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Author Topic: What's to be done about homelessness?  (Read 22234 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2021, 04:55:18 PM »
Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?
Your own article indicates that sum of money covers a great deal beyond the homeless, like childcare, policing, and low-income housing (not the same as the homeless) among other issues. That makes your math fairly pointless from the start.

Fairly pointless? We've got 34,000 per person per month for exactly that, as I pointed out. Policing isn't a factor because Seattle is "defunding the police", including the Navigation Team.

https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/seattle-to-suspend-homeless-encampment-sweep-team-15612785.php

So, again, what am I missing? Where is all the money going? Why is 6.5 Billion dollars not making a dent in the homeless population?

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/07/02/new-report-shows-homeless-population-was.html#:~:text=Just%20over%2011%2C750%20people%20were,used%20to%20make%20funding%20decisions.
Look at the budget itself for real numbers. It's 800+ pages, but it'll give a more accurate place to start a discussion that what you've pulled out of your ass.

Why so angry? Are you mad at the idea of helping the homeless?

I've shown how housing every homeless person in Seattle is easily within the budget. It's not even half the money. If we're going to do it, let's fucking do it. Get them all an apartment, health care, counciling, etc.
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HappyDaze

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2021, 05:12:15 PM »
Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?
Your own article indicates that sum of money covers a great deal beyond the homeless, like childcare, policing, and low-income housing (not the same as the homeless) among other issues. That makes your math fairly pointless from the start.

Fairly pointless? We've got 34,000 per person per month for exactly that, as I pointed out. Policing isn't a factor because Seattle is "defunding the police", including the Navigation Team.

https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/seattle-to-suspend-homeless-encampment-sweep-team-15612785.php

So, again, what am I missing? Where is all the money going? Why is 6.5 Billion dollars not making a dent in the homeless population?

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/07/02/new-report-shows-homeless-population-was.html#:~:text=Just%20over%2011%2C750%20people%20were,used%20to%20make%20funding%20decisions.
Look at the budget itself for real numbers. It's 800+ pages, but it'll give a more accurate place to start a discussion that what you've pulled out of your ass.

Why so angry? Are you mad at the idea of helping the homeless?

I've shown how housing every homeless person in Seattle is easily within the budget. It's not even half the money. If we're going to do it, let's fucking do it. Get them all an apartment, health care, counciling, etc.
You've shown nothing but a lack of understanding of how many thing the budget is actually spent on in favor of pulling WAGs and using them as the basis of a nonsensical proof.

EDIT: For actual numbers, go to https://openbudget.seattle.gov/#!/year/default and click "explore operating budget." From there, go to "education, health, and human services" and then to "human services." Now you'll see that "addressing homelessness" gets $97.5M. That's quite a bit less than your WAG of $6.5B. You can even finish up at https://openbudget.seattle.gov/#!/year/2020/operating/0/service/Education,+Health+%2526+Human+Services/0/department/Human+Services+Department/0/program/Addressing+Homelessness/0/fund to see how it breaks that value down.

So, did you want to talk with the real numbers, or just the digital fecal smearing of the numbers you've pulled out of your ass?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 06:00:43 PM by HappyDaze »

Bunch

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2021, 06:12:32 PM »
Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?

6.5B is the entire city budget.  It was 3.2B in 2009.  Population has grown from 3.1M in 2009 to 3.6M in 2020.  This is all from quick searches online and may have errors. 

dkabq

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2021, 06:21:46 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person

Pat
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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2021, 06:27:06 PM »
$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
With that kind of money, they could buy each homeless person a single, government-contracted toilet.

HappyDaze

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #95 on: February 20, 2021, 07:52:54 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Ratman_tf

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #96 on: February 20, 2021, 08:03:59 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 08:05:35 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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HappyDaze

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #97 on: February 20, 2021, 09:17:39 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
I told you where to look for the real numbers in my first reply to you. You just doubled down with your bullshit reading and "math" with made up numbers. You're also the one that tried to play the "do you hate the homeless" shit, so don't try to play the victim now motherfucker. Just eat your shame and let it go, because you shit the bed on this one.

dkabq

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #98 on: February 20, 2021, 09:20:43 PM »
$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
With that kind of money, they could buy each homeless person a single, government-contracted toilet.

Actually, a government-contracted toilet costs north of $100K:
https://www.abqjournal.com/1483268/loo-takes-a-seat-in-old-town.html

I think the wind-powered models are less expensive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E92LVCjl_eQ

 :)

Pat
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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2021, 09:30:19 PM »
$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
With that kind of money, they could buy each homeless person a single, government-contracted toilet.

Actually, a government-contracted toilet costs north of $100K:
https://www.abqjournal.com/1483268/loo-takes-a-seat-in-old-town.html

I think the wind-powered models are less expensive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E92LVCjl_eQ

 :)
In the face of the harsh reality of completely justified and unavoidable costs, we might have scale back the planned handouts. We'll have to replace the gift of a toilet to each homeless person with toilet timeshares. Mary'll get May and September, and 6 days in March. David will get November and December, and July 4th.

Ratman_tf

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2021, 09:37:04 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
I told you where to look for the real numbers in my first reply to you. You just doubled down with your bullshit reading and "math" with made up numbers. You're also the one that tried to play the "do you hate the homeless" shit, so don't try to play the victim now motherfucker. Just eat your shame and let it go, because you shit the bed on this one.

Sweetheart, you're the one with a chip on your shoulder and have admitted you're here to troll people, and came at me with your bitterness in your first reply, so don't get comfortable on your high horse.

