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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Trond on September 08, 2021, 11:09:52 AM

Title: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 08, 2021, 11:09:52 AM
For myself, I remember a discussion on RPG.net about sex differences and abilities around 2010-2011. I was just pointing out basic biology but of course it went to shit. The reaction of some people was so perplexing to me that I still remember who it was: primarily David Prokopetz, Logicninja and to a less degree Argent, were sort of "guarding" the thread and making sure nobody stepped out of line with the "poor womenz". :D

So, when did you notice that something had "snapped" among the RPG social justice crowd?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 08, 2021, 10:58:11 PM
I started to pay attention after Elevatorgate.  (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/elevatorgate)
I think the tipping point for TBP was when Cessna stated that rpg.net was not going to become a "safe space". And then, of course, it did.

2010-2011 seems to track in multiple communities. For whatever reasons, the number and influence of SJW types seems to have reached some kind of critical mass at that time.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: jhkim on September 09, 2021, 03:11:56 AM
When I first joined this forum in 2006, one of the recurring topics was Pundit ranting against the Blue Rose RPG. I'd been in a bunch of contentious RPG discussion online, but that was the first big one that felt political.

From my point of view, gaming arguments previously were most often between story-game vs simulationist, which wasn't considered political at the time. Even Pundit's early rants against "The Swine" and story games seemed more over esthetics than politics. But the criticism of Blue Rose seemed more political, as it centered on the supposed collectivist philosophy.

Over the next decade, it seems like a slow slide that politics became more and more central.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: oggsmash on September 09, 2021, 09:14:23 AM
  I really didnt ever notice it, most of the people who I would see hanging out all the time at the LFGS seemed to be to the left of center.   Honestly I was left on most issues as well, but then around 2010 it sort of started to be just one or two issues would solidly plant you in the right or left.   I noticed more and more calls for video games to have more "representation" with no regard as to good or bad.  I probably didnt notice it much at all until I got thread blocked years and years ago over at the big purple for having the audacity to ask how exactly Gary Gygax was a horrible sexist for implying that men are stronger than women.   The responses, and the tone of them made me scratch my head a bit.   

    So around 2014ish I noticed a ramp up of sorts, or at least that was where TBP seemed to get a bit more overt in the political, and of course 2016 it went bonkers over there.  I have a feeling the majority of people in table top rpg games likely skew left.   I know when I was younger (a teen in the 80's) I was the only jock involved in any table top RPGs at all, and the majority of people playing certainly were left, but honestly, I did not care then at all.   Maybe being the people who got pushed into lockers is where the SJW stuff come from?   I do not know.  I still do not much care, and I am willing to tolerate an artist having a left worldview, up to a point.  When that view starts telling me how I MUST think, act, and feel, we start having trouble.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 09, 2021, 12:02:06 PM
  I really didnt ever notice it, most of the people who I would see hanging out all the time at the LFGS seemed to be to the left of center.   Honestly I was left on most issues as well, but then around 2010 it sort of started to be just one or two issues would solidly plant you in the right or left.   I noticed more and more calls for video games to have more "representation" with no regard as to good or bad.  I probably didnt notice it much at all until I got thread blocked years and years ago over at the big purple for having the audacity to ask how exactly Gary Gygax was a horrible sexist for implying that men are stronger than women.   The responses, and the tone of them made me scratch my head a bit.   
Oh yes, they really hate pointing out obvious differences between men and women.
   
So around 2014ish I noticed a ramp up of sorts, or at least that was where TBP seemed to get a bit more overt in the political, and of course 2016 it went bonkers over there.  I have a feeling the majority of people in table top rpg games likely skew left.   I know when I was younger (a teen in the 80's) I was the only jock involved in any table top RPGs at all, and the majority of people playing certainly were left, but honestly, I did not care then at all.   Maybe being the people who got pushed into lockers is where the SJW stuff come from?   I do not know. 
Perhaps. Remember the "tough guys for Trump" thing, and many SJWs HATE "tough guys" with a passion. I think this might be part of the reason for the visceral and irrational reaction some people have to Proud Boys.
I still do not much care, and I am willing to tolerate an artist having a left worldview, up to a point.  When that view starts telling me how I MUST think, act, and feel, we start having trouble.
Same here. Particularly when it comes to entertainment. I keep saying, IT'S ENTERTAINMENT for God's sake. It has probably lead to less violence over time (less boredom etc). We watch movies about serial killers all the time, and somehow we can't handle a "damsel in distress" anymore?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Squidi on September 09, 2021, 12:25:50 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Kael on September 09, 2021, 01:47:16 PM
When Gygax started using the more inclusive "he or she" in the late 70's.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: rytrasmi on September 09, 2021, 02:48:39 PM
When Gygax started using the more inclusive "he or she" in the late 70's.

I've taken the position that we should just call everyone "he." Anything else foments discord and disunity. Plus, as far as older literature goes where "he" was the default, going forward with "he" essentially retcons all that stuff to include everyone, which was largely the intent anyway.

