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Wait, What Controversy about Pundit and Zak?

Started by Mistwell, July 07, 2014, 02:16:55 PM

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James Gillen

#30
July 08, 2014, 03:51:39 AM
Quote from: Piestrio;765605And they have literal MOUNTAINS of evidence.

Just tons of the stuff.

They are drowning in examples.

But you can't see any of it. And it's not available to other people looking into it.

Because reasons.

And feels.

Look up the phrase "argument from intimidation."

JG
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur

Imperator

#31
July 08, 2014, 06:43:39 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;765744Pundit was a pretty big cock on a few boards before he set this place up.

The great thing about this place is that i can say that about him and in fact be one of his moderators.
That is the truth.
Quote from: Piestrio;765781As someone who has identified as a Marxist (and been called one numerous times) just let me say that so-called "Cultural Marxism" is partly responsible for the subversion of actual Marxism and thus the breakdown of the left as a force for workers.
Sir, I salute you as a fellow Marxist.
My name is Ramón Nogueras. Running now Vampire: the Masquerade (Giovanni Chronicles IV for just 3 players), and itching to resume my Call of Cthulhu campaign (The Sense of the Sleight-of-Hand Man).

thedungeondelver

#32
July 08, 2014, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: dragoner;765602The Purple Taliban are off on a crusade, it's what they do.

Somethingawful have picked up the banner, too; their precious little "grognards.txt" twitter feed :
https://twitter.com/grognardsTXT/status/484815456000167936
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Necrozius

#33
July 08, 2014, 11:31:47 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;765987Somethingawful have picked up the banner, too; their precious little "grognards.txt" twitter feed :
https://twitter.com/grognardsTXT/status/484815456000167936

Some of their posters are sort of backpedaling in a "hey hey! We NEVER tried to tell people NOT to buy 5e! We only told people how awful WoTC coast are for hiring certain people and why that is reason enough to boycott the game!".

Pretty hilarious and pathetic.

dragoner

#34
July 08, 2014, 11:36:46 AM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;765987Somethingawful have picked up the banner, too; their precious little "grognards.txt" twitter feed :
https://twitter.com/grognardsTXT/status/484815456000167936

Riders of the Purple Patriarchy I see. A bunch of white guys arguing over D&D, and this is why we can't have nice stuff, pretty much.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

Omnifray

#35
July 08, 2014, 11:42:42 AM
Quote from: robiswrong;765600Pundit is transphobic (I don't think he got hit with the misogynist label)

Is there any evidence for this assertion?

I have never seen any evidence of Pundit being anything other than tolerant with regard to social minorities. With regard to hippy indie storygamers, on the other hand, I refer to his stickied thread on the definition of what he is pleased to call "Swine"...
I did not write this but would like to mention it:-
http://jimboboz.livejournal.com/7305.html

I did however write this Player\'s Quickstarter for the forthcoming Soul\'s Calling RPG, free to download here, and a bunch of other Soul\'s Calling stuff available via Lulu.

As for this, I can\'t comment one way or the other on the correctness of the factual assertions made, but it makes for chilling reading:-
http://home.roadrunner.com/~b.gleichman/Theory/Threefold/GNS.htm

Necrozius

#36
July 08, 2014, 11:43:24 AM
At what point does this stuff become slander?

dragoner

#37
July 08, 2014, 11:50:22 AM
Quote from: Necrozius;765998At what point does this stuff become slander?


When he can show potential damages. So technically, suing SA & tbp would work, maybe.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

Sacrosanct

#38
July 08, 2014, 11:53:22 AM
Quote from: Necrozius;765998At what point does this stuff become slander?

I would imagine when you can prove damages.  If that's the case, good job RPG.net, because it's not only random posters who have made libelous claims, but the staff as well.  That makes you as a company potentially liable as a direct defendant, if I'm not mistaken.


If it is in fact proven to be slander anyway...
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

thedungeondelver

#39
July 08, 2014, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: dragoner;766002When he can show potential damages. So technically, suing SA & tbp would work, maybe.

Not hardly; SA's game (both the front-page style and forums) is mocking things on the internet and starting crusades against Wrongthink.  I think the one body that made them slightly alter content were Scientologists.