I asked a question, and even asked if I was getting it right, in the very first post. I don't pretend to know everything and ask when I'm not sure. Thankfully, other posters picked up your slack and actually posted accurate numbers instead of a vague, "Go read this 800 page budget".
« Last Edit: February 20, 2021, 09:38:42 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

HappyDaze

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2021, 11:09:47 PM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
I told you where to look for the real numbers in my first reply to you. You just doubled down with your bullshit reading and "math" with made up numbers. You're also the one that tried to play the "do you hate the homeless" shit, so don't try to play the victim now motherfucker. Just eat your shame and let it go, because you shit the bed on this one.

Sweetheart, you're the one with a chip on your shoulder and have admitted you're here to troll people, and came at me with your bitterness in your first reply, so don't get comfortable on your high horse.

I asked a question, and even asked if I was getting it right, in the very first post. I don't pretend to know everything and ask when I'm not sure. Thankfully, other posters picked up your slack and actually posted accurate numbers instead of a vague, "Go read this 800 page budget".
I posted accurate numbers before they jumped in, but you're the dumbfucker that tried to work a math problem with numbers you didn't even understand.

As for trolling, it's not really trolling when I'm on-topic and providing accurate commentary even if I revel in pointing out your fuck up along the way. But if it makes your butthurt more bearable for you, go ahead and deluxe yourself firther.

Ratman_tf

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #102 on: February 21, 2021, 03:37:20 AM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
I told you where to look for the real numbers in my first reply to you. You just doubled down with your bullshit reading and "math" with made up numbers. You're also the one that tried to play the "do you hate the homeless" shit, so don't try to play the victim now motherfucker. Just eat your shame and let it go, because you shit the bed on this one.

Sweetheart, you're the one with a chip on your shoulder and have admitted you're here to troll people, and came at me with your bitterness in your first reply, so don't get comfortable on your high horse.

I asked a question, and even asked if I was getting it right, in the very first post. I don't pretend to know everything and ask when I'm not sure. Thankfully, other posters picked up your slack and actually posted accurate numbers instead of a vague, "Go read this 800 page budget".
I posted accurate numbers before they jumped in, but you're the dumbfucker that tried to work a math problem with numbers you didn't even understand.

As for trolling, it's not really trolling when I'm on-topic and providing accurate commentary even if I revel in pointing out your fuck up along the way. But if it makes your butthurt more bearable for you, go ahead and deluxe yourself firther.

Point out any mistakes I made besides getting the total city budget confused with the budget for the homeless programs. I was asking honest questions, and you got butthurt and lashed out like a child. We already knew you were a troll and an asshole, no better than the people you complain about. This is just more evidence towards that.
I don't even care about your opinions anymore. I just like to watch you dig your hole deeper. 
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Pat
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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #103 on: February 21, 2021, 05:44:18 AM »

Point out any mistakes I made besides getting the total city budget confused with the budget for the homeless programs. I was asking honest questions, and you got butthurt and lashed out like a child. We already knew you were a troll and an asshole, no better than the people you complain about. This is just more evidence towards that.
I don't even care about your opinions anymore. I just like to watch you dig your hole deeper.
HappyDaze's first reply to you pointed out a lot of things that were included in that xB$ total that didn't belong, in another post specifically told you where to look for the real number, and then in a later post provided the actual numbers. HD does troll, but not in this case. It wasn't particularly polite, but neither is your post.

Bunch

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Re: What's to be done about homelessness?
« Reply #104 on: February 21, 2021, 10:56:14 AM »
Actually, the Seattle 2020 budget was $100M for homeless services out of a $6.5B total budget.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/
"This is the first time Seattle’s budget has cracked the $6 billion mark, and the first time it’s ever included more than $100 million for homeless services."

$100M/11751 homeless persons = $8510/homeless person
Ratman_tf prefers to stick with alternative facts for his proofs.

Wow. You didn't even let me reply before assigning an idea to me that I didn't even say. It's like you're arguing in bad faith to try and get at people instead of trying to discuss an issue. Good job, dickhead. Why didn't you point this out in your first reply? Is it possible you didn't realize it as well?

For everyone else, I stand corrected. I'll happily admit an error as long as it's being pointed out in good faith.
I told you where to look for the real numbers in my first reply to you. You just doubled down with your bullshit reading and "math" with made up numbers. You're also the one that tried to play the "do you hate the homeless" shit, so don't try to play the victim now motherfucker. Just eat your shame and let it go, because you shit the bed on this one.

Sweetheart, you're the one with a chip on your shoulder and have admitted you're here to troll people, and came at me with your bitterness in your first reply, so don't get comfortable on your high horse.

I asked a question, and even asked if I was getting it right, in the very first post. I don't pretend to know everything and ask when I'm not sure. Thankfully, other posters picked up your slack and actually posted accurate numbers instead of a vague, "Go read this 800 page budget".
I posted accurate numbers before they jumped in, but you're the dumbfucker that tried to work a math problem with numbers you didn't even understand.

As for trolling, it's not really trolling when I'm on-topic and providing accurate commentary even if I revel in pointing out your fuck up along the way. But if it makes your butthurt more bearable for you, go ahead and deluxe yourself firther.

Point out any mistakes I made besides getting the total city budget confused with the budget for the homeless programs. I was asking honest questions, and you got butthurt and lashed out like a child. We already knew you were a troll and an asshole, no better than the people you complain about. This is just more evidence towards that.
I don't even care about your opinions anymore. I just like to watch you dig your hole deeper.

To be fair $100M is quite a difference from $6.5B.  it sets your argument off as something not well researched when you start out an order of magnitude off on numbers and confuse a whole city budget with a department sub budget.