When the Forgotten Realms went SJW; Gen Con Candlekeep meetup 2015

[Christopher Brady]

At one point, one of the female attendees did bring up the fact that, if she were a writer, she'd want her work judged based on the quality of the work itself, rather than just because she's a woman. Amazingly, she wasn't thrown out right there, though a lot of dissenting opinions were immediately voiced about how women need to be encouraged to enter fantasy, and men need to help them do so.

Here's the really weird part in all this.  There have always been more women fantasy writers than men.

It's time we not only recognize but also support women gamers, without giving them special treatment. They simply need equal treatment. And frankly, I am glad these discussions are happening in a live public forum.

But that's not what the Social Justice Whiners are wanting, they want a superiour status over all others.  This whole thing is a dominance game, where one side tries to get as many concessions and the other side to back down as hard as possible.

[S'mon]

Here's the thing though, the "outrage" about Fury Road was one article on the Return of Kings website (which to my understanding is a PUA website, not an MRA one, for whatever that's worth)

Yeah, but despite past differences the MRAs and the PUAs are now in talks to form an Alliance of Evil to take over the world!!
(Evil MRA Karen Straughan interviewing Satanic 'Return of Kings' PUA Roosh)

[Spinachcat]

• Before things got started, he announced that there would be no video recording of the panel (and possibly no audio recording, I'm not sure) because he wanted this to be a "safe space" for women.

Nothing says "I respect women" like cutting off the chance for female gamers to hear what women writers on the FR panel may have discussed.

Also, let us thank the Goddess that a man stood up and set the rules for how a female author panel would be conducted. I guess vaginas lack the organizing talent provided by a penis.

And I loved the part where women need to men's help to get into fantasy. Poor wittle girls! Can't read books and get inspired like us men folk! Women must feel so oppressed by the fact the multi-billion dollar success of fantasy franchises like the Twilight series, the Lestat series, and Harry Potter series were written by men! So sad!

BTW, who is this dickless shitstain who ran this Meetup? Is he a WotC employee? FR author? Unemployed basement dweller?

[Warboss Squee]

Here's the really weird part in all this.  There have always been more women fantasy writers than men.

And editors, publishers...you know, modern literature in general is more than well represented by women in general.

[Christopher Brady]

And editors, publishers...you know, modern literature in general is more than well represented by women in general.

Really?  This I didn't know.  I just know that the numbers of female fantasy writers outnumber the male ones by a significant margin.

[crkrueger]

Nothing says "I respect women" like cutting off the chance for female gamers to hear what women writers on the FR panel may have discussed.

Also, let us thank the Goddess that a man stood up and set the rules for how a female author panel would be conducted. I guess vaginas lack the organizing talent provided by a penis.

And I loved the part where women need to men's help to get into fantasy. Poor wittle girls! Can't read books and get inspired like us men folk! Women must feel so oppressed by the fact the multi-billion dollar success of fantasy franchises like the Twilight series, the Lestat series, and Harry Potter series were written by men! So sad!

BTW, who is this dickless shitstain who ran this Meetup? Is he a WotC employee? FR author? Unemployed basement dweller?

That's the sad and pathetically ironic part of it all.  White men "helping" the underprivileged who can't do things for themselves, and need protected safe spaces free of anything but 100% psychological support.  Just what we need, a generation of infantilized women game designers incapable of accepting criticism, crippled for life by the "help" of the privileged.  What women need isn't for men to shut up and let them talk unquestioned and without censure.  Women need men to treat them like they treat other men, ie, telling them they're awesome, or that they can go fuck themselves, depending on the worth and value of their words and ideas, not the shape of their peehole and the functioning of their mammary glands.

At least oppressed women can fight and take their rights back, making little princesses of them all is a much more pervasive, insidious, and damaging form of misogyny.

[Alzrius]

This sounds disappointing for a meet-up. Was this a mandatory seminar? I would have rathered play games with the forum people or shoot the shit than feel obliged to attend a presentation. I doubt you'd normally get much real world face time so it seems like a strange way to use the opportunity.

