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Author Topic: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?  (Read 10514 times)

jhkim

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2022, 08:58:09 PM »
Here in Korea things have gone pretty well. Less than 10% of Uruguay's death rate, have gotten off lighter than almost anywhere else economically, no lockdowns, few anti-vax morons, much less Zoom class for the kiddies than elsewhere, etc. etc. Starting to prep for stuff back in January 2020 and then really getting things in gear in February 2020 while most everyone else was standing around with their thumbs up their butts for weeks and weeks after things were already pretty well organized here really helped a lot. The government learned from the faceplant the previous epically incompetent administration did in terms of its MERS response in 2015 and was relatively on the ball, at least compared to all of the clownshoes shit elsewhere as there was still a good bit of bumbling...
Korea handled covid better than a lot of places. But then a habit of wearing masks when sick helped.

There are a lot of possible reasons for South Korea's success - ranging from government action, general population behavior, to masks, to possible genetic or prior disease exposure. It's hard to tell, because many things are correlated. ​

I was in South Korea in Jan and Feb of 2020 for business, and I got to experience their handling. During the course of my second trip in February, I was getting my temperature checked daily as I went into the office, and as I went into my hotel. Masks were everywhere. The subway stations were plastered all over with flyers and posters informing people. People were already avoiding crowds. I met my cousin just before I left, and the normally-crowded district was quite subdued - well before any government mandate. I even got my temperature checked to get on the plane home.

When I flew back to the U.S., I walked straight through customs just checking in at an automated machine. There were no checks or questions, and no announcement about covid. It would be many weeks before any concerted action.

I am inclined to think that all the precautions and organization did have an impact, though it's not clear which helped the most.

Pat

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2022, 09:03:58 PM »
And I bet you think the vax is useless too.
There are multiple vaxxes, not just one. Are you using the singular because it's an an object of religious faith to you?

Iä! Iä! Vaccine fhtagn!
That explains a lot.

Daztur

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2022, 09:36:20 PM »
Here in Korea things have gone pretty well. Less than 10% of Uruguay's death rate, have gotten off lighter than almost anywhere else economically, no lockdowns, few anti-vax morons, much less Zoom class for the kiddies than elsewhere, etc. etc. Starting to prep for stuff back in January 2020 and then really getting things in gear in February 2020 while most everyone else was standing around with their thumbs up their butts for weeks and weeks after things were already pretty well organized here really helped a lot. The government learned from the faceplant the previous epically incompetent administration did in terms of its MERS response in 2015 and was relatively on the ball, at least compared to all of the clownshoes shit elsewhere as there was still a good bit of bumbling...
Korea handled covid better than a lot of places. But then a habit of wearing masks when sick helped.

There are a lot of possible reasons for South Korea's success - ranging from government action, general population behavior, to masks, to possible genetic or prior disease exposure. It's hard to tell, because many things are correlated. ​

I was in South Korea in Jan and Feb of 2020 for business, and I got to experience their handling. During the course of my second trip in February, I was getting my temperature checked daily as I went into the office, and as I went into my hotel. Masks were everywhere. The subway stations were plastered all over with flyers and posters informing people. People were already avoiding crowds. I met my cousin just before I left, and the normally-crowded district was quite subdued - well before any government mandate. I even got my temperature checked to get on the plane home.

When I flew back to the U.S., I walked straight through customs just checking in at an automated machine. There were no checks or questions, and no announcement about covid. It would be many weeks before any concerted action.

I am inclined to think that all the precautions and organization did have an impact, though it's not clear which helped the most.

For masks specifically I think the best argument is Japan. While Korea was on top of things, Japan was really slow and incompetent in its reaponse. The only thing Japan did better than Korea was to gets its hand on good vaccines faster while for a while earlier this year Korea only had a trickle of the relatively crappy astrazeneca vaccines (which has caused problems recently until most everyone here got pfizer booster shots).

However, even before the vaccines Japan's death rate was only marginally higher than Korea's. If Japan's response was so lax why did so few people die there? Can't think of any good explanation besides widespread use of masks, especially masks at least marginally better than shitty cloth masks widely used elsewhere.

Masks don't even have to do much at the individual level to have a huge effect at a population level.

For example if the average unmasked sick person gives the virus to 1.2 people and the average masked person gives it to 1.0 people that's only a very small difference in how much a mask helps you individually but causes absolutely enormous differences on the population level due to how exponential growth works.
 

Pat

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #123 on: January 17, 2022, 10:12:44 PM »
However, even before the vaccines Japan's death rate was only marginally higher than Korea's. If Japan's response was so lax why did so few people die there? Can't think of any good explanation besides widespread use of masks, especially masks at least marginally better than shitty cloth masks widely used elsewhere.
Cross-immunity from previous exposure to earlier coronavirus strains is one theory.

3catcircus

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #124 on: January 18, 2022, 10:31:55 AM »
Here in Korea things have gone pretty well. Less than 10% of Uruguay's death rate, have gotten off lighter than almost anywhere else economically, no lockdowns, few anti-vax morons, much less Zoom class for the kiddies than elsewhere, etc. etc. Starting to prep for stuff back in January 2020 and then really getting things in gear in February 2020 while most everyone else was standing around with their thumbs up their butts for weeks and weeks after things were already pretty well organized here really helped a lot. The government learned from the faceplant the previous epically incompetent administration did in terms of its MERS response in 2015 and was relatively on the ball, at least compared to all of the clownshoes shit elsewhere as there was still a good bit of bumbling...
Korea handled covid better than a lot of places. But then a habit of wearing masks when sick helped.

There are a lot of possible reasons for South Korea's success - ranging from government action, general population behavior, to masks, to possible genetic or prior disease exposure. It's hard to tell, because many things are correlated. ​

I was in South Korea in Jan and Feb of 2020 for business, and I got to experience their handling. During the course of my second trip in February, I was getting my temperature checked daily as I went into the office, and as I went into my hotel. Masks were everywhere. The subway stations were plastered all over with flyers and posters informing people. People were already avoiding crowds. I met my cousin just before I left, and the normally-crowded district was quite subdued - well before any government mandate. I even got my temperature checked to get on the plane home.

When I flew back to the U.S., I walked straight through customs just checking in at an automated machine. There were no checks or questions, and no announcement about covid. It would be many weeks before any concerted action.

I am inclined to think that all the precautions and organization did have an impact, though it's not clear which helped the most.

For masks specifically I think the best argument is Japan. While Korea was on top of things, Japan was really slow and incompetent in its reaponse. The only thing Japan did better than Korea was to gets its hand on good vaccines faster while for a while earlier this year Korea only had a trickle of the relatively crappy astrazeneca vaccines (which has caused problems recently until most everyone here got pfizer booster shots).

However, even before the vaccines Japan's death rate was only marginally higher than Korea's. If Japan's response was so lax why did so few people die there? Can't think of any good explanation besides widespread use of masks, especially masks at least marginally better than shitty cloth masks widely used elsewhere.

Masks don't even have to do much at the individual level to have a huge effect at a population level.

For example if the average unmasked sick person gives the virus to 1.2 people and the average masked person gives it to 1.0 people that's only a very small difference in how much a mask helps you individually but causes absolutely enormous differences on the population level due to how exponential growth works.

The subtle biggest factors in Japan?

1. They're not testing everyone unless they're symptomatic.
2. They have a lot fewer fat people than the US.

DocJones

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #125 on: January 22, 2022, 08:06:13 PM »
And I bet you think the vax is useless too.
I would take the traditional vaccine, Sinovac, if it was available here.
Who better to design a vax than the designers of the virus. ;-)

TNMalt

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #126 on: January 22, 2022, 11:19:01 PM »
Sinovac provides much less protection against symptomatic infection, but still provides good protection against hospitalization.

Redwanderer

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Re: Anyone here ever seriously consider moving or move out the the USA?
« Reply #127 on: February 01, 2022, 03:30:19 PM »
Looking at how the 92% in America keeps running away from the 8% and sucking up to people who hate them and want to destroy them, Ireland is looking better all the time.

Éirinn go Brách!   :)