I don't think SJWs have taken over the hobby. They certainly have positions of power at the moment, but my observations at FLGS lead me to conclude that it's a passing interest for them. The obvious SJW groups I see are clearly having less fun actually playing these games than the regular schmucks like me. The last group I saw, the GM spent the entire session talking emphatically while a bunch of woke-looking folx just sat around and nodded and sheepishly looked down at their character sheets from time to time. This was the MO every time I saw this group. Nobody looked like they were having fun by any means.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 09, 2021, 03:54:52 PM
Long ago. When political correctness appeared in everything ("he or she"). There was a break in the early 1980's because of the threat of WW3- equalists always vanish when things get dangerous- but it returned in force after Gorbachev took power in 1985.

It really started going into high gear during the 1990's, and it's been downhill ever since.

You must keep in mind that we didn't get here overnight, we are simply seeing that latest stages of a plan that has been in place before I was ever born. This is why SJWs, noted for their short attention spans, never seem to go away on the whole- the ones behind them won't allow it. Once they get ahold of something then they will remain, destroying any opposing voices.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 09, 2021, 05:56:38 PM
Not a takeover, just a loud and obnoxious bunch. Luckily you can spot then from a mile away, easier to ignore. Stop supporting and acknowledging them, eventually they’ll go away.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2021, 06:25:33 PM
Not a takeover, just a loud and obnoxious bunch. Luckily you can spot then from a mile away, easier to ignore. Stop supporting and acknowledging them, eventually they’ll go away.

Narrator: They didn't go away when they were ignored.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 09, 2021, 07:12:01 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 09, 2021, 07:19:48 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.

I totally recommend picking up a copy of Tucker Carlson’s book. One of the best $15 bucks I ever spent. So much garbage is exposed it’s not even funny.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 09, 2021, 08:14:39 PM
Hey! If you wanna have a good laugh check out this shit post they made about me at r/rpg, it’s hilarious. The SJWs still trying to cancel me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/pl6o6h/rpg_review_knights_and_legends_2nd_edition_or_i/

Was censored for saying, “don’t argue with a fool, because you don’t know who’s watching.” I guess that sent the mod team into a complete meltdown. This is hilariously uncalled for. I haven’t even baited the trolls yet. That was plan b!
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: HappyDaze on September 09, 2021, 10:52:09 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.

I totally recommend picking up a copy of Tucker Carlson’s book. One of the best $15 bucks I ever spent. So much garbage is exposed it’s not even funny.
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 09, 2021, 11:01:12 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.

I totally recommend picking up a copy of Tucker Carlson’s book. One of the best $15 bucks I ever spent. So much garbage is exposed it’s not even funny.
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.

Interesting, I can’t read while on the toilet. I find it unsanitary. The pandemic certainly turned me into a germophobe. What’s wrong with Tucker? Talks the truth?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 09, 2021, 11:03:47 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.

I totally recommend picking up a copy of Tucker Carlson’s book. One of the best $15 bucks I ever spent. So much garbage is exposed it’s not even funny.
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.
Who are you kidding?  We all know you can't read...
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Shasarak on September 09, 2021, 11:16:59 PM
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.

White Fragility is quite soft if you want recommendations.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Squidi on September 09, 2021, 11:22:47 PM
I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.
I think it was Michael Crichton who coined the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. I'll just copy and paste the full quote for those who don't know it:

Quote
“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” – Michael Crichton

GamerGate was when I became immune to Gell-Mann Amnesia. Honestly, it has served me well - especially over the past year and a half.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 09, 2021, 11:31:33 PM
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.

White Fragility is quite soft if you want recommendations.

I was always bad at deciphering these. Could you ELI5? I’m still trying to understand white rage. Too many slangs, categories, boxes, I can’t keep up with all the nonsense. All I know is that I like the, if you are woke you’re loser term.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: HappyDaze on September 09, 2021, 11:38:21 PM
GamerGate, for me. Once video games became increasingly obnoxious (not just social justice, but also microtransactions and loot boxes), I started looking to traditional media for entertainment ithat was more permanent. Wasn't long after that Marvel NOW happened, then Disney buying Star Wars, movies deleting red headed characters (I'm red headed, as are my kids), etc. Miniature games were largely apolitical for a while. After BLM and Games Workshop telling their fans to go away, I came to RPGs - only to discover that they may be the most fucked bunch of them all.

Basically, since GamerGate, it has been moving from one hobby to another, just in time to see it collapse. It was like an apocalypse tour, with RPGs being post apocalypse (though I've found some amazing older stuff). Now, it appears I'm continuing my apocalypse tour with democracy and free speech. Have to admit, watching these fall stings.

I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.

I totally recommend picking up a copy of Tucker Carlson’s book. One of the best $15 bucks I ever spent. So much garbage is exposed it’s not even funny.
I'll consider picking it up f we have another shortage of toilet paper like in the spring of 2020.
Who are you kidding?  We all know you can't read...
Obviously you can't read, as I stated I would only use Tucker's book to wipe my ass.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 10, 2021, 07:45:07 AM
Obviously you can't read, as I stated I would only use Tucker's book to wipe my ass.
And there it is, the tried and true “no YOU can’t read”.

