Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;763248Just having "1 XP per GP spent roleplaying" would probably cover most things. So this could include gold characters spend wooing sweethearts, extra GP buying fancy but not more useful gear by foppish nobles in the party who demand the best in life, etc. As well as training (seeking a teacher could be seen as RP here too).

Yeah, I think that's pretty much my intent, but I would prefer at least some sort of structured list.

I've used two methods for Gold for XP.

The first is the original OD&D concept that your adventurer is rewarded in XP based on the treasure they steal from the depths of the dungeon. Phat Loots, not Mad Killz, was the name of the game. This option promotes a playstyle where the PCs care more about sneaking / exploring and less about killing - in fact, this option makes players focus on avoiding combat. With the right group, its lots of fun.

The second method is Conan-inspired and I understand promoted by Dave Arneson, where the PC gets XP by spending gold like a crazy rockstar. PCs are spendthrift daredevils who have entourages, commission sculptures of themselves and throw orgies. With the right group, its really lots of great fun as players get creative about spending their loot.

XP and playstyle are intertwined. If you want to certain actions in your game, make that how people get XP.

Quote from: Marleycat;763335co

Actually it's bigger then that. My conception of Dnd is....I AM A BIG DAMN HERO.

That is ONE way to play and its a valid one. I like more variety in D&D characters. Some are big damn heroes (or really want to be), others just want a shortcut to wealth & fame and some others may just be whack jobs or adrenaline junkies and being in mortal danger excites them.

XP for treasure can serve all these types. The heroes can give most of their wealth to those in need, the greedy types can live like rock stars, the nut jobs can do whatever they want with it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;763369I've used two methods for Gold for XP.

The first is the original OD&D concept that your adventurer is rewarded in XP based on the treasure they steal from the depths of the dungeon. Phat Loots, not Mad Killz, was the name of the game. This option promotes a playstyle where the PCs care more about sneaking / exploring and less about killing - in fact, this option makes players focus on avoiding combat. With the right group, its lots of fun.

The second method is Conan-inspired and I understand promoted by Dave Arneson, where the PC gets XP by spending gold like a crazy rockstar. PCs are spendthrift daredevils who have entourages, commission sculptures of themselves and throw orgies. With the right group, its really lots of great fun as players get creative about spending their loot.

XP and playstyle are intertwined. If you want to certain actions in your game, make that how people get XP.

Exactly. I use the first method for treasure XP. The Conan method looks like a lot of fun but a fighter who has to spend all of his/her money to get XP will never be able to afford clearing a hex and building a keep.

I also give XP for encounters regardless of how they are resolved. Combat, negotiation, trickery, or an attempt at any of the above that ends with the party fleeing for their lives earns full XP.

XP is a system that subsidizes the kind of behavior you want to see more of. In my fantasy game, you get XP for taking gold. You also get it for exploring an area or observing a monster. You don't get more XP for a fight than you do for the observation.

In my pirates game, you get XP for securing treasure: spending it, banking it, or hiding it. Merely picking it up isn't sufficient, and I don't care how they do it.

You (all) should consider using XP as a "good play subsidy" what we you define as good play.

Money laundering merchants become demigods in short order. Quickly devolves into he who has the gold makes the rules.

Better to have a range of XP potential and then have a GM assess the "learning value" of each encounter/experience-worthy act as per the subject. A spray of options and a critical thinker is worth more than all the statutory volumes I can scribble.

Just like a 10th lvl fighter slaughtering 3 goblins huddled in fear by a tree in a single round is not really XP worthy, nor is routinely skimming the shake and spillage in the spice warehouse worth XP regardless the GP it nets you.

Quote from: Opaopajr;763559Money laundering merchants become demigods in short order.

That's why there on limits that the money must be spent on Personal items, Trade goods don't count.

Quote from: jadrax;763561That's why there on limits that the money must be spent on Personal items, Trade goods don't count.

Think further. That stops nothing as merchants still become demigods. Additionally you placed no limits on selling off one's stuff secondhand.

