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Author Topic: Vote by mail  (Read 435 times)

jhkim

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« on: June 30, 2020, 12:39:19 am »
From Post #250 in the civil war thread,

Quote from: jhkim
There are both left-wing and right-wing democracies, and there are both left-wing and right-wing authoritarian states. Most of Europe is left-wing compared to the U.S., for example, but are not authoritarian states like Chavez. The simple answer is: follow the rule of democracy.

Quote from: SHARK;1137046
Right, Jhkim. Democracy. However, the Marxists have been seizing the machinery that controls the "Democracy". The Leftist politicians--the Democrats--have already admitted to how they are going to change the entire system to ensure Leftist political rule in America. Ever heard of their desire to get rid of the Electoral College? How about mass "Mail in Voting"? Both such measures and MORE--are precisely designed to secure political power for Leftists--and in that process, kill our democracy.

"Voting" will be entirely irrelevant, and merely a charade.

OK, this is one of those that I find strange. Every state in the union allows some form of vote-by-mail -- independently approved by each state government. It's been going on for decades. President Trump himself votes by mail - as confirmed by the White House in 2018,

Quote
President Trump and first lady Melania Trump have cast their ballots in the 2018 midterm elections.
 
A White House spokesperson said Friday that both Trumps voted by absentee ballot in New York "a few weeks ago." That means they will not have to travel to the state, where they are registered to vote, to cast a ballot in person.

Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/414549-trump-first-lady-cast-votes-by-absentee-ballot-for-midterms

Among the U.S. states that freely allow vote by mail are Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, and many of other Republican-dominated states. It's also used in many other First-World countries. Switzerland has 90% of its votes cast as vote-by-mail.

I'm not even especially arguing in favor of vote-by-mail. Personally, I vote by mail myself and I like it. However, even if you're opposed to it, it's not some sort of shadowy liberal conspiracy to destroy our way of life. Among other things, it's been passed publicly by many Republican-dominated state governments for years. In 2016, Republican Lieutenant Governor Spencer Cox of Utah credited vote-by-mail with the state's high turnout.

Quote
Cox credited this year's higher turnout to two main factors: presidential candidates paying more attention to the state and greater use of by-mail voting.
(...)
Cox noted that 21 of Utah's 29 counties voted by mail this year. Every one of the by-mail counties achieved higher voter turnout than the eight counties that used only traditional in-person voting on Election Day.
(...)
Besides boosting turnout, Cox said by-mail voting also appeared to improve voter education "because they actually have the ballot, and they have the opportunity to research what is on the ballot -- instead of just getting in the ballot booth and finding out there are three constitutional amendments they had never heard of."

Cox noted that the Legislature ordered his office to study by-mail voting, including whether it should continue or how it should be improved.

Source: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4645875&itype=CMSID

As far as security goes, I'm more concerned over electronic voting machines than vote-by-mail. The key is having a confirmable record. In any paper ballot, if authorities suspect some sort of fraud, they can look over the physical evidence. There are records of who voted, and you can go to the supposed voters and confirm that they voted when and where they were recorded as having done so. If someone has committed fraud, it is traceable. I support investigating to find more cases of fraud. If there really are millions of fraudulent votes being cast, then we should be able to catch and prosecute at least a few hundred of them.

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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 06:41:06 am »
There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.
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moonsweeper

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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2020, 07:00:16 am »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137134
There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.


It's not like the side being accused of abusing vote-by-mail is filing lawsuits to prevent the updating of those voter rolls or anything like that.

...Oh wait...
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oggsmash

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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2020, 09:23:00 am »
Absentee ballot and voting by mail as is being suggested (already ballots have been mailed to wrong address) are not the same thing.  Electronic voting machines should not exist.  Go vote in person.  Show ID.  Not exactly rocket science.  voting should be one or two days,  if inconvenient or crowded so whble at.  Make it a national holiday.  I have to sit in traffic for hours because of a peaceful protest blocking a highway, but it in an infringement to stand in line for a while to do the one thing that casts an illusion as to having some control of the government that makes decisions that impact my life?  

    Some differences can never be reconciled.  Smart people avoid those.  Foolish ones push them and then you get a fight.  Pushing widespread mail in voting is going to get a fight.

