This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists  (Read 11358 times)

Cloyer Bulse
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • ?
  • Posts: 83
  • BANNED
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #135 on: November 26, 2020, 05:19:54 AM »
Quote from: ”Greywolf76”
....Mussolini frequently denounced bourgeois nations as those "based on the plutocratic rule of the rich and that engaged in oppressive economic exploitation of other proletarian nations such Italy and Great Britain". He referred especially to the United Kingdom as "the fattest and most bourgeois nation in the world".
The “plutocratic rule of the rich” is what we would today call the “global elites” or the “deep state”. The British and French empires had indeed become corrupt. Prior to WWI, the British, French, Italians, and Russians had more or less carved up the world between them, such as Morocco to France, Egypt to Britain, Libya to Italy, the Balkans to Russia. The German Reich were the newcomers to the scene and they were a threat to the established World Order. WWI almost started multiple times, such as during the Moroccan crisis when Germany was trying to get a piece of the French pie.

Nazism and Fascism were essentially rebellions against the global elites who had reaffirmed their dominion after WWI. Primitive and violent by American standards, they were eventually to be crushed by the World Order, which carved up the world between the wealthy and decadent liberal democracies of the west and the brutal Communists of the east.

Quote from: ””Greywolf76”
Saying that Communists and Nazi-fascists are enemies just because they fought each other is silly.

They were enemies precisely because they were fighting the same enemy (Capitalism). If you've read Mein Kampf perhaps you will remember that he said the only genuine or acceptable manner of implementing real socialism was the Nazi manner.

The Nazis were nationalists, while the Communists were globalists, and that distinction is critical, more so than any other distinction. I know for example that the Estonians preferred the Nazis because they allowed them to fly their own flag, whereas the Soviets demanded that all nations fight under the Soviet flag. Nazi “socialism” was more about Hitler co-opting the businesses of Germany for the purpose of rebuilding the military. Businesses could refuse requests from the government, and they often did because they didn't want to take the risk. Nevertheless, Hitler discouraged small businesses and encouraged large businesses to form monopolies where possible. Nazi “socialism” wasn't really an ideology so much as a failure to understand economics. It is important to understand that Hitler did not have a comprehensive economic plan for Germany, at least not one that was coherent.


Quote from: ”Doc Sammy”
Atheism is cancer and Yahweh worship has a lot of major issues....

Atheism comes in two major flavors.

The first is more properly called Agnosticism, which is really a fancy word for “ignorant”. These are people who don't know what religion is. Often, they are adherents of Scientism, which is the notion that all reality is understandable through empirical thought. This has two major failures: The first is that there is no mechanism for protecting against human nature (this includes mental illness as well as willful psychopathy), which allows corruption to grow and metastasize like cancer; The second is that the human brain is not capable of understanding all the complexities of objective reality, which in some cases can be like a car mechanic trying to perform brain surgery using tools designed for carpentry -- knowledge applied to the wrong area using the wrong tools results in disaster. Religion uses holistic knowledge to craft a broad understanding of reality, even those aspects which we cannot currently grasp consciously, and ameliorates the natural flowering of neuroticism, which can devolve into full blown psychosis.

The second flavor of Atheism is more properly called Satanism. In this version, Christianity is actively hated, whether consciously or unconsciously, and such Atheists actively cultivate doctrines specifically designed as inversions or perversions of Christian values, such as “Gay marriage”, “transgenderism”, “critical theory”, and so on. The salient point is that there is an undercurrent of despite and envy. This is a manifestation of neuroticism.



Quote from: ”Doc Sammy”
....several good things and major positive contributions to the West have come from Christianity (Catholicism moreso than Protestant or Evangelical traditions) and this cannot be ignored...

“Protestantism” refers to thousands of denominations which are modernized and usually abridged offshoots of Catholicism.

Quote from: ”Doc Sammy”
....I believe that a lot of the more historic positive things brought by the Christian churches were largely thanks to pagan influence from the Greco-Roman and Germanic worlds that were refocused through a Christian lens and put in a Judeo-Christian context.

The philosophies of Plato and Aristotle were adopted by the founders of the Church as time went on...

