Quote from: MGuy;577323What do you want your barbarian to be able to do exactly?

I want him to be the mobile, capable of taking down large numbers of mooks or going toe to toe with individual "boss" monsters, and a melee specialist. Fluff wise, I've already got the light armor, fight using everything, rage, etc.

An in-combat self-healing option might be nice?

I had also considered rage-based boosts to the ordinary powers, though I'm not sure how to implement those things.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;577325I am a fan of giving barbarians some kind of mounted archery or other mounted skills. I think the Tancteri were known for dismounting rapidly from their horses to engage in melee for example. Not sure how you would express that mechanically here though.

My barb is a little more Hulk Smash! so far and a little less historical. So far anyway. Could change.

Mounted combat I'll probably file under generic perks and powers, as it's something I want everyone with the cash to drop on a mount to be able to do.

The archery niche will probably be split between generics (I want weapon speccing of all kinds to be available to most) and hunters most likely.

Unique abilities for mounted combat may be interesting, and I'll keep in mind mount-leaping for later.

For hulk smash type barbarians, I would probably go with stuff like damage bonuses, something that enables them to take a beating, and perks like that. However I would be careful with that stuff if you have fighters in the system or if your generic fighter class has enough optional abilities that they can basiclaly cobble together a barbarian without having a whole seperate class. Would suggest any damage boost abilities they get come with an accuracy penalty to attacks.

I'd say give them your game's equivalent of Temporary hit points when they enter rage. Temporary hit points usually doesn't piss people off. If you will allow them to get it I'd also suggest some kind of rapid healing option.

For area damaging I am hesistant to add anything. I don't know if hitting an area is a protected thing or if it's as simple as getting "Cleave" in your game.

For mobility I'd say give him a lot of movement options. Leaping charges to avoid difficult terrain. Some kind of limited invulnerability or DR that makes it so people can't stop your charges. Shit like that should work.

Outside of what you mentioned tribal rituals, gaining enhanced perception abilities (Like Wolverine) some stealth (since he's probably a hunter) and similar abilities might be appropriate.

Here's how "Barbarians" look in my game if it helps:
Savage – Savages are barbarous fighters who, in one way or another, revel in conflict. Savages may be possessed by a spirit of fury, get lost in the visceral nature of combat, or any number of things that make them better suited for combat.

Class Skills:
HP
Martial Proficiency
Animal Handling
Climb
Intimidate
Jump
Perception
Survival
Fortitude
Dodge
Mana Generation Method – The Savage enjoys combat. Both civil and brutal Savages get a certain thrill when thrust into combat. Because of this they are able to do their best when on edge. Whenever a Savage is Damaged they gain Mana equal to one point for every 2 points of Damage they incur. Savages still have the regular limit of how much Mana they can retain. When pushed beyond that maximum Savages enter a form of Rage.

Berserker – Berserkers are crazed Savages who channel their love of battle into destructive power. They are adept at not only over powering their opponents with the sheer amount of raw muscle power they can muster but our adept at putting their foes off balance through the frightful fashion in which they fight.
Primary Abilities
1st Level
Berserk [Rage] – Berserkers are adept at calling upon their inner fury to bring forth incredible physical powers. When Raging a Berserker may go Berserk. For each Level of Rage you achieve you gain a +2 Mundane Bonus to Power Score. While Berserk you receive a -2 Penalty to Dodge per Level of Rage.

3rd Level
Mighty Swing [Attack, Mana] – Berserkers are able to squeeze their souls to do more damage pushing themselves past even the mightiest warriors. When you Attack you may opt to spend Mana to hit harder at the cost of your accuracy. For every point of Mana  you spend you increase the Damage you deal on a hit by 2 but lower your Accuracy by 1.

5th Level
Insurmountable [Sub, Morph] – While in Rage you may gain may Temporary HP by channeling your SHP. This Temporary HP only lasts for as long as you stay in Rage and is lost when your Rage ends. You may channel up to your Level in Temporary HP.

Sub Abilities
2nd Level
Intimidating Presence – When someone would take Fear Damage you may use your Mana as a non Action to increase the Fear Damage they take by an equal amount.

Tempest
Primary Abilities
1st Level
Frenzy [Rage] – Tempests are adept at calling upon their inner storm to turn themselves into a dangerous whirling tempest. When Raging a Tempest may go into a Frenzy. For each Level of Rage you achieve you gain a +2 Mundane Bonus to Agility Score. While in Frenzy you receive a -2 Penalty to Dodge per Level of Rage.