Happydaze, I’m not interested in hearing about you crapping, and even less interested in your threadcrapping.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 10, 2021, 07:52:33 AM
I saw it in RPGs before Gamergate, but holy smokes how GG exposed how corrupt journalism had become. Not only games journalism mind you, as the mainstream media immediately threw themselves onto the same wagon. It was as if everyone was just parroting the same braindead “harassment campaign to drive out women” story.
I think it was Michael Crichton who coined the Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect. I'll just copy and paste the full quote for those who don't know it:

Quote
“Briefly stated, the Gell-Mann Amnesia effect is as follows. You open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. In Murray’s case, physics. In mine, show business. You read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often, the article is so wrong it actually presents the story backward—reversing cause and effect. I call these the “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.

In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement the multiple errors in a story, and then turn the page to national or international affairs, and read as if the rest of the newspaper was somehow more accurate about Palestine than the baloney you just read. You turn the page, and forget what you know.” – Michael Crichton

GamerGate was when I became immune to Gell-Mann Amnesia. Honestly, it has served me well - especially over the past year and a half.
that’s an interesting quote. I have thought similar things but it’s well put.

 “wet streets cause rain” stories. Paper’s full of them.” 😊
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 10, 2021, 08:07:04 AM
I strongly recommend going back a little further and reading 'Bias' by Bernard Goldberg. That got written about 20 years ago and you can see how the cancer metastasized.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: HappyDaze on September 10, 2021, 09:44:57 AM
Obviously you can't read, as I stated I would only use Tucker's book to wipe my ass.
And there it is, the tried and true “no YOU can’t read”.

Happydaze, I’m not interested in hearing about you crapping, and even less interested in your threadcrapping.
I don't post for you, sweetums.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 10, 2021, 11:22:48 AM
Obviously you can't read, as I stated I would only use Tucker's book to wipe my ass.
And there it is, the tried and true “no YOU can’t read”.

Happydaze, I’m not interested in hearing about you crapping, and even less interested in your threadcrapping.
I don't post for you, sweetums.

QED
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 11, 2021, 02:09:33 AM
Tucker Carlson is generally an opportunist.
But books make for AWFUL toilet paper. Scratches your ass and rips super easily.

But yeah for me it was also Gamergate. I was a proto-SJW at the time, and I even remember doing some 'Why is she wearing so little clothes' whining when I was like 13.
But gamergate happened and the media that I expected to trivially make out these hucksters completly joined their side, and so many people that in theory where 'Critical and badass and all about being edgy!' suddenly all about telling you to shut up and how you shouldn't be allowed to talk.

Thats when I realized something was up.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Kiero on September 11, 2021, 06:16:57 AM
Not a takeover, just a loud and obnoxious bunch. Luckily you can spot then from a mile away, easier to ignore. Stop supporting and acknowledging them, eventually they’ll go away.

You really are a special kind of dim, aren't you? That's exactly how the vocal SJWs were able to hijack the hobby, because morons like you thought if you just put your fingers in your ears and ignored them, they'd lose interest. Instead you surrendered the public sphere to them and gave them control without any resistance. Well done!
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: jeff37923 on September 11, 2021, 05:01:38 PM
It was about a year before GenCon virtue signaled that they were going to move out of Indiana due to Pence's defense of marriage legislation. I remember such stupid things as that, Stacey Dellofano (SP?) starting off with a cool idea for a women's only con and ending with a maniacal tirade of Tumblr Feminism, the dumbass idea of running Tournament of Rapists in a public venue was cool (with Trechiron defending it), and Motorskills claiming that if you didn't play a gay character in your games that you were then homophobic.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 11, 2021, 07:20:08 PM
Not a takeover, just a loud and obnoxious bunch. Luckily you can spot then from a mile away, easier to ignore. Stop supporting and acknowledging them, eventually they’ll go away.

You really are a special kind of dim, aren't you? That's exactly how the vocal SJWs were able to hijack the hobby, because morons like you thought if you just put your fingers in your ears and ignored them, they'd lose interest. Instead you surrendered the public sphere to them and gave them control without any resistance. Well done!

Lol! Nah, it’s because you shouldn’t argue with a fool, because you don’t know who’s watching. They’re clearly very mentally ill. They’re self destructive, I feel great pity for them.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 12, 2021, 04:43:10 PM
Not a takeover, just a loud and obnoxious bunch. Luckily you can spot then from a mile away, easier to ignore. Stop supporting and acknowledging them, eventually they’ll go away.

You really are a special kind of dim, aren't you? That's exactly how the vocal SJWs were able to hijack the hobby, because morons like you thought if you just put your fingers in your ears and ignored them, they'd lose interest. Instead you surrendered the public sphere to them and gave them control without any resistance. Well done!

Lol! Nah, it’s because you shouldn’t argue with a fool, because you don’t know who’s watching. They’re clearly very mentally ill. They’re self destructive, I feel great pity for them.


I'm afraid he's right about the ignoring part. SJWs may have short attention spans but the elites controlling them most certainly do not. I've seen for myself for a half-century that "ignoring them" never works. Look where we are today. Look what happened to the "Dragonlance" authors when they DID give in to the demands- they were effectively cancelled anyway.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 12, 2021, 04:46:02 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 04:50:14 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: GriswaldTerrastone on September 12, 2021, 04:56:38 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 05:03:18 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2021, 05:13:39 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
'Being canceled is a state of mind'.

