So, there is a desire here to have ways of developing games that depend more on craft and less on theory.

The other day I got pointed to a series of five essays by Brian Gleichman, called elements of gaming.  You can find them at http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=elements

They are very, very good.  Clear and well written and address a number of issues I routinely see people get confused by.  In particular, the analysis of tactics and the analysis of levels of design are very useful, with the levels of design one speaking to a point I routinely see indie guys get confused by - the notion that a game with nothing but combat rules may not be about combat.

This is a critical point, I so often see indie fans talking about how game x is only about dungeons or game y is only about killing things because if it were about other stuff there would be rules for other stuff.  In saying that, often they profoundly miss the point.

So, I recommend these articles, they're worth reading and they are precisely the sort of thing I think is relevant here.  Craft based rather than theory based, rooted in the realities of gaming, aimed precisely at creating a better rpg experience which still recognisably is an rpg experience.  Check 'em out.

Quote from: BalbinusThis is a critical point, I so often see indie fans talking about how game x is only about dungeons or game y is only about killing things because if it were about other stuff there would be rules for other stuff.  In saying that, often they profoundly miss the point.

Thanks for the link. I used to consider Gleichman an ally of sorts on RPGnet. I was a bit sad when he stomped out of there.

Brian Gleichman is one of those people that when he disagrees with me I shut up and seriously reconsider my position, 'cause he's usually right on the money.

Very good articles.  Solid, craft-based observations.  Here's an excerpt I find interesting:

QuoteFor example, it's easy to say that D20 or Age of Heroes are purely hack and slash designs given that most of the rules cover combat and near combat events. They have forgotten the importance of the Meta-Game level and the fact that both games are specifically designed to use it for certain parts of the campaign. It's entirely possible for a group to spend five gaming nights in pure role-playing without a single die being toss, and then engage in a single evening's combat. To characterized such a campaign as hack and slash would be a grave error- and a defining statement of the limits of looking at a single Layer.

Quote from: jrientsBrian Gleichman is one of those people that when he disagrees with me I shut up and seriously reconsider my position, 'cause he's usually right on the money.

I'd like to see him stick around here for a bit this time...

Yep, thanks!  Insightful stuff.

I started reading them, couldn't stop, and now I'm late for work!  

Quote from: Caesar Slaad

Thanks for the link. I used to consider Gleichman an ally of sorts on RPGnet. I was a bit sad when he stomped out of there.

There were a lot of lies tossed around about my leaving RPGNet, the same as at the Forge (although I will give Clinton credit for telling the truth with respect to the latter- not that everyone at the Forge followed his example).

At RPGNet, the truth of the matter was that the mods of the site made clear to me in PM that I would no longer be allowed to defend myself from attacks from Forge groupies, nor could I speak on GNS or other matters of theory. It wasn't a ban as such, but rather a warning of a ban.

Given that all I did at RPGNet was basically theory debates, I felt that I was no longer welcomed and I have always left when that became the case.

Besides, under such limits I had no reason to stay.

I don't actually think badly of RPGNet due to this specific case (I have other reasons to think badly of them). Edwards and crew ran (and run) a popular website and I'm certain that given the choice between losing the much more numerous Forge crowd or losing me- there really wasn't much of choice. RPGNet is in it for the money after all and it was a practical choice on their part.

Quote from: BalbinusThe other day I got pointed to a series of five essays by Brian Gleichman, called elements of gaming.  You can find them at http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=elements

Thanks (to you and others) for the comments.

Those were written to provide a reference to concepts that I found myself stating over and over again. Something I could link to, more than something to be used by others. Frankly I don't think that many are interested in the style of game design they speak to.

It does seem however that a lot of people really liked them, even if they don't intend to use them. Interesting that.

They are also up at http://home.comcast.net/~b.gleichman/ under the theory link. Included there is the last Elements I wrote, but wasn't published on RGPNet.

Quote from: gleichmanAt RPGNet, the truth of the matter was that the mods of the site made clear to me in PM that I would no longer be allowed to defend myself from attacks from Forge groupies, nor could I speak on GNS or other matters of theory. It wasn't a ban as such, but rather a warning of a ban.

The mods are one of the reasons I don't post as much over on RPG.net anymore. They act like ass clowns to the posters and when a poster questions their conduct the get banned. Not cool.

Hey, Gleichman is Back! Awesome!

Somebody start the clock. Put $20 down for me on the "Leaves within 4-6 weeks" block.


-Andy

Quote from: Andy KHey, Gleichman is Back! Awesome!

Somebody start the clock. Put $20 down for me on the "Leaves within 4-6 weeks" block.


-Andy

If I'm not gone by then, I'll pay you the $20.

Quote from: McrowThe mods are one of the reasons I don't post as much over on RPG.net anymore. They act like ass clowns to the posters and when a poster questions their conduct the get banned. Not cool.

I've heard the horror stories of what's happened to RPGNet and I could see it coming in the months before I left. Heck, I saw it coming when they first enabled moderation. You can't go that route without becoming either a lowest common denominator or a one-true way site (or both).

The fact that it also became a business sealed its fate.

It still has high traffic, and that likely means they think they're doing everthing right. However they are also bleeding their most interesting people (I've noticed some here). If they want to be the MacDonald's of the rpg, let them be that. I'd rather go to the hole-in-the-wall burger joint that can give you a heart-attack in one serving let alone seconds.

Not that the criticism isn't interesting, but...

These elements of yours.  Have you had any new thoughts on them since you wrote those essays?

Quote from: Levi KornelsenThese elements of yours.  Have you had any new thoughts on them since you wrote those essays?

The published ones?

Nope. They are basically what they are and while I could perhaps expand them (and edit some typos/sentence structures) I don't see anything that I'd change.

There were a number of ideas I had for future articles. But as they were intended to explain my viewpoint to people I no longer needed to explain to (as I gave up an online presence)- I never wrote them. I have however used them in creating my own rules.

Where'd your Eeyore avatar go?

-O

Quote from: obrynWhere'd your Eeyore avatar go?

I don't use avatars but the nutkins required them. So I had to find something.

Now that they're gone, the first thing I did was remove it. I almost miss it.