3rd Level
Tempest's Swing [Attack, Mana, Area, Channel, Augment] – Tempests are able to enter spins that allow them to whip up The wind around them. When you Attack whether you miss or hit you may utilize Mana and whip or a stirring wind that gives you some cover and disrupts incoming Attacks. When used this ability covers all squares in your Natural Reach +1 square per point of Mana spent. Perception Checks, Ranged Attacks, Area Attacks made on Targets within the area suffer a -2 Penalty for each point of Mana spent. While this Ability is active you cannot move from your current Square. If you are forced to move or are Damaged you must make a Concentration Check using just your Agility Score against a DC equal to 10 + 1 for each Square you moved or each point of Damage you took. If you are Teleported or somehow otherwise instantly removed from the place you were at the Ability ends immediately.

5th Level
Vacuum Swing [Attack, Mana, Area, Channel, Augment] – Tempests may draw in Targets with a great swing and a rapid spin. When this Ability is used all Targets in your Reach + a number of Squares equal to the Mana you use. All Targets in the area of this Ability are treated to a Pull Attempt. Targets that are Pulled to you because of this Ability are knocked Prone. While this Ability is active you cannot move from your current Square. If you are forced to move or are Damaged you must make a Concentration Check using just your Agility Score against a DC equal to 10 + 1 for each Square you moved or each point of Damage you took. If you are Teleported or somehow otherwise instantly removed from the place you were at the Ability ends immediately.

Sub Abilities
2nd Level
Fast Movement – Your Move Speed increases by a number of Squares equal to half your Level.

Juggernaut
Primary Abilities
1st Level
Grit [Rage] – Juggernauts are truly unstoppable combatants, able to shrug off blows that would stop others in their tracks. When Raging a Juggernaut may gain Grit. For each Level of Rage you achieve you gain a +2 Mundane Bonus to Resilience Score and Temporary HP equal to their Level. While in Frenzy you receive a -2 Penalty to Dodge per Level of Rage.

3rd Level
Juggernaut [Passive] – Attacks that hit and Damage but don't overcome Damage Reduction are considered a Miss.

5th Level
Stubborn [Passive] – Your Physical Damage Reduction can be used for your Magic Damage Reduction whenever you make an Active Defense.

Sub Abilities
2nd Level
Ram – You may add your Resilience Bonus to Damage on any Action that involves a Charge.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;577350For hulk smash type barbarians, I would probably go with stuff like damage bonuses, something that enables them to take a beating, and perks like that. However I would be careful with that stuff if you have fighters in the system or if your generic fighter class has enough optional abilities that they can basiclaly cobble together a barbarian without having a whole seperate class. Would suggest any damage boost abilities they get come with an accuracy penalty to attacks.

I didn't include a generic fighter. So far the only point of overlap with the soldier is the area attack. The soldier is more "defender" and the barbarian more "striker" in 4e terms, in that the barbarian moves better while the soldier is built for group fighting and preventing movement.

Quote from: MGuy;577352I'd say give them your game's equivalent of Temporary hit points when they enter rage. Temporary hit points usually doesn't piss people off. If you will allow them to get it I'd also suggest some kind of rapid healing option.

Rapid healing is definitely on the table here. I need to determine how to differentiate the rapid self-healing of the barbarian from the similar abilities of trolls and druids.

The barbarian is likely to have the most basic version, while the troll may have better wound healing (maybe being able to actually spend hp to fix wounds) and I'm not as sure yet about the druid.

QuoteFor area damaging I am hesistant to add anything. I don't know if hitting an area is a protected thing or if it's as simple as getting "Cleave" in your game.

So far the soldier has a hit everybody in melee power already. My main fear with the barbarian is just repetitiveness. It would also be ideal to write up something that works better with running around than a full action melee area effect. Since movement is part of a barbarian's shtick.

QuoteFor mobility I'd say give him a lot of movement options. Leaping charges to avoid difficult terrain. Some kind of limited invulnerability or DR that makes it so people can't stop your charges. Shit like that should work.

DR is definitely there, and the charge has been made a bbn power. Ignoring terrain might be a good add-on.

QuoteSub Abilities
2nd Level
Intimidating Presence – When someone would take Fear Damage you may use your Mana as a non Action to increase the Fear Damage they take by an equal amount.

Ooh... intimidation related stuff might be good. He's already got the mid-range throwing, but the ability to scare people would be cool.

QuoteSub Abilities
2nd Level
Fast Movement – Your Move Speed increases by a number of Squares equal to half your Level.

A full +1 zone would be a big damn deal. If I upped it to a full +2 zones during a rage it would be pretty crazy. Equivalent of +40 ft at that point.

QuoteJuggernaut

Just the name is making me think of how this guy should be unstoppable. Some kind of moving and knocking a bunch of guys over in the process.


I just highlighted the cool bits. My game is a little more "broad strokes" so some things (exchanging bonuses/penalties) are barred by default.


Additionally, while I had the idea of +x to break objects, it might be interesting to actually translate that into terrain effects. Breaking floors and/or ceilings indoors for example. That may be a product of breaking objects rather than a power in and of itself though.