...Cool. Is it a state of mind when you lose work, or get summarily kicked off a payment processor?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 12, 2021, 05:15:41 PM
The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad.
I call those people the 'Pawn' SJWs. Because they are up and front and visible and make you think thats all the movement is. There are plenty of SJWs (Kingsif you may) that keep their mouth shut until they are in HR (or are teachers or are in some other position of power) and then quietly and firmly proceed to impliment their agenda.

People tend to notice the pawns and ignore the Kings when you must do the exact opposite. Kings are cowardly and hate being called out. Pawns revel in it.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 05:16:15 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
'Being canceled is a state of mind'.

...Cool. Is it a state of mind when you lose work, or get summarily kicked off a payment processor?

That’s a good point. But loosely thrown around is difficult to comprehend. Unless there’s a full story with full facts, impossible to agree or disagree with it.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 12, 2021, 05:17:04 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
'Being canceled is a state of mind'.

...Cool. Is it a state of mind when you lose work, or get summarily kicked off a payment processor?

That’s a good point. But loosely thrown around is difficult to comprehend. Unless there’s a full story with full facts, impossible to agree or disagree with it.
You could start by talking to our gracious host about how the worthless fucknugget brigade has been trying to get him kicked off DTR for a while now.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad.
I call those people the 'Pawn' SJWs. Because they are up and front and visible and make you think thats all the movement is. There are plenty of SJWs (Kingsif you may) that keep their mouth shut until they are in HR (or are teachers or are in some other position of power) and then quietly and firmly proceed to impliment their agenda.

People tend to notice the pawns and ignore the Kings when you must do the exact opposite. Kings are cowardly and hate being called out. Pawns revel in it.

Well yes, that’s absolutely true. The master puppeteer was always harder to identify.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 12, 2021, 05:20:40 PM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
'Being canceled is a state of mind'.

...Cool. Is it a state of mind when you lose work, or get summarily kicked off a payment processor?

That’s a good point. But loosely thrown around is difficult to comprehend. Unless there’s a full story with full facts, impossible to agree or disagree with it.
You could start by talking to our gracious host about how the worthless fucknugget brigade has been trying to get him kicked off DTR for a while now.
He won’t get kicked out. If he does, I’ll pull all my products from there myself.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Shrieking Banshee on September 12, 2021, 05:56:35 PM
Well yes, that’s absolutely true. The master puppeteer was always harder to identify.

Their not even puppetmasters (The SJW movement is not really centralized), they just understand how to lie and keep their mouth shut.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 13, 2021, 06:36:41 AM
SJWs where ignored when you should have paid attention and where given attention when they should have been ignored.
That has been the key to their success. Knowing when to do which is the key to their defeat.

The average SJWs are tormented people desperately craving some sort of attention, be it good or bad. Ignoring is always the best option. It makes them feel like they don’t exist, nothing worst for a attention sicking troll begging for 5 minutes of attention.


FelixGamingX1, trust me when I tell you that does not work. Again, look around you. Look at what happened to "Star Wars," "Dr. Who," Wizards of the Coast, Marvel, DC, the list goes on. Look around at society.

Being canceled is a state of mind. The second the trolls hear knights & legends, they start begging for attention and engage in shitposting, etc. Perhaps “being cancelled” was the best thing that happened to me. I certainly capitalized on the publicity. End of the day, only you can cancel you. If these authors allowed themselves to be cancelled it’s because they bowed to these weirdos. I simply spread the word, hey they trying to cancel me. Everyone knows, nothing new. Business as usual.
'Being canceled is a state of mind'.

...Cool. Is it a state of mind when you lose work, or get summarily kicked off a payment processor?

That’s a good point. But loosely thrown around is difficult to comprehend. Unless there’s a full story with full facts, impossible to agree or disagree with it.
You could start by talking to our gracious host about how the worthless fucknugget brigade has been trying to get him kicked off DTR for a while now.
He won’t get kicked out. If he does, I’ll pull all my products from there myself.
To quote Chernobyl:

Charkov: Why worry about something that isn't going to happen?
Legasov: "Why worry about something that isn't going to happen?" Oh, that's perfect. They should put that on our money.

Pretending 'oh it'll never happen' is kinda how we got here.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: lordmalachdrim on September 13, 2021, 07:46:00 AM
First inklings were in college dealing with the "gamers" on campus. More serious was around the mid 2000s as the tone on the sound off section of Palladium's boards turn.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: DM_Curt on September 13, 2021, 01:22:21 PM
Quote
When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?

Probably too damn late.
When I was on Facebook, I joined a bunch of D&D pages. The largest was run by raging SJWs (1 trans person, 1 pink-haired obese person who wrote a module or two for WotC, etc.)  One tactic they would use was every couple of weeks they would let a bait post sit for a few hours and get a lot of comments, then afterwards go through and ban every opposing viewpoint.  The fact that it was the largest page was a clue.
Then, Twitter, as the actual WotC staff would pander to every far-left nonsense that swung by.

Glad I am no longer on either platform.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: King Tyranno on September 13, 2021, 06:35:31 PM
I noticed the SJW bollocks around the same time as I noticed the sudden obsession with this strange podcast that badly pretended to be DnD from a mediocre DM that enabled many of the bad habits that had annoyed me previously.