SHARK

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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2020, 01:38:49 pm »
Greetings!

Indeed. All of these Democrats crying constantly about "Voter Suppression" and whine, whine, whine. It's all such bullshit, designed to give them pretext to fuck with the voting system, to rig it in their favour. Like Ogg said, what the fuck is so difficult about voting?

You go down to a local church or senior center, or community center, show them your identification, and then step into the little booth, and fill out the voting ballot. DONE.

I've been doing this in every election for many years. It isn't fucking rocket science.

As for "Mail In Voting" I also noted that the NYT--a Liberal newspaper--wrote after conducting investigations and research that "Mail In Voting" was entirely plagued with fraud and problems. That was in 2012, by a Liberal journalist.

Now, though, in 2020, when the Democrats believe that they can use Mail In Voting to rig fuck the election in their favour--they are all for Mail In Voting. As I also noted, present allowances for Mail In Voting are limited, and do not comprise a large segment of our voting process.

Fuck Mail In Voting. You need to show the fuck up, in person, with your fucking identification, and vote!

Semper Fidelis,

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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 08:35:33 pm »
There is no way anyone can trust the voting process now. November will be a shitshow.

Whether Stalin said it or not, it's still true. It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the vote.

The "safest" vote is still in person, but without Voter ID, "safest" doesn't mean much.

jhkim

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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2020, 08:40:24 pm »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137134
There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.
This doesn't make sense to me. In *every* system, you need to provide proof of identity in order to register and thus get onto the voter rolls. But once you're on the rolls and registered as vote by mail, then you get your ballot in the mail -- what you call blindly. In all of the states that I know of, once you're on the rolls, you generally are not kicked off of them except by specific action. That's just as true in Utah as in California.

Among the states, the two main differences I know are: (1) whether you are required to declare an excuse in order to register to vote by mail - required by 17 states; and (2) whether you are registered to vote by mail by default, like in Utah and I think five other states.

And again, I'm not even arguing that it has to be this way. But it's not something new, and historically, it has not been a Democrat vs Republican issue. Lots of Republican-controlled states like Utah have been doing vote-by-mail for many years.

Shasarak

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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2020, 10:06:03 pm »
If you had a chance to vote and stop literal Hitler from coming to power then that sounds like it would be worth making the effort to go and vote in person to me.
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2020, 10:28:18 pm »
This is why people don't trust mail-in ballots: https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161

That's a YouTuber by the name of Tim Pool who had a mail-in ballot (the actual ballot, not an application) for someone else sent to him. If you read the comments, you'll see that there are a number of other people reporting similar events or the opposite--they know someone whose ballot went missing.

SHARK

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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 11:52:36 pm »
Greetings!

Here is Tucker Carlson discussing voting, elections, Democrats efforts to corrupt our election system, and more.



Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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KingCheops

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« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 12:44:03 pm »
Quote from: Brand55;1137312
This is why people don't trust mail-in ballots: https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161

That's a YouTuber by the name of Tim Pool who had a mail-in ballot (the actual ballot, not an application) for someone else sent to him. If you read the comments, you'll see that there are a number of other people reporting similar events or the opposite--they know someone whose ballot went missing.

I had to call Elections Canada 2 elections in a row before they finally removed someone from our address that I'd never heard of before in my life.  Not that many people are that anal.

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« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2020, 12:54:00 pm »
In racist México we've had a voting ID (as in a special ID to vote) for decades now, how come the most powerful nation in the world doesn't? And we have a few million Mexicans that only speak their tongue, live in the fucking mountains, jungle (quasi jungle), or just in remote as fuck places. If they can walk miles to get the ID once every few elections everybody in the USA should be able to walk a few blocks to do so.

Here voting is always on sunday, and if you work that day they have to give you the time to go vote.

I find it fascinating that Democrats oppose voter ID laws.
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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2020, 01:53:40 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1137098
As far as security goes, I'm more concerned over electronic voting machines than vote-by-mail. The key is having a confirmable record. In any paper ballot, if authorities suspect some sort of fraud, they can look over the physical evidence. There are records of who voted, and you can go to the supposed voters and confirm that they voted when and where they were recorded as having done so. If someone has committed fraud, it is traceable. I support investigating to find more cases of fraud. If there really are millions of fraudulent votes being cast, then we should be able to catch and prosecute at least a few hundred of them.


