What's to be done about homelessness?

[Trond]

The data I managed to find say that substance abuse accounts for about one third of homelessness. Not claiming to be an expert at all, but I thought it would be higher. Does anyone else think that this is under-reporting drug abuse, or would you say this is accurate?

[Bunch]

I believe the don't count alcohol as substance abuse.

[David Johansen]

I'd expect the other 2/3 are insufficient income.

[Bunch]

I was looking at a Seattle report on why people are homeless and the number one claim is loss of job. 

It would be interesting to see how much overlap you have between drug use and homelessness because when I see lose of job I still tend to attribute it to drug use that caused loss of job. I could be totally wrong about that though and I'd like data that could convince me I'm wrong.

[David Johansen]

I work with a guy who's a fairly heavy drug user.  He shows up on time, he gets the job done, and he's fun to work with.  My brother's in IT and he swears there's this one guy who drinks like a fish, picks up hookers, and still gets more work done than anyone.

The drugs can be a problem but the real problem is something else.  A philosophy or outlook, selfishness and laziness excused by defeatism, perhaps, job loss and homelessness are more complex than a single issue.

On the other hand, mental health issues and physical disabilities are also factors.

The psychotic (in the sense of flipped out and hallucinating) homeless lady who wandered into my shop a couple months ago, really shifted my perspective when she asked how I could be so selfish.  I mean really, how could I not allow her to steal or destroy everything I've worked for and made sacrifices to have so she can sit around and do drugs all day?

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Hmmm. 30% homeless rate due to drugs? Substance abuse--alcohol and drugs alike--I'd say is involved with at least 50% of homeless people. Probably closer to the 75-80% range. The incidence of impoverished and homeless Veterans is real, and the homeless, unemployed family man, hard-working and innocent, while legitimate and sympathetic, are a distinct minority of the problem. "Loss of Jobs"--yeah, many of these people lose their jobs because they are fucking drug addicts and alcoholics. Their involvement with drugs and alcohol flows into a whole mind-set and attitude of narcissism, self-indulgence, and irresponsibility. Which comes first? The fucked up, shitty attitude of entitlement, laziness, and irresponsibility, or being a drug addict? Who knows? It ultimately doesn't matter which comes first--they both are intertwined. Drugs and alcohol abuse and addiction also contributes to a chaos-filled social and family life in a disastrous and comprehensive manner. Drug and alcohol addiction ruins people's lives. The people that want to soft-peddle drug and alcohol abuse are fools. I don't care if someone knows a friend of a friend who snorts coke every week and keeps a job just fine, blah, blah, blah. The vast majority of people that get involved with drug and alcohol addiction open up a world of chaos and hell, for themselves, their families, and everyone around them.

My own sister-in-law became a homeless drug addict. I have also unfortunately known many people and their families, as well as people I have met through work that have been homeless, or impoverished and living lives of absolute ruin because of drug addiction and alcohol addiction. My girlfriend is a professional counselor that works for the government, where she deals with adolescents and adults that have drug and alcohol addictions. The vast majority of them have lives that are utter chaos and ruin, from start to finish. It isn't surprising that the majority of addicts become unemployed and homeless, because they become entirely dysfunctional. They live for their addiction, and nothing else matters. Eventually, many drug addicts and alcoholics become so damaged physiologically, mentally and emotionally, they are fucked for life, unemployable, and chronically dysfunctional on nearly every level and aspect of life.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[HappyDaze]

https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/homelessness/
Estimates from this source are that 38% of homeless are addicted to alcohol and 26% to other substances. It also repeats the idea that 33% are mentally ill. The categories are not exclusive, and with that in mind, the majority of the homeless are neither addicts nor mentally ill.

[Bunch]

I see where you can't add the numbers up due to co-occurrence of each but I don't see where they say the majority aren't (addicted to something/mentally ill).  It might be true. Of my friends who have been homeless one was just lazy and kept getting kicked out of houses for being a mooch. One was a teenager girl whos mom's boyfriend was too handsy and mom wouldn't do anything about it. One was an undiagnosed bipolar disorder abusing cocaine and alcohol to treat it.  He cleaned up but he's still incapable of holding down a job due to his illness.  Sad because he is immensely bright but any stress and he spirals down. 

[HappyDaze]

I see where you can't add the numbers up due to co-occurrence of each but I don't see where they say the majority aren't (addicted to something/mentally ill).  It might be true. Of my friends who have been homeless one was just lazy and kept getting kicked out of houses for being a mooch. One was a teenager girl whos mom's boyfriend was too handsy and mom wouldn't do anything about it. One was an undiagnosed bipolar disorder abusing cocaine and alcohol to treat it.  He cleaned up but he's still incapable of holding down a job due to his illness.  Sad because he is immensely bright but any stress and he spirals down.