Quote from: Opaopajr;763574Think further. That stops nothing as merchants still become demigods. Additionally you placed no limits on selling off one's stuff secondhand.

Feel free to spell out your concerns, this is the design form after all.

Quote from: Opaopajr;763574Think further. That stops nothing as merchants still become demigods. Additionally you placed no limits on selling off one's stuff secondhand.

"XP for GP only counts for 'treasure' recovered from dungeons or other hostile places.

Money acquired via trading, or even selling of found equipment doesn't count.  'treasure' is the key word.  If Indy wouldn't want it, it don't count."

XP should measure something in-game which correlates to the players having a good time at the table. It doesn't have to be one thing or another. It should be some thing or things in game that the characters do though.

Wheat ever works for you, that's what it should be. But it should measure something, it should be a character activity, and it should subsidize fun.

That's really broad I know but it's a good place to start.

Quote from: robiswrong;763588"XP for GP only counts for 'treasure' recovered from dungeons or other hostile places.

Money acquired via trading, or even selling of found equipment doesn't count.  'treasure' is the key word.  If Indy wouldn't want it, it don't count."

What the hell are you talking about, follow the OP topic:

Advancement
You do not gain any experience for overcoming encounters.
For every 1 gp you spend on the following list, you gain 1 exp.
Personal Food, Drink and Lodgings
Donations to Temples or Charity
Personal Training or Entertainment


That is a recipe for trouble.

Quote from: Opaopajr;764940What the hell are you talking about, follow the OP topic:

Advancement
You do not gain any experience for overcoming encounters.
For every 1 gp you spend on the following list, you gain 1 exp.
Personal Food, Drink and Lodgings
Donations to Temples or Charity
Personal Training or Entertainment


That is a recipe for trouble.

Agreed.  The thing you quoted was in quotes because that's what I'd tell my players.

Otherwise, you get situations where you can merchant your way to 20th level.

Let me give an example of how gold for XP works.

In my pirates game, the scurvy dogs gain most of their XP from treasure, and a lesser amount for experiencing new peoples, places and things and then boasting about them back in town.

No XP for combat.

The XP from treasure isn't instantaneous, either. You have to "secure" your treasure in one of three ways:

1) spending it
2) hiding it
3) putting it in the Royal Bank.

Depending on the character of a particular pirate, the third option might never happen- but you can still bury it in the jungle and make yourself a treasure map...

The key here is, the XP comes from using the gold or securing it for later use. It also comes from exploring and living to tell the tale. Both of these are tangible game actions tied to RP in a minor way, that reinforce the pirate way of life- the fiction of the setting.

The case of the Demigod merchant won't ever happen because pirates aren't in the business of respectable labour. They steal money and squander it, or stick it in a hole in the ground.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;764970Let me give an example of how gold for XP works...

The XP from treasure isn't instantaneous, either. You have to "secure" your treasure in one of three ways:

1) spending it
2) hiding it
3) putting it in the Royal Bank.

Depending on the character of a particular pirate, the third option might never happen- but you can still bury it in the jungle and make yourself a treasure map...

The key here is, the XP comes from using the gold or securing it for later use. It also comes from exploring and living to tell the tale. Both of these are tangible game actions tied to RP in a minor way, that reinforce the pirate way of life- the fiction of the setting.

The case of the Demigod merchant won't ever happen because pirates aren't in the business of respectable labour. They steal money and squander it, or stick it in a hole in the ground.

Neither do merchants, respectable labour (as many a society defines it). The big difference is access to foundations, merchant guilds, letters of credit, legitimacy, preferential protection by authority, etc. You know, the whole framework of civilization. So who's going to profit from this faster?

Sure you can favor pirates and the like in your games, but from a direct read of those rules the inherent logic completely says otherwise. GM adjudication and more options is key because as written those rules are asking for trouble.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;763199training is the only one that makes sense to me, to be honest.  Otherwise you'll end up with a bunch of drunk gamblers who are level 10 wizards and warriors ;-)

Like Conan, Fafhrd and Mouser, the Three Musketeers, Hercules, Beowulf, etc.?