We've had it in Oregon for a long time, and I admit I really like the convenience. I just drop my vote off at a box at a local library.

However I am very aware that there is a significant opportunity for fraud, and I do not think it is being traced or accounted for. I know this, because I have heard directly from people that have done it, and its a big one: voting on behalf of senior citizens. Some people are filling in the voting cards for seniors in their care and applying their own form of persuasion to get them to vote a certain way.

Another issue is that there are people that go to people's homes and pick up ballots. In Portland, there have been city staff that have asked for volunteers to go door to door to pick up ballots - coming from a supervisor, what does this mean? In some cases, they wait as people fill them in (who knows about the pressure from that?). In one recent election, some of these gatherers abandoned boxes of ballots. When caught, there was much push back (guess by what political party) to minimize the fines for doing this.

As much as I like the convenience, the security is a joke, and whomever is in power has a significant advantage.
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jhkim

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« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2020, 02:14:27 pm »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1137759
In racist México we've had a voting ID (as in a special ID to vote) for decades now, how come the most powerful nation in the world doesn't? And we have a few million Mexicans that only speak their tongue, live in the fucking mountains, jungle (quasi jungle), or just in remote as fuck places. If they can walk miles to get the ID once every few elections everybody in the USA should be able to walk a few blocks to do so.

Here voting is always on sunday, and if you work that day they have to give you the time to go vote.

I find it fascinating that Democrats oppose voter ID laws.
Geeky - my understanding is that all citizens get their voting ID for free in Mexico. Is that correct? So people in remote places have to walk to a local center, but it's issued to them without them having to pay. Is there bureaucracy to navigate to correctly apply for the ID? Or is it automatic with registering to vote?

The U.S. doesn't have a national ID system, and you generally have to pay to get a state ID that can be used for voter ID laws. So a bunch of people feel like many state voter ID laws create an extra bureaucratic hurdle for those who don't have an existing ID -- which is a small subset of poor people who are either young (18-22ish) or past retirement. If everyone had a free national voting ID issued, that would address a lot of the complaints people have about the unequal barrier.

A related issue is how U.S. voting is on a Tuesday -- and some people are pushing to make it a national holiday so everyone has equal time to get to the polls.

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« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2020, 02:27:47 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1137765
Geeky - my understanding is that all citizens get their voting ID for free in Mexico. Is that correct? So people in remote places have to walk to a local center, but it's issued to them without them having to pay. Is there bureaucracy to navigate to correctly apply for the ID? Or is it automatic with registering to vote?

The U.S. doesn't have a national ID system, and you generally have to pay to get a state ID that can be used for voter ID laws. So a bunch of people feel like many state voter ID laws create an extra bureaucratic hurdle for those who don't have an existing ID -- which is a small subset of poor people who are either young (18-22ish) or past retirement. If everyone had a free national voting ID issued, that would address a lot of the complaints people have about the unequal barrier.

A related issue is how U.S. voting is on a Tuesday -- and some people are pushing to make it a national holiday so everyone has equal time to get to the polls.

Yes, it is "free". No, no extra bureaucratic hurdles, you apply to get your ID/Vote in one single day one single document. You get registered and you have to go back to pick up your ID at a latter date.

Only other bureaucratic hurdle would be to make sure you ARE in the voting lists. But this is done near the elections, not sure how it works in remote as fuck places.

Dude, if only you stopped giving illegal immigrants driving licenses (assuming your licenses are forgery proof), you wouldn't need an extra ID. But that has a cost even here. I mean a not hidden away cost as with our voter IDs that are "free".

But, I haven't heard the argument to make them free, I have heard the argument that wanting them is racist. I bet even republicans would be okay to pay for it via taxes if it was implemented.

Edited to add:

You need an ID to change checks, buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc. make this ID the voter ID, make it so only this ID works for buying alcohol, weed tobacco, etc. only ID banks can accept to cash your check, open an account, etc.Only ID accepted to get government benefits.

Wanna see people rush to get it?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 02:31:13 pm by GeekyBugle »
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