Christianity (by which I mean Catholicism) subsumes Classical and tribal paganisms as well as the philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. It is more correct to think of Christianity as the current manifestation of an ongoing and evolving mode of thought. One of the major functions of religion is to store the lived experience of a culture in the form of myth and story, so Christianity is the totality of wisdom that we have collected since the beginning of civilization, whereas Classical paganism for example is only the totality of wisdom up to that point in time and excludes everything that we have learned since then. Jesus is a more informed version of the Hero archetype, earlier versions of which are Horus from Egyptian mythology and Marduk from Mesopotamian mythology.

One must be careful not to overly romanticize earlier manifestations of religion. The Oracle of Delphi for example was just a woman who got high sniffing volcanic gasses -- as a point of comparison, imagine world leaders today deciding on whether to go to war based on the ramblings of someone sniffing glue; better perhaps than election fraud, but today we have the capacity to do much better than that. In other words, at our worst we are no better than our younger selves, but at are best we are everything we were and then some.

Quote from: ”Greywolf76”
Christmas and Easter, however, are not adaptations of old pagan holidays....

Sure they are. Humans were celebrating the equinoxes and solstices tens of thousands of years ago. Probably hundreds of thousands of years ago. However, “evolution” is probably a better word than “adaption”, as our understanding of ourselves has become more sophisticated over time.

As individuals, our world view is periodically shattered when we fail at something, and then we have to restructure how we view our reality and reevaluate our goals. This is what “resurrection” means in mythology. It literally mirrors how our brains function on a biological level, and this is the reason that spring has such deep meaning to all humans, in addition to the practical agrarian reasons. Similarly, the winter solstice universally represents death and rebirth, not just physically, but also in terms of how our brains recover from catastrophic failures in life.

Jesus is the Hero that emerges to restore the balance between Order and Chaos, Known and Unknown, when things go wrong, both on a macro (world) level and on a micro (personal) level. Civilizations collapse into corruption and chaos, but also as individuals we can be devastated by depression and despair. Jesus is the Savior, a road map from the intolerable present to the desired future. This concept can be traced all the way back to ancient Mesopotamian religion where Marduk was elected by the gods to fight Tiamat and her monsters of chaos and destruction.

Manic Modron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • M
  • Posts: 416
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #136 on: November 26, 2020, 10:52:09 AM »
Quote from: ”Greywolf76”
Christmas and Easter, however, are not adaptations of old pagan holidays....

Sure they are.

Especially Christmas, which is straight up syncretizing Saturnalia and a few others here and there.  Easter... a little more fuzzy, and not just because of the rabbits, but that is a different thread.

Greywolf76

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #137 on: November 27, 2020, 10:26:37 AM »
Quote
(without fully adopting philosophical rationalism - that's why there has never been any philosophical traditions in Eastern Christian Churches such as we've seen in the West, like Thomism and Scholasticism).

That's most definitely untrue.
We have whole large swath of Christian neoplatonism based exactly in Greek.
It was definitely rationalistic philosophy - in traditional meaning of rationalism. I'd argue more than thomism because thomist thought balance between rationalism and empiricism - while platonic schools rarely dabble with latter. We have Eastern Aristotle adaptation by John of Damascus.

Antiphilosophical tendencies on East, are late Russian resentiment towards West, with disregard for own - or at least for Greek achievements.

Quote
   Although there was a small group interested in Thomistic thought in Constantinople in the 14th and 15th centuries, before the Ottoman conquest. And Thomas himself draws heavily on the Greek Fathers, especially St. John Damascene.


Not so small. There were plenty of Eastern philosophers who read and used Aquinas, including Palamas who is often shown by antiphilosophical Orthodox of current age as some straight opposition of Thomas.

Nope.

Although it's a fact that many Church Father's adopted Aristotle's "framework", they never accepted his metaphysics (or Plato's, for that matter). Much less Plotinus'.

I don't know your sources on the disputes between Saint Gregory Palamas and Barlaam, but Palamas and the hesychast monks actively opposed Tomist / Scholastic philosophy and its influence in the Eastern Orthodox Church. In fact, that was his main dispute with Barlaam of Calabria, who advocated and defended the adoption of such ideas in the East. Palamas denounced Scholastic philosophy in three Synods held in Constantinople in 1341, 1344 and 1347 (these are known as the "Hesychast Synods", and some Orthodox Christians historians, such as John Romanides, regard the 1347 synod as the 10th Ecumenical Council).