Size increase should be on the table to or something like "Powerful Build" where they count as one size larger whenever it would benefit them. If you're going to make smashing objects a thing I'd say have it just give a generic effect that you don't mind being used often. Smashing through walls would be cool but there are certain limitations you might want to give it.

Quote from: MGuy;577413Size increase should be on the table to or something like "Powerful Build" where they count as one size larger whenever it would benefit them. If you're going to make smashing objects a thing I'd say have it just give a generic effect that you don't mind being used often. Smashing through walls would be cool but there are certain limitations you might want to give it.

In this case rage gives a damage swap for the max dice I'm willing to give (3d12), and the size of item they can wield will probably include things up to their own size/weight (so that they can use people as weapons). Barbarians can pick up the giant's club, a chair, an axe, a sheep, whatever. It all does 3d12 and can be thrown a short distance.

Damage piling can break the system, given the massive damage threshold. So bonus damage is something I'll tend to avoid.

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On a related note, I was thinking of having trolls use powerful build or something similar. Large but no fiddling with reach in any case. Not entirely certain of the statistical effects of troll and goblin size yet though. Certainly it'll hit grappling at the very least.

On trolls, instead of allowing 3d12 all the time with two handed fighting (3d12 is rage and sneak attack only so far) I may allow two handed weapons to be wielded in one hand.

Wow it has been a while.

So I thought on powers a bit yesterday.

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For two-weapon fighting, I'm considering some variation of the following set of powers:

Double strike will give +1D up to 3 dice. It's mainly for letting a fighter use light weapons and still deal good damage. There may need to be a special rule for mismatched weapons.

Split strike will allow you to target one foe with each weapon. It may be a single attack roll.

Two-weapon defense would cost a move action and improve your passive AC by 5 (probably wouldn't stack with the similar soldier stance, and I'll probably make that require a full action to activate now).

(unnamed) will allow you to hit someone with one weapon and use a maneuver with the other, but all on one roll. Probably a main action.

If I can get a fifth power for this, I'll also write a stance called two-weapon master or something. It'll negate penalties or improve effects on all of the two-weapon fighting powers. The prereqs would be level 5+ and any three twf powers.

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I'm also thinking of the hunter now.

I'm thinking the hunter should be able to "snipe" as it were. So taking a move action to aim will replace damage with 3d12 on any bow or crossbow.

Other powers/stances may pile other non-damage improvements on the same attack. Longer range, ignoring or reducing the effects of cover/concealment, debilitating effects, etc. All for the cost of that same one move action.

The hunter should also have stances to help reduce the effects of rough terrain and take better advantage of cover/concealment.

And so far that's all I've got.

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The ability to hit many targets with a ranged weapon (thrown or projectile) should be a generic power. I know it'll probably hit a group (certainly not a zone) but I'm not sure how much ammo it should cost, or whether/how I should cap the number of targets.

Mounted fighting powers/stances should be generic, but I want it/them to do something more useful than penalty negation.

So far checking through, there's the occasional crazy thing that can be done.

A rogue could use double strike or an area effect with thrown daggers while he was in the stance that prevents people he hits from making AoOs. This could really enhance the effectiveness of that stance. Now, double strike will have a penalty and only hit two foes, and the area attack would be a full attack (so no move in the same round). But if I allow a warlord to grant move actions by way of powers? Could be big.

Still, this is the kind of combo I am really okay with for a few reasons:

1) It's only useful in narrow circumstances (you have to move past someone who is blocking your path). Therefore it won't be spammed by those who are able to do it. In combat action will still vary even allowing for the existence of this combo.

2) Its cost is relatively high. In character building terms it's a minimum of two perks for the weakest version, and it's at least a stance and a full action to pull off (plus the action spent to activate the stance). For the costliest version, there is another perk (the action granting), another character (if the warlord is incapacitated or absent, this doesn't work), and another main action.

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There's been a lot of talk about charop and traps lately. I really do think there's room for charop gameplay and design within a mainstream game, same as I think there's room for old-school-based difficulty in scenario design. The above is what I'd consider a good place to allow charop because the outcome should be fun and the potential damage (potential for spamming, false choice, traps, taxes) is minimal.

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Outside of that though, am I right in thinking the costs are proportional? Or that the application of this combo is circumstantial? Or do you think it outweighs the other options you've seen so far?

I'm considering changing tiers to an every three(ish) levels thing. So first would be 0-3, second would be 4-6, third would be 7-9, fourth would be 10-12, and a fifth would be 13-15 (there would be five tiers in this case).

Every tier would increase the number of stances you could have active by 1 as usual. And (from the other thread) I was going to have healing dice increase at intervals of 3 anyway, so this sort of works out.

