This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: When they say they want genocide believe them  (Read 4239 times)

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9962
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2021, 01:56:41 PM »
I would suggest everyone read up on Alger Hiss and how the left defended him for decades. How Whittaker Chambers was attacked, discredited and ignored by the same people. How Alger Hiss was factually proven to be a Russian agent when he was with the state department, despite a lifetime of protestations otherwise.

The state department specifically was chock full of communists. It was very popular to be a communist amongst young intellectuals in the 1920's. That's where Alger Hiss got hooked.

 Look at all of the bizarre deals we made with the Russians. We forced Great Britain to pay in gold specie when the Russians were allowed to pay with credit. We stood by and pretty much agreed to every demand of the Russians at Yalta and other conferences. The Russians got the nuke well ahead of schedule because of ideological sympathizers.
 
America had Russian communist sympathizers who were giving it away for free. We had next to zero good human intelligence coming out of Russia. The UK had the same problem. West Germany and Italy had the same issues post war. The west was full of people who worked for the USSR and most did it for ideology reasons.

This is based on the argument that McCarthy's only position was that there were a lot of communist sympathizers around in the West -- but McCarthy had tons of specific claims and accusations, almost none of which were proven. He made a ton of unproven and inconsistent claims.

McCarthy was *not* involved in the conviction of Hiss. McCarthy's crusade started months *after* the arrest, prosecution, and conviction of Hiss.

I would argue that McCarthy badly damaged the reputation of anti-communism, by his showmanship and bombastic public accusations. The more effective people for the anti-communist cause were those who did real investigation and revealed the horrors happening in communist countries, as well as those responsible for successful prosecution of Soviet agents.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3392
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2021, 03:29:43 PM »
I would suggest everyone read up on Alger Hiss and how the left defended him for decades. How Whittaker Chambers was attacked, discredited and ignored by the same people. How Alger Hiss was factually proven to be a Russian agent when he was with the state department, despite a lifetime of protestations otherwise.

The state department specifically was chock full of communists. It was very popular to be a communist amongst young intellectuals in the 1920's. That's where Alger Hiss got hooked.

 Look at all of the bizarre deals we made with the Russians. We forced Great Britain to pay in gold specie when the Russians were allowed to pay with credit. We stood by and pretty much agreed to every demand of the Russians at Yalta and other conferences. The Russians got the nuke well ahead of schedule because of ideological sympathizers.
 
America had Russian communist sympathizers who were giving it away for free. We had next to zero good human intelligence coming out of Russia. The UK had the same problem. West Germany and Italy had the same issues post war. The west was full of people who worked for the USSR and most did it for ideology reasons.

This is based on the argument that McCarthy's only position was that there were a lot of communist sympathizers around in the West -- but McCarthy had tons of specific claims and accusations, almost none of which were proven. He made a ton of unproven and inconsistent claims.

McCarthy was *not* involved in the conviction of Hiss. McCarthy's crusade started months *after* the arrest, prosecution, and conviction of Hiss.

I would argue that McCarthy badly damaged the reputation of anti-communism, by his showmanship and bombastic public accusations. The more effective people for the anti-communist cause were those who did real investigation and revealed the horrors happening in communist countries, as well as those responsible for successful prosecution of Soviet agents.
But were there Communists in the State Department?

Shrieking Banshee

  • Narcissist Undead
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2168
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2021, 06:45:04 PM »
I don't think in his dictator stage he cared about much else. And politics towards both economic and social issues was very fluid and without much regard for communist orthodoxy.
Well I feel like this is missing critical aspects of the man. True, he eliminated political rivals, but his personal musings reveal it came from a belief that counter-revolutionary sentiment to progressive ideas originated from the militrary based on the french revolution.
And I don't think they where very fluid at all. I can't read the guys mind of course, or know if his account of the events where lies. But it came off more to me as a 'Il make this as communist as possible right now, but if I can't il come back to it later'.

Things like 'Lets plant crops together in one spot because natural competition is a borgoius idea' speaks to a man willing to risk crop failure for the idea of communism.

Daztur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1360
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2021, 06:37:39 AM »
Now of course not every socialist was Soviet agent in fact Stalin-aligned communists in certain period waged internal persecution among Republican forces against anarchists and anti-Soviet less radical socialists (which as one could guess did not help Republican cause at all).

Communists became increasingly influential on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War vis-à-vis both moderates and anarchists because to fight a war you need weapons and with France etc. not allowing arms exports to the Republicans and the fascists providing a lot of aid to the Nationalists. This made the Republicans increasingly dependent on Russian arms and it gave the Spanish communists enormous influence as the main conduit of arms imports.

Ironically, during the Spanish Civil War, the Spanish communists were mostly pushing for moderate policy. Not because of communist ideology but because of Stalin's foreign policy concerns which, at the time included a "united front" policy against fascism because he was scared of Hitler. This was an about-face from Stalin's earlier policy of doing everything he could to undermine Western social democrats ("social fascists") and not taking the fascism seriously.

If the French and British hadn't been so insistent in shooting their own feet off and let the Republicans purchase arms freely then the Spanish communists would've been far less influential during the Civil War.
“I had promised myself to kill one Fascist – after all, if each of us killed one they would soon be extinct."
-George Orwell

Redwanderer

  • BANNED
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • ?
  • Posts: 58
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2022, 04:24:51 PM »
So why ain't the media complaining about BLM hate speech if this is true?

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3981
Re: When they say they want genocide believe them
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2022, 04:46:55 PM »
So why ain't the media complaining about BLM hate speech if this is true?

So why aint the media complaining about BLM hate speech?

That sure is a mystery.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus