When the Forgotten Realms went SJW; Gen Con Candlekeep meetup 2015

[Alzrius]

About two years ago I started going to the Candlekeep meetups at Gen Con. For those who don't know, this is a fan-event that grew out of the Candlekeep online community. Despite not being official, it virtually always draws game designers and authors who have Realms works to their name. There's also some surprisingly good swag given away, such as in-depth coverage of otherwise-ignored areas of the game world, special pins for attendees, etc.

Each year, the meetup is based around a particular theme. For 2015, the theme was "Women of the Realms." Looking at that, I thought we'd be talking about notable female characters in the game world, such as the Seven Sisters, Catti-Brie, Scyulla Darkhope, etc.

Instead, what we were talking about was how women are being oppressed in fantasy fandom (including the Realms, apparently) and what needs to be done about that.

I'm not sure who among the Candlekeep meetup organizers decided that this was the way to go this year - I don't usually visit their forums - but Brian Cortijo was the person moderating the meetup, and for the two-and-a-half hours that the event lasted, he was going full McIntosh. It was surreal, but he essentially read from the SJW playbook the entire time. For a sampling:

• He announced that there were only female members on this year's Q&A panel (those being Erin M. Evans and one other novelist whom I can't recall) because "sometimes the best thing we men can do to help women is shut up and listen." (The male designers and authors were in the crowd with everyone else.)
• Before things got started, he announced that there would be no video recording of the panel (and possibly no audio recording, I'm not sure) because he wanted this to be a "safe space" for women.
• In accordance with that, he made it clear that anyone who said anything that was misogynist or sexist against women would immediately be thrown out - no warnings, no discussion about if it was actually offensive or not, just immediately ejected. At the end of the meetup he then unironically thanked everyone for having such a good group discussion.
• At one point, he asked how many people wanted to see a new FR-focused webcomic. When the applause died down, he asked how many people wanted to see it be based around women characters. That earned another round of applause. Then he asked how many people also wanted it to be drawn and made by women. I was wondering why that mattered, but again, it draw applause from the crowd.

This pretty well set the tone for the evening, as we covered topics ranging from "the first round of cover art for novels tends to make the women look like sex objects" to "you can tell how sexist someone is by how many female authors are on their bookshelf."

At one point, one of the female attendees did bring up the fact that, if she were a writer, she'd want her work judged based on the quality of the work itself, rather than just because she's a woman. Amazingly, she wasn't thrown out right there, though a lot of dissenting opinions were immediately voiced about how women need to be encouraged to enter fantasy, and men need to help them do so.

Needless to say, the entire thing was...I suppose "bizarre" is the best word I can use. Hopefully the 2016 meetup will feature fewer members of the Regressive Left running the show.

[S'mon]

At least the Red Guards didn't haul Ed Greenwood on stage for a session of Public Self-Criticism...

Seriously though, this SJW hysteria is getting worse every day. There is a lot of healthy pushback, but their grip on the mass media is almost ironclad - the London Evening Standard yesterday had most of the 2nd editorial page taken up by self-described SJW Richard Godwin lambasting counter-revolutionary elements - Return of Kings, the MRA, (non-SJW) men in general... I took some comfort from the adage attributed to Gandhi:
'First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win.'

[Chainsaw]

I don't care about FR, but I feel bad for you man. Sucks to see that virus infect something you enjoy.

[Snowman0147]

Only thing I can say is that you got fuck.  Not to mention that guy did go nuts on this shit.  Oh I got these other points.

I would like to point that telling people to shut up is a "great" way to have them listen to you.  I am sure that won't leave any negative after effects and feelings at all.

By safe space he clearly mean safe from criticism.  Last thing SJWs need is people pointing out your flaws in your argument.  If that happens, then your force to think and we can't have that now can we?

Thank you sheeple for listening my threats to silence you and making you fearful of my power which I have none.  Sheeple just think I do even though they have the real power.

I am going to split up the last point in three parts.  Oh yes!  More shit stories, art, and lack of talent that we should be happy cause the creator is a woman.  If anyone says other wise he is a sexist, or internalizing misogyny.  Shame on them.  This expectation isn't sexist at all.

Part 2.  OMG!  A women that wants to be judge base on the merits of her work instead of her vagina?  She is clearly troubled and we must send her to the right path in life.  She needs help.

