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Author Topic: What will divide us next?  (Read 4226 times)

Joey2k

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2021, 01:28:26 PM »
Pedophilia is a regular accusation that goes back and forth from both sides. Epstein was a hated figure from people of all politics, with ties to both party's elite. I don't think it's an actual dividing opinion among ordinary people of either side.

As recently as 5 years ago I would have said the same thing about men using women's restrooms.
The word "problematic" is problematic

Ghostmaker

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2021, 01:36:39 PM »
Yeah, Epstein was so hated dozens if not hundreds of political figures were connected to him.

Horace

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2021, 01:39:24 PM »
Pedophilia is a regular accusation that goes back and forth from both sides. ... I don't think it's an actual dividing opinion among ordinary people of either side.
As recently as 5 years ago I would have said the same thing about men using women's restrooms.
And irreparably harming children with drugs and surgery (i.e. "transitioning").

Ghostmaker

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2021, 01:41:38 PM »
Found what will be the next big divider.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10088083/Inflation-rate-rises-5-4-matching-13-year-high-set-summer.html

Get ready for that right-up-the-ass stagflation, kids.



But hey, according to Bloomberg, this is a GOOD thing!

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-10-11/transitory-inflation-the-fed-should-strive-to-make-it-permanent

Jesus Christ. Forget the lawyers, let's kill the economists off first.

oggsmash

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2021, 02:36:50 PM »
  People willing to surgically mutilate kids, well under the age of consent do not inspire confidence in me as to their distaste for pedos.  I do not include present company, but speaking in the more broad political context.  I think age of consent is just that, and not an amorphous line where we get to move it for woke points...because that is how it will get shifted for pedos down the line. 

   

Kiero

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2021, 05:20:58 PM »
Pedophilia is a regular accusation that goes back and forth from both sides.

In the 1970s, figures in the mainstream British left (right up to Labour party MPs) were openly supportive of the Paedophile Information Exchange. That's not just an "accusation" that's a fact.
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Neoplatonist1

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2021, 06:54:33 PM »

Trond

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2021, 02:52:50 PM »
What will divide us? They will come up with something.

Conan the lesbian woman of color? (maybe I shouldn't spread these ideas into the ether  ;D)

jhkim

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2021, 02:59:05 PM »
  People willing to surgically mutilate kids, well under the age of consent do not inspire confidence in me as to their distaste for pedos.  I do not include present company, but speaking in the more broad political context.  I think age of consent is just that, and not an amorphous line where we get to move it for woke points...because that is how it will get shifted for pedos down the line.

Thanks about not specifically including me, but I don't think that I'm different from most other progressives on this point. I have a number of friends with transgender kids, and I think everyone just want what's best for their kids. I gather you consider transgender adults existing to be a great moral wrong, so if that is your belief, I can see where you're coming from. But the parents of transgender kids also just want their kids to grow up healthy and happy.

I don't know for sure what the best approach as a parent is. I know in the time and place when I grew up, gay and transgender kids would get beaten and bullied a whole lot, and I consider that approach wrong. So this is a place where I don't subscribe to older values. (If we go to *much* older and/or to other cultures, many societies have had a traditional role in which gay and transgender people are accepted - though I would also want modern things like science and democracy.)


I'm not sure I understand your last point. Age of consent is inherently a semi-arbitrary legal line, like age of majority, voting age, and military draft age. Historically, these have varied from country to country and state to state, and have changed over time. I'm not clear what you're advocating for in this.

oggsmash

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2021, 03:18:55 PM »
  People willing to surgically mutilate kids, well under the age of consent do not inspire confidence in me as to their distaste for pedos.  I do not include present company, but speaking in the more broad political context.  I think age of consent is just that, and not an amorphous line where we get to move it for woke points...because that is how it will get shifted for pedos down the line.

Thanks about not specifically including me, but I don't think that I'm different from most other progressives on this point. I have a number of friends with transgender kids, and I think everyone just want what's best for their kids. I gather you consider transgender adults existing to be a great moral wrong, so if that is your belief, I can see where you're coming from. But the parents of transgender kids also just want their kids to grow up healthy and happy.

I don't know for sure what the best approach as a parent is. I know in the time and place when I grew up, gay and transgender kids would get beaten and bullied a whole lot, and I consider that approach wrong. So this is a place where I don't subscribe to older values. (If we go to *much* older and/or to other cultures, many societies have had a traditional role in which gay and transgender people are accepted - though I would also want modern things like science and democracy.)


I'm not sure I understand your last point. Age of consent is inherently a semi-arbitrary legal line, like age of majority, voting age, and military draft age. Historically, these have varied from country to country and state to state, and have changed over time. I'm not clear what you're advocating for in this.

 OK.  If this is in good faith, try not to start off  like that.  I do not care how any adult lives. You instantly implying I have any issue with how someone "exists" is a big fucking red herring and completely off putting out of the gate.  That said, an ADULT makes ADULT decisions.  Making irreversible decisions for very young kids, when they really have no say, or have no further information or experience is IMO a great moral wrong.  So out of the gate, you do NOT see where I am coming from, you start this off in bad faith.  Let's fix that, and then maybe we can have a discussion.