This helps on a few levels.

1) The math worked best up to level 15 IMO.
2) People could actually get to second tier powers in fewer than 6 months.
3) There were odd jumps in the old descriptions of the tiers previously.
4) I only need to think up like 6 powers per class per tier this way.
5) It would set the level cap nearer the cap for material plane monsters.

The current draft of the sorcerer has all the powers described upthread. Energy auras (fire, lighting, and ice), metamagic (longer range, wider effect), and the magic shield will all be a main action to cast, as will the missile. The missile, by default, will be 2d10 short range (into the next zone) and affect a group. And fog and soft earth will each be rituals to cast.

At first level, a sorcerer gets missile and shield for free. Maybe a ritual (possibly something rune related), to be decided later.

In the three subsequent levels of the first tier, a sorcerer might be able to pick up one energy, one metamagic, and one of either fog or soft earth. Alternately they could pick up two energies, metamagics, or terrain effects and drop one whole category. Hell, they could even get all energies. But they won't get all energies, all metamagics, and all terrain effects. That would take seven levels, and by that time new options would have opened up.

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So far for the second tier I have two auras.

The first is a cloak aura. The cloak damages people at melee range continuously for 1d10. It would be a main action to cast. If a caster used improved range to hurt someone far away with it, it would take an action to move it.

The second is an increased effect aura. This would increase damage or DR from sorcerer spells and auras. (cloak would be 2d10, missile would be 3d10, and shield would have increased DR).

Besides these things, maybe I ought to think of new terrain and energy effects? As long as I can bump the number of available perks at this tier up to at least 5 I should be alright.

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At tier 2 or 3 stunlocking will open up. Cloak plus lightning could repeatedly stun a group without the caster spending actions every round (the group's got to be about 5 levels lower for these kinds of repeated wounds to be plausible though, so it's more of a level 6 and up thing). Typically something I'm against.

However, at tier 2 or 3, an enemy sorcerer could shield his allies (increased area shield) and drastically reduce the odds of wounding. Sure, at level 6 he could also use a third stance to beef up the range, area, or damage. But by that time a rival mage could also use a third stance to negate any of those advantages.

Now there won't be an enemy sorcerer all the time, but there are plenty of answers for breaking the stun lock. If the victims of this tactic have anyone who isn't stunned, shooting or stabbing the caster will suffice to interrupt the auras and allow people to escape.

The availability of these things also implies when certain monster energy attacks and resistances might be appropriate on the other side of things. So that's helpful.

For the warlord, there will be 3 sort of categories of power I need to deal with (so far).

Action Granting powers will do what they say on the tin. I figure that there should be some inefficiency here. You could grant a move action by spending a main action, a defense by spending a move action, or a main action by spending a full action (though that last one seems unlikely to make it in to the final version).

Boons and Stances will improve the capabilities of allies and followers in concrete ways. Warlord boons will effectively be speeches and impromptu training given before a fight. Boons go in the stance slots of willing targets. Typically they won't be as good as peoples' own stances, but they open up new options. An example would be a skill training boon that lets people act as if trained in a given skill for a while. So a bunch of peasants can act like archers under the tutelage of a warlord who is good at archery. Warlord stances that help people out will conversely be the kind of thing where he has to hold their hand through whatever they're doing.

Morale-based healing as discussed in the thread going on this topic at the moment, warlord healing has the benefit of being usable at a longer range. However, it will not remove conditions the way cleric healing does. It may at least remove stunned and staggered, though allowing it to remove staggered may boost the barbarian a bit much (since staggering is how the barbarian's rage is ended).

There may be some miscellaneous others. Extra saves, ignoring specific wound effects, etc.

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The big question is what powers to choose as the level 0 warlord powers. 1 of each category might be nice. Maybe the skill training boon, the move action granting power, and the healing power? But then what stance would be appropriate? Should I take the skill training boon and make it a warlord stance instead?

Maybe I should move from the general to the specific on the powers list before I decide.

Finally getting back on this project, and looking to put together a rough play test document and... well... test the basics that I currently have fleshed out. Right now the stats are down to seven (the dexterity split was functionally pointless) and I have a rough list of skill groups (movement, social, nobility, wilderness, devices, larceny, magic). I figured classes and races should get two saves each (out of the five available) and that any character should be trained in a minimum of three saves. I also figured each class and race should get a power and a stance, but I don't know how strict I'll be there. And there are lots of gaps in my list at the moment.

I'll probably also add where needed that various characters can swap in (their prime score) for certain skills. So magic might, by default, work on either will or int. But a caster is going to use his prime stat instead. Or barbarians use all weapons through strength. That sort of thing.

Attached is the current version of the character options list. The individual options are not yet fleshed out very much. Any feedback, questions, or ideas would be hugely appreciated.