It was essentially a very informal panel - there was a table up front where the authors were talking and being asked questions, while the moderator ran things. It wasn't mandatory; this was just for Forgotten Realms enthusiasts (particularly from the Candlekeep forums) to get together and talk to some of the people who've worked on the Realms.

BTW, who is this dickless shitstain who ran this Meetup? Is he a WotC employee? FR author? Unemployed basement dweller?

The moderator for the meetup was Brian Cortijo (who's usually taken point for these gatherings). I'm not sure if he's the one making most of the decisions for the topics, or the logistics of these events, but he was the one running this one, and it was rather ironic how he set such a heavy-handed tone at the beginning of it.

Insofar as I know, he's not an author or a (former) WotC employee.

[Snowman0147]

Really?  This I didn't know.  I just know that the numbers of female fantasy writers outnumber the male ones by a significant margin.

I am not surprise at all.  More women read novels than men do.  It would make sense that women would take over the novel industry by natural growth and interest.  More power to these ladies.  I just wish the SJWs get out of the male dominated industries that men are naturally interested in.

[Warboss Squee]

I am not surprise at all.  More women read novels than men do.  It would make sense that women would take over the novel industry by natural growth and interest.  More power to these ladies.  I just wish the SJWs get out of the male dominated industries that men are naturally interested in.

From what I've been told by people in the industry, it's been female dominated since the 70's.   Which is why I laugh my ass off when someone makes a case for "more women in literature" because they clearly don't have a clue.

[S'mon]

The moderator for the meetup was Brian Cortijo

Sometimes people have quasi-religious epiphanies and become SJWS. I'm sure it's very liberating and empowering for them.

[Omega]

Here's the really weird part in all this.  There have always been more women fantasy writers than men.

Artists too. And fair amount of adult art is produced by, drum-roll please, women.

[Christopher Brady]

Artists too. And fair amount of adult art is produced by, drum-roll please, women.

It's little things like this that makes me wonder about this whole current 'Feminist' movement.  It's like someone, somewhere realized that if they pushed the right verbal buttons they can get concession and are keeping at it until the well is dry.

But that's just my perception.

[Snowman0147]

You might be right Christopher.  Then again we are talking about the same feminists that would defend Islam any time people get piss off at radical Islamic groups like ISIS who are known to murder women.  Pundit can tell you more of that horrible shit.

[Akrasia]

Your example (e.g. Fury Road) was a bad one; don't shoot the messenger for my having pointed that out.

As you pointed out yourself, these 'movements' and associated websites/blogs are themselves quite marginal (and thankfully so, IMO).  Perhaps you think that there was an 'overreaction' by the SJWs (which, surprisingly, now includes Wired magazine) to a post at one of these 'marginal' websites.  But I never claimed that SJWs were justified in that overreaction, or that the MRA or PUA communities were far-reaching, dominant social forces.  So nothing in your 'reply' to my example undermines my point that the MRA and PUA communities are ridiculous, misogynistic movements.

[Akrasia]

That's the sad and pathetically ironic part of it all.  White men "helping" the underprivileged who can't do things for themselves, and need protected safe spaces free of anything but 100% psychological support.  Just what we need, a generation of infantilized women game designers incapable of accepting criticism, crippled for life by the "help" of the privileged.  What women need isn't for men to shut up and let them talk unquestioned and without censure.  Women need men to treat them like they treat other men, ie, telling them they're awesome, or that they can go fuck themselves, depending on the worth and value of their words and ideas, not the shape of their peehole and the functioning of their mammary glands.

At least oppressed women can fight and take their rights back, making little princesses of them all is a much more pervasive, insidious, and damaging form of misogyny.

This strikes me as broadly correct.

As a left-ish feminist liberal*, I find the reliance of SJWs on 'identity politics' and anti-liberal strategies ('safe spaces', 'trigger warnings', silencing, etc.) incredibly counter-productive.

I have no patience for people who are blind to, or gladly indulge in, the widespread racism, sexism, and heterosexism that permeates much of contemporary culture.  But I also have no patience for those who endorse illiberal strategies to combat those problems.

(* If you want to understand what I mean by this, think of the kind of views advanced by J.S. Mill or Harriet Taylor.)