Hand in hand I noticed several things. Suddenly players were galvanised to dictate to the GM what to do. This included the pronoun stuff of course. And throwing tantrums when I'd say I wasn't a fan of their weird furry Tiefling OC. It all snowballed from there. Suddenly I'm a bigot for discovering I like B/X more than 5E, voting for the "wrong" politics, and liking or not liking things different from the hive mind. I'm an evil meany GM because I wouldn't run an adventure exactly like it was told in a you tube video. And an even meaner GM because I respected dice rolls I had no control over instead of just fudging things so everyone always lived happily ever after.
For the past 5 years I just tried to get on and play games as much as I could within these annoying restrictions. Respecting the made up pronouns of the mentally ill, letting them have that "super oppressed" tiefling, trying to prevent death because only hardcore edgelords respect dice rolls as is.  I didn't want to be the old man yelling at the clouds. I didn't want to be a mean old boomer just moaning at kids. I did everything as the consensus wanted. But it sucked. I grew to resent 5E and the SJWs running the show. And now I've got a B/X game I want running it really made me realize I shouldn't have capitulated as I did.

Still though, fuck Critical Role. Fuck Matt Mercer and his shitty DM style creating expectations in newer Gamers. Whilst I doubt he's the only reason SJWs infiltrated with the woke bullshit. He was absolutely one of the sappers who breached the walls. So they could come in.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 14, 2021, 03:46:37 PM
Quote
I remember a discussion on RPG.net about sex differences and abilities around 2010-2011.

Quote
2010-2011 seems to track in multiple communities.

Quote
When I first joined this forum in 2006, one of the recurring topics was Pundit ranting against the Blue Rose RPG. ...Over the next decade, it seems like a slow slide that politics became more and more central.

I've said this before in threads on similar topics, but I'm never averse to repeating myself: the point where I spotted the real shift in polarization, viciousness, and moral conviction on the part of the SJ movement was in mid-2008, when Sarah Palin was nominated for the Republican Vice-Presidential candidacy after Barack Obama had secured the Democratic Presidential nomination. The fervency among the American Left to secure the moral accomplishment of having the first black President, especially after having had to grit their teeth for years pretending to support the anti-terrorism campaigns following the 9/11 attacks, is hard to understate, especially when Palin's appointment gave real momentum to the Republican campaign and it looked for a month or two like the Republicans might actually beat the Democrats to a coveted "First Non-White Male" national executive position.

After the 2008 financial crisis caused McCain to (stupidly, in my opinion) suspend his campaigning, the triumphalism following Obama's successful election combined with the new availability and reach of social media platforms to transform the movement. I consider it no coincidence that the fandom imbroglio known as "RaceFail" -- look that up -- happened the year after Obama's election in 2009, and was the first manifestation of the kind of ideological purge to which SJ movements have always been prone. Obama was the first President to really give the SJ movement in North America a sense that they had finally achieved a kind of cultural "mandate of heaven", a public willingness to adopt the philosophy, and Hillary was expected to maintain and reinforce that mandate -- that was why Trump's election in 2016 caused the breakdown it did.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: oggsmash on September 14, 2021, 06:58:03 PM
Quote
I remember a discussion on RPG.net about sex differences and abilities around 2010-2011.

Quote
2010-2011 seems to track in multiple communities.

Quote
When I first joined this forum in 2006, one of the recurring topics was Pundit ranting against the Blue Rose RPG. ...Over the next decade, it seems like a slow slide that politics became more and more central.

I've said this before in threads on similar topics, but I'm never averse to repeating myself: the point where I spotted the real shift in polarization, viciousness, and moral conviction on the part of the SJ movement was in mid-2008, when Sarah Palin was nominated for the Republican Vice-Presidential candidacy after Barack Obama had secured the Democratic Presidential nomination. The fervency among the American Left to secure the moral accomplishment of having the first black President, especially after having had to grit their teeth for years pretending to support the anti-terrorism campaigns following the 9/11 attacks, is hard to understate, especially when Palin's appointment gave real momentum to the Republican campaign and it looked for a month or two like the Republicans might actually beat the Democrats to a coveted "First Non-White Male" national executive position.

After the 2008 financial crisis caused McCain to (stupidly, in my opinion) suspend his campaigning, the triumphalism following Obama's successful election combined with the new availability and reach of social media platforms to transform the movement. I consider it no coincidence that the fandom imbroglio known as "RaceFail" -- look that up -- happened the year after Obama's election in 2009, and was the first manifestation of the kind of ideological purge to which SJ movements have always been prone. Obama was the first President to really give the SJ movement in North America a sense that they had finally achieved a kind of cultural "mandate of heaven", a public willingness to adopt the philosophy, and Hillary was expected to maintain and reinforce that mandate -- that was why Trump's election in 2016 caused the breakdown it did.