Now, if WotC decided that the Twitter feed was damaging or derailing to themselves, they have Hasbro's backing and I'd wager that shit would come down in a heartbeat, but, of course, IANAL...
THE DELVERS DUNGEON


Mcbobbo sums it up nicely.

Quote
Astrophysicists are reassessing Einsteinian relativity because the 28 billion l

Omnifray

#40
July 08, 2014, 11:56:45 AM Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 12:03:06 PM by Omnifray
Quote from: Necrozius;765998At what point does this stuff become slander?

Probably when you say it and can't prove it (on the balance of probabilities).

At the moment, written on the Internet, it's probably actionable libel unless it can be proven to be true.

Depending on which jurisdiction you're in, what law applies and what evidence and arguments you can present, of course.

If memory serves, you don't even have to prove actual loss to get damages for libel in some jurisdictions (but seek specialist advice if this may be relevant to you; I am not a defamation lawyer and I do not assume responsibility for the accuracy of my speculative statements about the law posted online - also, answers may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction).

I would hope, though, that everyone can be sensible and grown up about this and resolve it without recourse to the courts.
I did not write this but would like to mention it:-
http://jimboboz.livejournal.com/7305.html

I did however write this Player\'s Quickstarter for the forthcoming Soul\'s Calling RPG, free to download here, and a bunch of other Soul\'s Calling stuff available via Lulu.

As for this, I can\'t comment one way or the other on the correctness of the factual assertions made, but it makes for chilling reading:-
http://home.roadrunner.com/~b.gleichman/Theory/Threefold/GNS.htm

robiswrong

#41
July 08, 2014, 11:57:44 AM
Quote from: Omnifray;765997Is there any evidence for this assertion?

Not that I've seen.  

To be clear, I'm not saying that Pundit's transphobic (I've seen zero evidence of this).  I'm just clarifying the scope of what some people are accusing him of.

You know, so we can talk about the actual thing.  Which is how unfounded these accusations are.

Rincewind1

#42
July 08, 2014, 11:57:49 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;766003If it is in fact proven to be slander anyway...

Or does it? If you own a website, what'd you prefer - purge the unpaid volunteer staff for which every spot there are 10 no lifes waiting, or risk loosing a slander lawsuit?

Quote from: Omnifray;765997Is there any evidence for this assertion?

I have never seen any evidence of Pundit being anything other than tolerant with regard to social minorities. With regard to hippy indie storygamers, on the other hand, I refer to his stickied thread on the definition of what he is pleased to call "Swine"...

He was giving an example of slander against him.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

dragoner

#43
July 08, 2014, 12:04:22 PM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;766004Not hardly; SA's game (both the front-page style and forums) is mocking things on the internet and starting crusades against Wrongthink.  I think the one body that made them slightly alter content were Scientologists.

Now, if WotC decided that the Twitter feed was damaging or derailing to themselves, they have Hasbro's backing and I'd wager that shit would come down in a heartbeat, but, of course, IANAL...

Note maybe, but Hasbro and Pundit can partner; then sue everybody. So that if Hasbro might lose, Pundit can use their legal team and still, collect their legal fees for them; that is why there are suits for a dollar.

But this is idle speculation.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

One Horse Town

#44
July 08, 2014, 12:05:42 PM
Quote from: Necrozius;765991Some of their posters are sort of backpedaling in a "hey hey! We NEVER tried to tell people NOT to buy 5e! We only told people how awful WoTC coast are for hiring certain people and why that is reason enough to boycott the game!".

Pretty hilarious and pathetic.

There seem to be 3 factions at work for the same ends.

1. People who genuinely have faced persecution for their orientation/sex/race and unfortunately seem to have been scarred by it.

2. A bunch of people who either Pundit or Zak have pissed off. Glomming onto faction 1 is an effective way for this lot to get revenge for slights.

3. This does actually seem to be a thing that i've seen the last 2 years. Lots of the people from group 2 above also seem to really dislike 5e and the decisions behind it. So i think for these guys, harming 5e and zak/pundit is killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Stir and yo've got internet drama of the highest order with some of the participants having very murky motives indeed.
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