Part 3.  In all seriousness and not being sarcastic I do wish that woman the best.  We need more women that want to be judge for their work instead on some SJW belief system.  So yes I wish her the best because it sounds like she is the adult in the room.

[Akrasia]

...Return of Kings, the MRA...'

Well, one certainly doesn't need to be a SJW to think that these 'movements' are both ridiculous (e.g., the petulant outrage expressed over last year's Mad Max: Fury Road film) and misogynistic.

[ZWEIHÄNDER]

Whenever a topic turns toward women in gaming, folks are instantly triggered and toss around the SJW acronym, as if there is some sort of grand conspiracy to oust men from the hobby. And then, it's categorized as "hysteria", which is ignorant of the word's repressively sexist origins.

Look: I don't have a lot of skin in the game here. I'm a male writer, and everyone working with Grim & Perilous Studios are men. But I do recognize there's been a long-standing tradition of using women as props in role-playing games, while silently ignoring their contribution to the hobby. Acknowledging there is a problem is the first step towards resolving the issue. Open, critical discussion around that specific topic is healthy.

It's time we not only recognize but also support women gamers, without giving them special treatment. They simply need equal treatment. And frankly, I am glad these discussions are happening in a live public forum.

[Akrasia]

It's time we not only recognize but also support women gamers, without giving them special treatment. They simply need equal treatment. And frankly, I am glad these discussions are happening in a live public forum.

Spot on.

[Alzrius]

Well, one certainly doesn't need to be a SJW to think that these 'movements' are both ridiculous (e.g., the petulant outrage expressed over last year's Mad Max: Fury Road film) and misogynistic.

Here's the thing though, the "outrage" about Fury Road was one article on the Return of Kings website (which to my understanding is a PUA website, not an MRA one, for whatever that's worth), and except for a couple of comments in support of that article on minor blogs, youtube channels, and twitter, that was it.

And yet the internet acted like there was an organized boycott of the movie by misogynists. In response to one article on a website that most people never heard of, there were multiple articles in high-traffic websites such as Wired and The Independent that lambasted a "movement" that never existed. They were tilting at windmills and insisting that they were giants.

One doesn't need to be an SJW to dislike misogyny - I've never gone to the Return of Kings website, and I doubt I ever will - but the SJW response to that particular tempest in a teapot is pretty well emblematic of how they tend to view the topic.

(Ironically, nobody seemed to mention how Feminist Frequency also disliked Fury Road for being anti-feminist).

[Akrasia]

...the SJW response to that particular tempest in a teapot is pretty well emblematic of how they tend to view the topic...

I don't know which is sadder: SJWs finding oppression everywhere (even in the Forgotten Realms), or anti-SJWs finding SJW oppression everywhere (even in a marginal comment in a forum post).

[Alzrius]

I don't know which is sadder: SJWs finding oppression everywhere (even in the Forgotten Realms), or anti-SJWs finding SJW oppression everywhere (even in a marginal comment in a forum post).

This is a false equivalency. Pointing out that one group sees oppression everywhere does not mean that you're therefore seeing that group committing oppression everywhere.

Your example (e.g. Fury Road) was a bad one; don't shoot the messenger for my having pointed that out.

[Simlasa]

It's time we not only recognize but also support women gamers, without giving them special treatment. They simply need equal treatment. And frankly, I am glad these discussions are happening in a live public forum.

Sure, but this FR meetup just sounds weird AND sexist... not an open or productive approach to the matter.

[Shipyard Locked]

Sure, but this FR meetup just sounds weird AND sexist... not an open or productive approach to the matter.

They recruit for their own opposition with each affront to rational discourse.

[Opaopajr]

This sounds disappointing for a meet-up. Was this a mandatory seminar? I would have rathered play games with the forum people or shoot the shit than feel obliged to attend a presentation. I doubt you'd normally get much real world face time so it seems like a strange way to use the opportunity.

[S'mon]

Well, one certainly doesn't need to be a SJW to think that these 'movements' are both ridiculous (e.g., the petulant outrage expressed over last year's Mad Max: Fury Road film) and misogynistic.

Many MRAs are indeed dicks. Others, like Karen Straughan, are lovely.

[S'mon]

And then, it's categorized as "hysteria", which is ignorant of the word's repressively sexist origins.