I won't reproduce the full texts in here (they are too long and it would be a huge disservice to summarize them), but if you're interested:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/hierotheos_difference.aspx  -> Explains why Western philosophy is simply not compatible to Eastern Christian theology and has never been adopted. Also mentions the disputes between St. Gregory and Barlaam.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/hellenistic_thought.aspx -> Explains the relationship between Hellenistic philosophy and the theology of Greek Fathers

Also, the confusion between Eastern Christian doctrine and neo-platonism seems very common in American Calvinist (and Protestant, in general) circles since Douglas Jones published his article in Credenda Agenda years ago. This articles helps to elucidate this confusion:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/thema_response.aspx


RandyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • R
  • Posts: 1218
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #138 on: November 27, 2020, 11:04:49 AM »
Quote
(without fully adopting philosophical rationalism - that's why there has never been any philosophical traditions in Eastern Christian Churches such as we've seen in the West, like Thomism and Scholasticism).

That's most definitely untrue.
We have whole large swath of Christian neoplatonism based exactly in Greek.
It was definitely rationalistic philosophy - in traditional meaning of rationalism. I'd argue more than thomism because thomist thought balance between rationalism and empiricism - while platonic schools rarely dabble with latter. We have Eastern Aristotle adaptation by John of Damascus.

Antiphilosophical tendencies on East, are late Russian resentiment towards West, with disregard for own - or at least for Greek achievements.

Quote
   Although there was a small group interested in Thomistic thought in Constantinople in the 14th and 15th centuries, before the Ottoman conquest. And Thomas himself draws heavily on the Greek Fathers, especially St. John Damascene.


Not so small. There were plenty of Eastern philosophers who read and used Aquinas, including Palamas who is often shown by antiphilosophical Orthodox of current age as some straight opposition of Thomas.

Nope.

Although it's a fact that many Church Father's adopted Aristotle's "framework", they never accepted his metaphysics (or Plato's, for that matter). Much less Plotinus'.

I don't know your sources on the disputes between Saint Gregory Palamas and Barlaam, but Palamas and the hesychast monks actively opposed Tomist / Scholastic philosophy and its influence in the Eastern Orthodox Church. In fact, that was his main dispute with Barlaam of Calabria, who advocated and defended the adoption of such ideas in the East. Palamas denounced Scholastic philosophy in three Synods held in Constantinople in 1341, 1344 and 1347 (these are known as the "Hesychast Synods", and some Orthodox Christians historians, such as John Romanides, regard the 1347 synod as the 10th Ecumenical Council).

I won't reproduce the full texts in here (they are too long and it would be a huge disservice to summarize them), but if you're interested:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/hierotheos_difference.aspx  -> Explains why Western philosophy is simply not compatible to Eastern Christian theology and has never been adopted. Also mentions the disputes between St. Gregory and Barlaam.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/hellenistic_thought.aspx -> Explains the relationship between Hellenistic philosophy and the theology of Greek Fathers

Also, the confusion between Eastern Christian doctrine and neo-platonism seems very common in American Calvinist (and Protestant, in general) circles since Douglas Jones published his article in Credenda Agenda years ago. This articles helps to elucidate this confusion:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/thema_response.aspx



That last is because Protestants dismiss Aristotle out of hand in order to dismiss Roman Catholic theology, Thomism especially. So they try to "discover" a neo-platonism that is compatible with Christianity, and always trip over the Gnosticism inherent in Plato where they don't embrace it outright, because ends and means.

Greywolf76

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #139 on: November 27, 2020, 12:16:03 PM »
Quote from: ”Greywolf76”
Christmas and Easter, however, are not adaptations of old pagan holidays....

Sure they are.

Especially Christmas, which is straight up syncretizing Saturnalia and a few others here and there.  Easter... a little more fuzzy, and not just because of the rabbits, but that is a different thread.

Holy shit, man. C'mon. Nobody believes those crazy theories anymore.