  I am going to have to be honest here, I agree about how hard they went at Palin....But McCain was fucking horrible.  I did not vote for either of them, but as I hit that Libertarian ticket, I have to admit I hoped to high heaven that McCain would not be POTUS. edited to add:  I *want* to think in hindsight McCain might have been better...but I can also look at him in hindsight after that election as well, and I hate to say...I am glad Obama won that election.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Pat on September 14, 2021, 07:09:21 PM
  I am going to have to be honest here, I agree about how hard they went at Palin....But McCain was fucking horrible.  I did not vote for either of them, but as I hit that Libertarian ticket, I have to admit I hoped to high heaven that McCain would not be POTUS. edited to add:  I *want* to think in hindsight McCain might have been better...but I can also look at him in hindsight after that election as well, and I hate to say...I am glad Obama won that election.
McCain ran a Hillary Clinton campaign. Low energy, low effort.

Obama ran on hope for the country's race-blind future.

Shame how that turned out.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 14, 2021, 07:11:14 PM
More than one conservative referred to McCain as the 'least repulsive Democrat'.

Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Fergurg on September 14, 2021, 07:18:38 PM
  I am going to have to be honest here, I agree about how hard they went at Palin....But McCain was fucking horrible.  I did not vote for either of them, but as I hit that Libertarian ticket, I have to admit I hoped to high heaven that McCain would not be POTUS. edited to add:  I *want* to think in hindsight McCain might have been better...but I can also look at him in hindsight after that election as well, and I hate to say...I am glad Obama won that election.
McCain ran a Hillary Clinton campaign. Low energy, low effort.

Obama ran on hope for the country's race-blind future.

Shame how that turned out.

I’ll go further. McCain clearly had no intention of winning. He sounded like he was campaigning to be in Obama’s cabinet and every single time something came up that could have hurt Obama’s campaign, McCain made a point to dismiss it as irrelevant.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: oggsmash on September 15, 2021, 07:53:26 AM
  I am going to have to be honest here, I agree about how hard they went at Palin....But McCain was fucking horrible.  I did not vote for either of them, but as I hit that Libertarian ticket, I have to admit I hoped to high heaven that McCain would not be POTUS. edited to add:  I *want* to think in hindsight McCain might have been better...but I can also look at him in hindsight after that election as well, and I hate to say...I am glad Obama won that election.
McCain ran a Hillary Clinton campaign. Low energy, low effort.

Obama ran on hope for the country's race-blind future.

Shame how that turned out.

I’ll go further. McCain clearly had no intention of winning. He sounded like he was campaigning to be in Obama’s cabinet and every single time something came up that could have hurt Obama’s campaign, McCain made a point to dismiss it as irrelevant.

  Yes.  I would also add, now that we have hindsight, what sort of complete narcissist holds onto a position like that with a FUCKING BRAIN TUMOR?   If there is a medical condition that should allow for immediate removal from office, I would think a brain tumor has to be it.  Leave, rest, get well... but make big policy decisions?  fuck no.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: horsesoldier on September 17, 2021, 12:00:42 PM
There has always been a tilting towards progressive ideology, whatever that may be at the time, and the nerd phenotype. Physically weak people, the unattractive but smart, these types of people are in a majority sense going to be drawn towards the hot new thing. In the past this was Christianity, or Protestantism, or the industrial revolution or whatever.

Today it's begging that your town of 30k gets 5k Afghans and 8 year olds on puberty blockers.

Anyway, when it first dawned on me, I guess it was Origins in the summer of 2003. Just having graduated high school in Texas, the kind of gamers I had been around were either wargamers, who by personality trended more "conservative" or roleplayers, most of which was just weird people. Looking back on that time I never had a thought about the politics someone might have had nor did we have any conversations relating to that. We talked about girls, games, sports, crap like that. My other con experience had been on a university campus and I didn't treat it as representative. Anyway, going up to Ohio and seeing the nerd flotsam that had spilled into Columbus, I started to identify the lefty tinge to the hobby.

When it coasleced into something more concrete I guess it would be gamergate and it's after effects. The first time I really grappled with SJW mealy mouth bullshit was George R. R. Martin tying to explain why the Sad/Sick puppies were a bad thing for his precious worldcon. Guy just couldn't or wouldn't come out and say what the problem was. Meanwhile his opponents could. Since then I have learned the side who is able to simply explain a problem is usually the correct one.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 17, 2021, 01:24:30 PM
There has always been a tilting towards progressive ideology, whatever that may be at the time, and the nerd phenotype. Physically weak people, the unattractive but smart, these types of people are in a majority sense going to be drawn towards the hot new thing.

I think it's less about the "hot new thing" and more about the opinions towards society and other people that certain formative experiences tend to inculcate in people. Using myself and many fandom friends I've known as examples, several childhood characteristics tended to be common among the Western fan-geek population, especially in the '70s and '80s:

- Frequent humiliation and/or rejection by peers, usually as the victims of bullying or teasing based on unusual interests, or genuine gaps in intellect and/or maturity.
- Generally better experiences with teachers and adults, especially if the adults encouraged those interests rather than mocking them.
- Personal familiarity with family collapse, either their own or a close friend's or relative's.

