky you got 3000xps each due to that hen eggs sized diamond but if you got unlucky you got 300xp each and a few coins. Same risk, same strategy entirely different reward.

So you've boiled it down to a corporate plan.....interesting.