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Other Games, Development, & Campaigns => Design, Development, and Gameplay => Topic started by: Zulgyan on May 04, 2008, 10:51:23 pm

Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 04, 2008, 10:51:23 pm
So, D&D (mi favorite game) uses:

STRENGTH
INTELLIGENCE
WISDOM
CONSTITUTION
DEXTERITY
CHARISMA

I'm creating an RPG of my own based on the Argentinean comic NIPPUR de LAGASH*, and I want to see many different approaches to the basic attribute scores.
You can help me by posting how is this is done in different games you know. We can discuss about it too.

Thanks beforehand,

Z.


* NIPPUR DE LAGASH (Nippur from Lagash) was a comic that boomed in the 70s in Argentina. I tells the stories of a wandering Sumerian warrior in the ancient world.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Aos on May 04, 2008, 11:34:19 pm
I'm going to have to see that comic.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Aos on May 04, 2008, 11:43:05 pm
Tons of it here:
http://www.esnips.com/web/Nippur

Welcome Zulgyan y gracias!
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 05, 2008, 12:30:49 am
Oh my God! I was unaware of that LINK!

Awesome

Thanks!
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 05, 2008, 12:34:59 am
Aos, where are you from? Do you speak spanish?
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Aos on May 05, 2008, 01:00:39 am
I'm from the US, and I do speak Spanish, but not as well as I would like. I can hold up my end of a conversation (after I'm warmed up) but I'm sure I sound like a retard to a native speaker.
BTW, I'm an Archaeologist and I do my field work in Northern Spain. These comics blend two of my favorite things, Ancient History and Spanish. Thanks again for drawing my attention to them. I go to Spain in three weeks and I'll be reading one of these every day between now and then.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 05, 2008, 01:06:59 am
I'm from Argentina. This is an Argentinean comic. It's my favorite comic of all time and it's has it's one personality (very "Tango" in mood, that is... pessimistic and cynic).

If you are interested, the development of the game is currently being discussed here: http://www.salganalsol.com/foro/comments.php?DiscussionID=315&page=2#Item_9

A pitty that the chapters are not ordered chronologically in that web page! So as to better understand the overall story of NIPPUR.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 05, 2008, 01:13:57 am
Ok guys, any help on the original topic?
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: flyingmice on May 05, 2008, 01:19:11 am
removed
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Kyle Aaron on May 05, 2008, 01:20:06 am
The most common split for basic attributes is 4-10.

The simplest you could do it is "Brains" and "Brawn", mental and physical.

The most complex you could do it is to have strength, agility, health and intelligence, and split each of those into 4-10 other elements - upper body strength, grip strength, flexibility, quickness, co-ordination, and so on.

It really depends on what feel you want the game to have. There's no use having some statistic there if nobody ever rolls against it. So the more details on the character sheet the more details you'll need in the rules. If you have a lot of details people will believe the game is more "realistic", if you have less details people will tend to focus on what's happening at the game table rather than looking things up in books.

I think that rules-heavy, highly-detailed games systems are useful for inexperienced GMs. "I don't know... I'll look it up!" More experienced GMs have learned to judge things a bit more and can set the rules aside, or use lighter rules. It also depends on the group: some players will never trust the GM and want the backing of the rules, other players trust the GM even if the GM is obviously using no rules or adventure notes at all and just making everything up as they go :)
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Zulgyan on May 05, 2008, 01:39:53 am
The game is meant to be rules-light.

Basic Attribute Scores should be what's important for the characters in the Comic.

So far, my thoughts are (translation messes up terminology a bit):

Physique
Agility
Wisdom (very different conception from the one in D&D)

Another atribute I'm considering as basic is Leadership.

I choose this because it reflex what's important for a protagonist in the comic.

I need more games! :D
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Claudius on May 05, 2008, 10:20:44 am
Quote from: Zulgyan
So, D&D (mi favorite game) uses:

STRENGTH
INTELLIGENCE
WISDOM
CONSTITUTION
DEXTERITY
CHARISMA

I'm creating an RPG of my own based on the Argentinean comic NIPPUR de LAGASH*, and I want to see many different approaches to the basic attribute scores.
You can help me by posting how is this is done in different games you know. We can discuss about it too.

Thanks beforehand,

Z.


* NIPPUR DE LAGASH (Nippur from Lagash) was a comic that boomed in the 70s in Argentina. I tells the stories of a wandering Sumerian warrior in the ancient world.

Off topic: That comic looks cool! It reminds me of an Argentinian comic that I loved, Álvar Mayor, it rocks!! Thank you Aos, for the link!

On topic: It depends. As you surely know, there are tons of RPGs, and every RPG uses a different set of attributes. I would advise, based on my own preferences:

-To keep the quantity of attributes low. Although there are games with a lot of attributes that I like (such as Rolemaster), I like them in spite of it, not because of it. The less attributes, the better.

-To avoid dump attributes. I hate them. Make all attributes be equally important.

I don't like rules-light games, nor free ones (they often suck), but there is one exception you might find inspiration in: Barbarians of Lemuria. (http://www.geocities.com/barbariansoflemuria/). Take a look to this game, I think it can provide you with ideas for your game.

Y para acabar, bienvenido a therpgsite! :)
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: HinterWelt on May 05, 2008, 11:54:18 am
Personally, I have always felt the minimum brakdown is
Physical
Mental
Spiritual

For my games I refine it a bit more
Physical
   Strength
Dexterity
Agility
Constitution
Appearance

Mental
   Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma


Spiritual
   Luck
Piety
Will

Stat checks can cover just about anything.

Bill
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Premier on May 05, 2008, 11:59:40 am
Advice: don't be too hung up on the notion that Abilities (or Attributes or Traits or whatever) need to represent some physical or mental power you're born with. It might be generally true, but the nature and style of your game might dictate otherwise.

For instance, D6 Star Wars has an attribute called Mechanical, which is your affinity for driving, flying or otherwise controlling vehicles and their components (starship cannons, navigation computers). Strictly speaking, such skills would be a combination of reflexes and hand-eye cordination (physical abilities), quick thinking and the ability to learn using these devices (mental) and hands-on experience. Within the style of Star Wars space opera, however, it makes perfect sense to have it as a basic attribute - the conventions of the genre dictate that some people like Luke Skywalker are just "natural talents" at stuff like that even they hardly had formal training in the matter.

Or for a different example, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has Weapons Skill (for close combat) and Ballistic Skill (for ranged weapons) as stand-alone basic characteristics completely indendent of Agility, Strength or anything else. Again considerations about playing style.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: Haffrung on May 07, 2008, 09:56:00 pm
In my totally stripped-down game design, I have two characteristics:

Prowess
Vigour


Prowess is how good you are at doing whatever it is that you do choose as your abilities (fighting, learning, exploring, etc).
Vigour is how much you can keep doing stuff.

And since this particular game was meant to be a big-picture setup with politics and so forth, I also included a third characteristic:

Esteem

Esteem is how highly regarded you are for doing whatever it is you're good at.
Title: Basic Scores
Post by: jibbajibba on May 08, 2008, 08:22:57 pm
I have made games with just 3

Prowess - your physical stuff for combat etc but you could be big and bulky or lean and fast
Guile - your cunning and charisma
Lore - your knowledge and learning

Is my current favourite range

but loved the old FGU games with a bunch of Talents raning from -3 to +3 with stuff like Mechanical, Creative, Esthetic, etc (I think there were 8 ?) and then the actual stats which were the more usual Strength, Agility, Intelligence, etc (I think there were 8 of these too).