Assuming formative experiences like these always seemed a very plausible explanation for many of the traits I've seen demonstrated by fervent progressivists (and which I possessed a few of to some degree myself, back in my more centrist days):

- contempt for popular taste and opinion;
- admiration for benevolent authority figures who could use their power to redress injustices and share things out fairly;
- the belief that society would do better if run by a small gifted elite than by leaving the hoi-polloi to themselves;
- disdain for "traditional families" and the impatience with any arguments that such families were best for both parents and children;
- the desire to characterize rejection, criticism and condemnation (even purely verbally or philosophically) as socially destructive assault when done by the majority to the minority or the powerful to the weak, but to embrace it as moral and heroic when done in reverse. (This is, of course, one of the first things to change now that progressivist philosophy has such a stranglehold on certain key channels of social power.)
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Novastar on September 17, 2021, 05:22:47 PM
As for many others, it was Gamergate. It was quite literally shocking to me, the demonization that took place from the media.
I like to think I was no innocent before that, but the sheer willful vitriol and dishonesty from those being criticized, was appalling.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 17, 2021, 06:35:18 PM
….The first time I really grappled with SJW mealy mouth bullshit was George R. R. Martin tying to explain why the Sad/Sick puppies were a bad thing for his precious worldcon. Guy just couldn't or wouldn't come out and say what the problem was. Meanwhile his opponents could. ….

Wut? George RR Martin? I’m not his biggest fan but I always thought he was relatively cool?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Eirikrautha on September 17, 2021, 07:06:08 PM
….The first time I really grappled with SJW mealy mouth bullshit was George R. R. Martin tying to explain why the Sad/Sick puppies were a bad thing for his precious worldcon. Guy just couldn't or wouldn't come out and say what the problem was. Meanwhile his opponents could. ….

Wut? George RR Martin? I’m not his biggest fan but I always thought he was relatively cool?

Hell no!  He championed giving no award in any category of the Hugos that a non-woke book looked like it had a chance to win.  He's part of the cult, only old and cantankerous enough that they really don't like him, either...
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 17, 2021, 08:05:14 PM
OK, and what was the deal with the sad puppies?
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 17, 2021, 10:10:08 PM
OK, and what was the deal with the sad puppies?
As I understand it, Sad Puppies was the brainchild of Larry Correia, who was out to make the point that the Hugos had devolved into a circlejerk for the 'in' crowd at Worldcon. If you checked off the right diversity boxes, you got nominated, regardless of your work's quality.

This led to Larry and several other center-to-right authors campaigning for a slate of nominations, which resulted in the usual suspects losing their minds and culminating in the 'no award' bid, rather than vote for something nominated by (ew) conservatives.

Correia offers his explanation here: https://monsterhunternation.com/2014/04/24/an-explanation-about-the-hugo-awards-controversy/

After a few passes with the Sad Puppies, Correia more or less departed it to focus on, y'know, writing. He'd made his point, in his opinion. I suspect that he was also tired of dealing with Teddy Beale/Vox Day, who was running the 'Rabid Puppies' campaign -- which was Sad Puppies with no class at all.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: oggsmash on September 17, 2021, 10:14:38 PM
  Dealing with Vox Day would make a fucking champion triathlete exhausted.   That guy is as full of his own shit as anyone I have ever heard talk.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on September 18, 2021, 01:12:56 AM
I suspect that he was also tired of dealing with Teddy Beale/Vox Day, who was running the 'Rabid Puppies' campaign -- which was Sad Puppies with no class at all.

More formally, the Sad Puppies was a campaign to see if the Hugos could be restored from the in-crowd publishers' clique control that had come to dominate it over the last couple of decades, whereas the Rabid Puppies had already written it off as beyond rescuing and explicitly acknowledged that their goal was to, in pretty much exactly Day's own words, "burn the whole thing to the ground".

Classless it may have been, but not as classless as the "asterisk" token given out at the particular Hugo ceremony for the "No Award" votes, which may not have been deliberately designed to look like a human anus but the resemblance to which was gleefully joked about at the ceremony in question.
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ghostmaker on September 18, 2021, 11:13:25 AM
I suspect that he was also tired of dealing with Teddy Beale/Vox Day, who was running the 'Rabid Puppies' campaign -- which was Sad Puppies with no class at all.

More formally, the Sad Puppies was a campaign to see if the Hugos could be restored from the in-crowd publishers' clique control that had come to dominate it over the last couple of decades, whereas the Rabid Puppies had already written it off as beyond rescuing and explicitly acknowledged that their goal was to, in pretty much exactly Day's own words, "burn the whole thing to the ground".

Classless it may have been, but not as classless as the "asterisk" token given out at the particular Hugo ceremony for the "No Award" votes, which may not have been deliberately designed to look like a human anus but the resemblance to which was gleefully joked about at the ceremony in question.
Personally, I figured Rabid Puppies was primarily to stroke Beale's enormous ego.

From remarks Correia has made, I don't think even he thought the Hugos could be salvaged. He was simply making the point that the emperor had no clothes and the Hugos had devolved into circlejerking. I could be wrong about Correia's views though.

Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: ChrisFox on September 18, 2021, 03:57:01 PM
Sad puppies you say? Talk about good timing for me to enter the thread. Apologies for the length in advance lol.

I had been a gamer geek for years, but in 2010 I quit World of Warcraft, and stopping playing Pathfinder every Saturday. I put everything I had into teaching myself iPhone development, and rode the tech wave into a San Francisco startup job despite not having anything like a degree. This was the only time in my life I put gaming on hold, before or since.

