Say your favorite system were to do a line of settings, each roughly 128 pages and black and white art.

The line would be simply settings, designed around or for a certain game system, but not supplemented.

So basically a line of one-shot settings.

How would that do in today's marketplace?

Given Savage Worlds, that model would seem to work just fine... provided those settings are quality stuff.

My understanding is that settings as a whole are less profitable than most other RPG supplements. Most supplements are less profitable than core rules.

thats not to say you couldn't sell settings, just that you expectations shouldn't be to high.

Quote from: Mcrowthats not to say you couldn't sell settings, just that you expectations shouldn't be to high.

I figured that.  Would 1,000 copies of hardbound, black and white be too many?  Alternatively, how much would that cost?

What if they were POD?

Quote from: joewolzI figured that.  Would 1,000 copies of hardbound, black and white be too many?  Alternatively, how much would that cost?

What if they were POD?

Well, any small publisher would consider selling 500 copies of any book in one year, a good year. 1k would be risky, for a new publisher because you would like endup with ~700-800 copies sitting around collecting dust.

Now if you were to go with a moderately popular system, like pierce suggested, you will have a built in market. They isn't a ton of stuff out for SW and there seems to be good number of Fans. OTOH, you would have to pay a licensing fee and get approval. I have seen as high as $1500 for limited licenses for other systems, not sure what SW would cost.

As for printing:

A small publisher, should looks seriouly into POD printing if you plan to have print books.

Lulu would charge you ~$13 to print a 128 page Hardcover in B&W if you order 300 copies or $16 for a single copy.

now if you get that same book perfect bound each book costs ~$5 to print if 300 are ordered or $7 for a single copy.

Most of the time Hardcover through POD, is not going to be a good option, IMO.  Lulu also allows you to sell your books right off their site so you don't have to carry inventory if you don't want to.

you can go through other POD printers and get a cheeper price (about 1/2 to 1-3 less), but then you have to find be able to store the books yourself, and some have minimum orders. If you have to buy 300 books @ $10 a piece you would have $3k tied up in printing costs alone.

You could go with a traditional print run, but again they normally have a minimum order. They might require a 500 book minimim run, though your would pay less per book than POD printing.

PDF is good way to go aswell. Don't expect to make a lot of mony off of PDFs though, the market is still pretty young. Many small press guys sell less than 100 PDFs of a given product/ year. Still those 100 copies have a high profit rate. If you list a 128 page booke for $10 you will pocket ~$7, through RPG now. If you sell through your ownsite, its all profit minus the paypal feels and such.

Not that I'm expert or anything, I just plan publish a game or two and have been looking into it.

That's certainly what I was looking for Mike.  Thanks for the help, keep 'em coming folks!

Mike has the gist of it but here is my experience.

First, you need to determine your distribution plan. Are you going to sell them direct only? Through distro? If so, how are you going to get into distro? Fulfillment? Straight to distributors? Straight to retailers? A combo of all the above?

Alright, so you decide to go into distro. You can expect to (as an unproven, unknown, small publisher) sell 300-500 of a successful core rules or 100-300 of a supplement. Most likely, you are going through a fulfillment house and getting about 33% of MSRP. So, on a $20 128 B&W softcover source book you will get $6.60. Out of that you will need to pay shipping, say .40 per book dropping your gross to $6.20.  Now, you have editing, writing, art, and layout to consider as well as advertising. Now, most small press either get friends or themselves to do oneor more of that list. Now, you need to print the books. Well, if you use LULU (a bad idea in most situations) you will end up losing $7.80 if Mike's numbers are right.

Now, with every 3.00 that you raise the price you will increase your GP by $1.00 through distro. To make this work, you really need to grasp the cost of printing. You should be able to print a 128 page book as described for under $3...considerably under $3. Now, POD is good if you understand how to use it and understand that it is not POD but actually short runs when you use trad distro. You can get a 500 print run from companies like Patterson or Bang Printing for better than a POD. Remember what you pay for. With LULU, it is for their distro services as well as printing. That is great if it is part of your plan.

So, of that $6.20 one plan would be to shoot to break even. Then use the buzz and news generated through that chain to sell off your own site at a better margin. Another would be to target a print cost of at least 1/2 the GPM. This allows you room for expenses and builds in a reserve.

It can get even more complicated from here but I think I hit the big points.

Bill

Quote from: joewolzSay your favorite system were to do a line of settings, each roughly 128 pages and black and white art.

The line would be simply settings, designed around or for a certain game system, but not supplemented.

So basically a line of one-shot settings.

How would that do in today's marketplace?

I think the success might be tied to the system they are designed for. If it's a system that doesn't have that kind of support, or if you bring something new, like mechanical bits that make the system even more interesting and especially, if that system is popular enough... then it might be a success.

Two small settings that I found interesting enough to pick up were Centauri Knights and Uresia. They didn't rock my world as much as I hoped they would but I am a sucker for small settings. I have no idea if they were successful or not.

yeah, pod seems to only work well through direct sales. IPR seems to do pretty good with it though.

I don't see how "setting-only" books would be too far different from GURPS books like Rome, Greece, etc. (though to be fair, there WERE rules in them) , and they always seemed to sell pretty well.

Seeing as how I'm more of a "fluff" than "crunch" writer, I'd love to not have to mess with rules.

Quote from: WerekoalaI don't see how "setting-only" books would be too far different from GURPS books like Rome, Greece, etc. (though to be fair, there WERE rules in them) , and they always seemed to sell pretty well.

Seeing as how I'm more of a "fluff" than "crunch" writer, I'd love to not have to mess with rules.

you can't really compare GURPS to a small publisher though. GURPS is a very well known system from a very well known publisher.

Quote from: Mcrowyou can't really compare GURPS to a small publisher though. GURPS is a very well known system from a very well known publisher.

Since we're dealing in the hypothetical, what if it was a popular system with backing from a company?

Well, I was responding more to the "do you think non-system specific setting books would draw interest" rather than the financial aspect of it. IMO, yes, settings without systems would be fine, if they were interesting.

Quote from: joewolzSince we're dealing in the hypothetical, what if it was a popular system with backing from a company?

then it depends on market saturation. d20 is by far the most popular system, but its tuff to make money on it write now. Everything has been done.

Now SW or GURPS? There is plenty of space left for new settings.

Quote from: joewolzSo basically a line of one-shot settings.

How would that do in today's marketplace?

What's your intended market?  Who do you want to buy the book and why would they want to buy it?