Besides, they were invented by Protestant theologian and author Paul Ernst Jablonsky in the 18th century without any historical basis just to dis on Roman Catholics.

Re-read what I've written:

Christmas and Easter, however, are not adaptations of old pagan holidays. There might be some influence in some minor aspects of Christmas, for certain (trading gifts probably comes from Saturnalia), but the Nativity was celebrated from at last 200 AD (according to Clement of Alexandria) and the date of December 25th comes, in fact, from an earlier Christian Holiday, Annunciation (celebrated in March 25th - if you count nine months from March 25th you'll get December 25th) which was itself known in the Christian East since the 2nd Century AD.

In short, the date of Christmas comes from the date of the Feast of thr Annunciation which, in turn, was determined based on the equivalent date in the Julian Calendar of Nissan 25th of the year 33 AD.

The same with Easter. The Western name probably comes from an Old Teutonic word ("Estre") mentioned by Saint Bede in his De temporum ratione, which was written in the 8th Century AD, many centuries after the establishing of the feast.

Eastern Christians, however, refer to the feast by its Greek name ("Pascha", which gave birth to the feast's name in many other modern languages and comes from Hebrew Pesach). Christians have been celebrating Pascha since the 1st century.

The date of Pascha varies accordingly to astronomical phenomena, not calendars, because in the early centuries Christians used different calendars (Jewish, Greek, Egyptian, Julian and Old Armenian, to mention just a few). Thus, to ensure that everyone celebrate on the same date, the feast would be determined by astronomical calculations provided by the Patriarchate of Alexandria.

If anything, Christian Easter has its roots Jewish Passover.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 12:18:25 PM by Greywolf76 »

Manic Modron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • M
  • Posts: 416
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #140 on: November 27, 2020, 05:27:03 PM »
Quote from: ”Greywolf76”
Christmas and Easter, however, are not adaptations of old pagan holidays....

Sure they are.

Especially Christmas, which is straight up syncretizing Saturnalia and a few others here and there.  Easter... a little more fuzzy, and not just because of the rabbits, but that is a different thread.

Holy shit, man. C'mon. Nobody believes those crazy theories anymore.

Not Easter so much, because Bede and Jablonski didn't have any good sources and Jablonski definitely wanted to say that Catholics were a super seeecrit Babylonian cult or something ridiculous.  No matter what that image that comes around on Facebook every year says, it isn't a mysterious set of Ishtar rituals.

But yeah, people do believe that ancient Christians pulled holiday traditions from other religious because they did.  It doesn't make those holidays secretly pagan or evil or less Christian or anything.  It just means that people did what people always do and took on traits of their neighbors sometimes.

Christmas and Easter are fun.  They have bits that were taken from non-Christian sources.  They are still Christian holidays and none of the backstory of outside inspiration or outright adoption changes that.  I don't understand either the need to deny it when it happens or the need to use it as if it delegitimizes the whole thing.



Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2020, 11:01:49 AM »
If you want to have fun with Protestants, remind them that both Martin Luther and Philip of Melanchthon actively suppressed the writings of Kepler and Copernicus while the Jesuits were looking the data over and nodding reluctantly.

I can't say Jesuits are sane nowadays thanks to the SJW infection and the damage the Catholic Church has suffered (some self-inflicted), but Jesuits used to be very pro-science because the theory was that understanding the universe led to a greater understanding of God -- which is an interesting way to look at it but hey, if it works...

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #142 on: November 29, 2020, 07:57:48 PM »
If you want to have fun with Protestants, remind them that both Martin Luther and Philip of Melanchthon actively suppressed the writings of Kepler and Copernicus while the Jesuits were looking the data over and nodding reluctantly.

I can't say Jesuits are sane nowadays thanks to the SJW infection and the damage the Catholic Church has suffered (some self-inflicted), but Jesuits used to be very pro-science because the theory was that understanding the universe led to a greater understanding of God -- which is an interesting way to look at it but hey, if it works...