When I left gaming was what I considered normal. Everyone was welcome. It was a tolerant space, and if we got a bad apple we tried to reform them. Real jerks were pretty rare, and dealt with harshly. Being gay was no longer noteworthy.

Fast forward to 2014. I'd been a software engineer for a few years. Long enough that in my spare time I started writing again. I finished a novel, and published it. That book did well. So did the next one. A few books later I quit the software gig to become a full time author, and it is here that we start getting back to the point of the thread.

I became very well known in the author community. I participated in hundreds of tiny groups, and got to know tons of people. I was on all sorts of podcasts. I thought of the author community as the same seamless whole that the gaming community had been to me. Right, left, center, white, black, alien...we were all authors trying to make a living telling stories.

And then came Sad Puppies. As an author I got to see how the sausage is made. I knew most people on all sides, and got along with everyone. I was Switzerland, basically. But it got harder and harder to stay neutral as I saw one side argue in good faith, and the other do an end run around them to take over their cons.

Over the next five years scary milestones kept popping up. Podcasts like Writing Excuses, my dream to be on, publicly stated they didn't want any more white male authors as guests. Sorry, Chris, wrong skin color and gender. Every award we have to give was given to a PoC or woman, usually both, regardless of quality. I saw the stories, some amazing, some not, get pushed entirely on the identity of the author. It had nothing to do with the strength of the writing, and everything to do with perceived virtue.

The Hugos and Nebulas have always been popularity contests, but now it became about activism. And it didn't stop there. Every author who'd come before us was scrutinized, and dissected. The authors who's shoulders we were standing on. If they could find something worth cancelling, then they did it. Award names were changed. Pillars of the science fiction community were removed.

It didn't matter that if you read the person's comments you could see they weren't racists. They'd said that fiction about a certain skin color, in the 1950s, would not sell to their audience. They didn't condone it. They talked about an ugly reality every working writers faces. Rent comes around every month, and if you don't play ball with the publishes you don't eat. The publishers don't eat if no one buys their books.

We lost the fight. The awards were hijacked, and are now no longer taken seriously in the real author community. It was a bitter pill for me to swallow, because not only was  I was captain naive, but I dreamed of winning one of these awards. Since I was a little kid. And I had thought we were all friends. We'd had drinks together at conventions. We'd partied on several beaches.

Those friendships held until the end of 2016. Then the author community fractured, as other communities fractured. By 2019 when they renamed the Campbell award I bailed out, and stopped doing podcasts and conventions. I couldn't handle the division and strife any more.

Where did I go back to? What was my go to escape? I could go back to gaming! Rejoin the hobbies I loved so much.

I've been a member of RPG.net since the month it opened. I have accounts on pretty much every gaming forum going back into the 90s. Over the next week or two I found that every last one had been infiltrated and co-opted. No longer did we talk about gaming. There were no threads about when is Dark Sun coming to 5e.

Now it was all about racism, and sexism, and oppression. And not in a good way. Life long gamers know that those themes are already baked into most of fantasy, because most fantasy authors were geeks who got bullied as kids. This was different. I began to see extremism. Real extremism. For the first time in my life.

Instead of tolerance people began to tell you how you were supposed to play, and if you disagreed you were an istophobe. Things came to a head for me when the Last Jedi came out, and have gotten so much worse since then. Only then did I realize an agenda was being pushed in all forms of entertainment.

I had expected to return to roleplaying to find it the last bastion of free thinking and tolerance. Instead I found it was actually one of the very first places to fall. And the signs were there the entire time...I just didn't know to look for them. I still remember playing a con game in 1998 that we still call the stupidest plot ever.

We were sent to rescue griffin eggs. The heavy handed, poorly written plot was all about how men are evil for enslaving beasts, but we were going to fight the system and free an adult griffin...that had already killed a child.

Hearing some of the people in this thread mention it going back even earlier to the 70s is fascinating. I would love to hear more about  the early days of gaming in general, but especially how the rot spread.

I started gaming in the early 80s, but didn't really come into my own until 1990 when I was a Freshman in high school. Gaming with girls was the norm, and equality wasn't something we even thought about. Black, white, asian, jew...we were just misfits.

Anyway, thanks for attending my TED talk haha
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Trond on September 18, 2021, 09:39:32 PM
Sad puppies you say? Talk about good timing for me to enter the thread. Apologies for the length in advance lol….

You do seem to have that writing bug still 😀
Yeah, I’m afraid RPGs were infested early on.
Anyway thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?
Post by: Ocule on September 22, 2021, 09:23:04 PM
Quote
When did you first start to notice the SJW takeover of the hobby?

Probably too damn late.
When I was on Facebook, I joined a bunch of D&D pages. The largest was run by raging SJWs (1 trans person, 1 pink-haired obese person who wrote a module or two for WotC, etc.)  One tactic they would use was every couple of weeks they would let a bait post sit for a few hours and get a lot of comments, then afterwards go through and ban every opposing viewpoint.  The fact that it was the largest page was a clue.
Then, Twitter, as the actual WotC staff would pander to every far-left nonsense that swung by.

Glad I am no longer on either platform.

Jesus I know exactly the group you mean