 

jhkim

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2021, 03:58:50 PM »
OK.  If this is in good faith, try not to start off  like that.  I do not care how any adult lives. You instantly implying I have any issue with how someone "exists" is a big fucking red herring and completely off putting out of the gate.  That said, an ADULT makes ADULT decisions.  Making irreversible decisions for very young kids, when they really have no say, or have no further information or experience is IMO a great moral wrong.  So out of the gate, you do NOT see where I am coming from, you start this off in bad faith.  Let's fix that, and then maybe we can have a discussion.

Fair enough. I won't say anything more about your position.

I largely agree about surgery on very young kids. The common cases of irreversible surgery for young kids that I know about are circumcision for boys, as well as the long-standing practice of genital surgery on intersex babies and toddlers. I am against both of these. I was circumcised without my consent as a 1-year-old, and I did not do that to my son.

In all of the cases of transgender kids that I know of, the kids have had to insist on it themselves. It has only come up after the child is able to talk and express themselves. No one decides for the kid - and if they did, then I would agree it is child abuse (which sadly happens to a lot of kids).

oggsmash

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2021, 04:04:02 PM »
OK.  If this is in good faith, try not to start off  like that.  I do not care how any adult lives. You instantly implying I have any issue with how someone "exists" is a big fucking red herring and completely off putting out of the gate.  That said, an ADULT makes ADULT decisions.  Making irreversible decisions for very young kids, when they really have no say, or have no further information or experience is IMO a great moral wrong.  So out of the gate, you do NOT see where I am coming from, you start this off in bad faith.  Let's fix that, and then maybe we can have a discussion.

Fair enough. I won't say anything more about your position.

I largely agree about surgery on very young kids. The common cases of irreversible surgery for young kids that I know about are circumcision for boys, as well as the long-standing practice of genital surgery on intersex babies and toddlers. I am against both of these. I was circumcised without my consent as a 1-year-old, and I did not do that to my son.

In all of the cases of transgender kids that I know of, the kids have had to insist on it themselves. It has only come up after the child is able to talk and express themselves. No one decides for the kid - and if they did, then I would agree it is child abuse (which sadly happens to a lot of kids).

  I know kids that insist on eating chocolate cake every meal.  Or who eat their own boogers.  I am not so sure a young kid really should have much say until they get a bit older.

  I will add this, you should just apologize for assuming I have some hatred or animus towards transgenders. I do not.  I have only a couple issues with the whole subject, bathrooms, sports, and kids too young to decide permanent consequences (there is a reason you have to be 18 to enter into a contract).
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 04:06:01 PM by oggsmash »

jhkim

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2021, 04:44:14 PM »
I largely agree about surgery on very young kids. The common cases of irreversible surgery for young kids that I know about are circumcision for boys, as well as the long-standing practice of genital surgery on intersex babies and toddlers. I am against both of these. I was circumcised without my consent as a 1-year-old, and I did not do that to my son.

In all of the cases of transgender kids that I know of, the kids have had to insist on it themselves. It has only come up after the child is able to talk and express themselves. No one decides for the kid - and if they did, then I would agree it is child abuse (which sadly happens to a lot of kids).

  I know kids that insist on eating chocolate cake every meal.  Or who eat their own boogers.  I am not so sure a young kid really should have much say until they get a bit older.

  I will add this, you should just apologize for assuming I have some hatred or animus towards transgenders. I do not.  I have only a couple issues with the whole subject, bathrooms, sports, and kids too young to decide permanent consequences (there is a reason you have to be 18 to enter into a contract).

I apologize for assuming any animus towards transgender people.

I agree about some kids being too young to decide permanent consequence. From my view, young kids aren't ready to make decisions, so they shouldn't have irreversible surgery done on them until they are old enough. For example, my son is 21 now. If he wanted to get circumcised now, that's for sure his choice. I just wasn't going to force that on him as a baby. The same applies to intersex kids.

oggsmash

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #43 on: October 14, 2021, 04:54:08 PM »
I largely agree about surgery on very young kids. The common cases of irreversible surgery for young kids that I know about are circumcision for boys, as well as the long-standing practice of genital surgery on intersex babies and toddlers. I am against both of these. I was circumcised without my consent as a 1-year-old, and I did not do that to my son.

In all of the cases of transgender kids that I know of, the kids have had to insist on it themselves. It has only come up after the child is able to talk and express themselves. No one decides for the kid - and if they did, then I would agree it is child abuse (which sadly happens to a lot of kids).

  I know kids that insist on eating chocolate cake every meal.  Or who eat their own boogers.  I am not so sure a young kid really should have much say until they get a bit older.

  I will add this, you should just apologize for assuming I have some hatred or animus towards transgenders. I do not.  I have only a couple issues with the whole subject, bathrooms, sports, and kids too young to decide permanent consequences (there is a reason you have to be 18 to enter into a contract).

I apologize for assuming any animus towards transgender people.

I agree about some kids being too young to decide permanent consequence. From my view, young kids aren't ready to make decisions, so they shouldn't have irreversible surgery done on them until they are old enough. For example, my son is 21 now. If he wanted to get circumcised now, that's for sure his choice. I just wasn't going to force that on him as a baby. The same applies to intersex kids.

  Appreciated.   The same applies how?  You are OK with a 10 year old making a life long decision, or you think it is best for the kid to be an adult and be certain (like at age 18) before doing something that can not be undone? 

Shasarak

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Re: What will divide us next?
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2021, 05:16:30 PM »
A Christian church should be protecting children (excepting Catholic church of course), not standing by allowing their parents to ruin their lives.

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