Martin Luther died in 1546 and Johannes Kepler was born in 1571, so honestly that is a damn good trick to suppress someone not even born for 35 years after you died.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

EOTB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1189
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #143 on: November 29, 2020, 08:11:25 PM »
He was voting for Kepler’s opponent
A framework for generating local politics

https://mewe.com/join/osric A MeWe OSRIC group - find an online game; share a monster, class, or spell; give input on what you'd like for new OSRIC products.  Just don't 1) talk religion/politics, or 2) be a Richard

moonsweeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 944
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #144 on: November 29, 2020, 09:26:14 PM »
He was voting for Kepler’s opponent

I must remember not to read forums while eating soup.

You owe me a new keyboard...
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #145 on: November 29, 2020, 09:32:59 PM »
Bitch bitch bitch.

Evidently it was the heliocentric theory in general that was heavily refused by Luther and Philip, prior to Kepler and Copernicus's outstanding work on it. Copernicus's seminal work On The Revolution of the Celestial Orbs had a preface written by Andreas Osiander, because Copernicus knew it'd piss off the Protestants. Kepler also found himself fending off Protestant ire at his writings.

Meanwhile, the Jesuits were more than happy to gather the data and examine it, and later Galileo only got in trouble due to (a) Medici-Borgia political struggles, and (b) you can't call the Pope a dimwit in print, no matter how carefully you polish it.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #146 on: November 29, 2020, 09:56:25 PM »
So wikipedia says "Philipp Melanchthon, a close theological ally of Martin Luther, had arranged for Rheticus to visit several astronomers and study with them. Rheticus became Copernicus's pupil, staying with him for two years and writing a book, Narratio prima (First Account), outlining the essence of Copernicus's theory"

That does not really sound to me like Melanchthon actively suppressing the writing of Copernicus.  The opposite really.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

consolcwby

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Feel the despair!
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #147 on: November 30, 2020, 01:53:43 AM »
So wikipedia says "Philipp Melanchthon, a close theological ally of Martin Luther, had arranged for Rheticus to visit several astronomers and study with them. Rheticus became Copernicus's pupil, staying with him for two years and writing a book, Narratio prima (First Account), outlining the essence of Copernicus's theory"

That does not really sound to me like Melanchthon actively suppressing the writing of Copernicus.  The opposite really.
Shush. PBS and liberal professors who write history books never go into such details like facts! Let him hate protestants or religious folks who don't follow the ways of men. Facts never enter into these kinds of things anyway. Take the History Channel approach and just say "You're wrong, because - ALIENS!"  :P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                  https://youtu.be/ShaxpuohBWs?si

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 5337
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #148 on: November 30, 2020, 06:48:17 AM »
So wikipedia says "Philipp Melanchthon, a close theological ally of Martin Luther, had arranged for Rheticus to visit several astronomers and study with them. Rheticus became Copernicus's pupil, staying with him for two years and writing a book, Narratio prima (First Account), outlining the essence of Copernicus's theory"

That does not really sound to me like Melanchthon actively suppressing the writing of Copernicus.  The opposite really.
Shush. PBS and liberal professors who write history books never go into such details like facts! Let him hate protestants or religious folks who don't follow the ways of men. Facts never enter into these kinds of things anyway. Take the History Channel approach and just say "You're wrong, because - ALIENS!"  :P
Facts never enter into these kinds of things anyway. Take the theRPGsite approach and just say "You're wrong, because - MARXISTS!

Sounds pretty fucking stupid, doesn't it?

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Yes, SJWs ARE Fascists
« Reply #149 on: November 30, 2020, 08:32:39 AM »
So wikipedia says "Philipp Melanchthon, a close theological ally of Martin Luther, had arranged for Rheticus to visit several astronomers and study with them. Rheticus became Copernicus's pupil, staying with him for two years and writing a book, Narratio prima (First Account), outlining the essence of Copernicus's theory"

That does not really sound to me like Melanchthon actively suppressing the writing of Copernicus.  The opposite really.
Shush. PBS and liberal professors who write history books never go into such details like facts! Let him hate protestants or religious folks who don't follow the ways of men. Facts never enter into these kinds of things anyway. Take the History Channel approach and just say "You're wrong, because - ALIENS!"  :P
Actually, I don't hate Protestants any more than I hate anyone else. I just like to tweak noses :)