It can also vary depending on how you classify "homeless" as it may or may not include those living out of a vehicle, perpetual couch-surfers drifitng from one friend's home to another, and those living out of short-term housing (like motels). Not all that are homeless truly lack for a roof over their heads.

[Ratman_tf]

Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?

[HappyDaze]

Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?

Your own article indicates that sum of money covers a great deal beyond the homeless, like childcare, policing, and low-income housing (not the same as the homeless) among other issues. That makes your math fairly pointless from the start.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Well, fuck the "studies". My lived experience dealing with many homeless people first hand has demonstrated to me that a distinct majority of homeless people are very much drug and alcohol addicts. Not all of them, certainly, but a majority. Mentally ill people make up a large component of the homeless population as well.

Capable, mature, functioning, and responsible people typically don't become homeless, and when they do, they don't remain homeless for long.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[HappyDaze]

Greetings!

Well, fuck the "studies". My lived experience dealing with many homeless people first hand has demonstrated to me that a distinct majority of homeless people are very much drug and alcohol addicts. Not all of them, certainly, but a majority. Mentally ill people make up a large component of the homeless population as well.

Capable, mature, functioning, and responsible people typically don't become homeless, and when they do, they don't remain homeless for long.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

As usual, SHARK is playing his role as a bombastic dumbass to the fullest.

If we want to go with lived experiences,  I can say that I've seen many homeless individuals spend time in mental health centers when the temperature drops. Yes, they are "crazy" enough to play the system for a warm, dry place to sleep and hot meals for a few days because the system holds them for 72h if they claim suicidal ideation.

[Ratman_tf]

Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?

Your own article indicates that sum of money covers a great deal beyond the homeless, like childcare, policing, and low-income housing (not the same as the homeless) among other issues. That makes your math fairly pointless from the start.

Fairly pointless? We've got 34,000 per person per month for exactly that, as I pointed out. Policing isn't a factor because Seattle is "defunding the police", including the Navigation Team.

https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/seattle-to-suspend-homeless-encampment-sweep-team-15612785.php

So, again, what am I missing? Where is all the money going? Why is 6.5 Billion dollars not making a dent in the homeless population?

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/07/02/new-report-shows-homeless-population-was.html#:~:text=Just%20over%2011%2C750%20people%20were,used%20to%20make%20funding%20decisions.

[HappyDaze]

Let's do some napkin math.

Here in Seattle, there are an estimated 11,751 homeless people.

https://www.kingcounty.gov/elected/executive/constantine/news/release/2020/July/01-homeless-count.aspx#:~:text=King%20County%20Executive%20Dow%20Constantine%20and%20Seattle%20Mayor%20Jenny%20Durkan,11%2C751%20people%20experiencing%20homelessness%20countywide.

The 2020 budget for the homeless issue was 6.5 Billion dollars.

https://mynorthwest.com/1615977/seattle-city-council-budget-2020/?

I don't know administration costs, so let's say 20%.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/percentage-budget-should-administration-10342.html

That leaves 5.2 Billion dollars.

5.2 Billion divided by 11,751 homeless people = 442,000. (I'm going to start rounding off)

442,000 dollars per person per year divided by 12 = 36,000 per person per month.

Average rent for a one person apartment in Seattle is 1,933 per month.

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/wa/seattle/

That leaves 34,000 per person per month for addiction treatment, clothes, food, toys for kids, health care maybe some entertainment money...
Am I missing something?

Your own article indicates that sum of money covers a great deal beyond the homeless, like childcare, policing, and low-income housing (not the same as the homeless) among other issues. That makes your math fairly pointless from the start.

Fairly pointless? We've got 34,000 per person per month for exactly that, as I pointed out. Policing isn't a factor because Seattle is "defunding the police", including the Navigation Team.

https://www.seattlepi.com/seattlenews/article/seattle-to-suspend-homeless-encampment-sweep-team-15612785.php

So, again, what am I missing? Where is all the money going? Why is 6.5 Billion dollars not making a dent in the homeless population?

https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2020/07/02/new-report-shows-homeless-population-was.html#:~:text=Just%20over%2011%2C750%20people%20were,used%20to%20make%20funding%20decisions.

Look at the budget itself for real numbers. It's 800+ pages, but it'll give a more accurate place to start a discussion that what you've pulled out of your ass.