From
Post #250 (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42174-It-s-time-for-the-USA-to-balkanize-How-can-that-happen-peacefully&p=1137046&viewfull=1#post1137046) in the civil war thread,
Quote from: jhkimThere are both left-wing and right-wing democracies, and there are both left-wing and right-wing authoritarian states. Most of Europe is left-wing compared to the U.S., for example, but are not authoritarian states like Chavez. The simple answer is: follow the rule of democracy.
Quote from: SHARK;1137046Right, Jhkim. Democracy. However, the Marxists have been seizing the machinery that controls the "Democracy". The Leftist politicians--the Democrats--have already admitted to how they are going to change the entire system to ensure Leftist political rule in America. Ever heard of their desire to get rid of the Electoral College? How about mass "Mail in Voting"? Both such measures and MORE--are precisely designed to secure political power for Leftists--and in that process, kill our democracy.
"Voting" will be entirely irrelevant, and merely a charade.
OK, this is one of those that I find strange. Every state in the union allows some form of vote-by-mail -- independently approved by each state government. It's been going on for decades. President Trump himself votes by mail - as confirmed by the White House in 2018,
QuotePresident Trump and first lady Melania Trump have cast their ballots in the 2018 midterm elections.
A White House spokesperson said Friday that both Trumps voted by absentee ballot in New York "a few weeks ago." That means they will not have to travel to the state, where they are registered to vote, to cast a ballot in person.
Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/414549-trump-first-lady-cast-votes-by-absentee-ballot-for-midterms
Among the U.S. states that freely allow vote by mail are Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, and many of other Republican-dominated states. It's also used in many other First-World countries. Switzerland has 90% of its votes cast as vote-by-mail.
I'm not even especially arguing in favor of vote-by-mail. Personally, I vote by mail myself and I like it. However, even if you're opposed to it, it's not some sort of shadowy liberal conspiracy to destroy our way of life. Among other things, it's been passed publicly by many Republican-dominated state governments for years. In 2016, Republican Lieutenant Governor Spencer Cox of Utah credited vote-by-mail with the state's high turnout.
QuoteCox credited this year's higher turnout to two main factors: presidential candidates paying more attention to the state and greater use of by-mail voting.
(...)
Cox noted that 21 of Utah's 29 counties voted by mail this year. Every one of the by-mail counties achieved higher voter turnout than the eight counties that used only traditional in-person voting on Election Day.
(...)
Besides boosting turnout, Cox said by-mail voting also appeared to improve voter education "because they actually have the ballot, and they have the opportunity to research what is on the ballot -- instead of just getting in the ballot booth and finding out there are three constitutional amendments they had never heard of."
Cox noted that the Legislature ordered his office to study by-mail voting, including whether it should continue or how it should be improved.
Source: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4645875&itype=CMSID
As far as security goes, I'm more concerned over electronic voting machines than vote-by-mail. The key is having a confirmable record. In any paper ballot, if authorities suspect some sort of fraud, they can look over the physical evidence. There are records of who voted, and you can go to the supposed voters and confirm that they voted when and where they were recorded as having done so. If someone has committed fraud, it is traceable. I support investigating to find more cases of fraud. If there really are millions of fraudulent votes being cast, then we should be able to catch and prosecute at least a few hundred of them.
There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137134There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.
It's not like the side being accused of abusing vote-by-mail is filing lawsuits to prevent the updating of those voter rolls or anything like that.
...Oh wait...
Absentee ballot and voting by mail as is being suggested (already ballots have been mailed to wrong address) are not the same thing. Electronic voting machines should not exist. Go vote in person. Show ID. Not exactly rocket science. voting should be one or two days, if inconvenient or crowded so whble at. Make it a national holiday. I have to sit in traffic for hours because of a peaceful protest blocking a highway, but it in an infringement to stand in line for a while to do the one thing that casts an illusion as to having some control of the government that makes decisions that impact my life?
Some differences can never be reconciled. Smart people avoid those. Foolish ones push them and then you get a fight. Pushing widespread mail in voting is going to get a fight.
Greetings!
Indeed. All of these Democrats crying constantly about "Voter Suppression" and whine, whine, whine. It's all such bullshit, designed to give them pretext to fuck with the voting system, to rig it in their favour. Like Ogg said, what the fuck is so difficult about voting?
You go down to a local church or senior center, or community center, show them your identification, and then step into the little booth, and fill out the voting ballot. DONE.
I've been doing this in every election for many years. It isn't fucking rocket science.
As for "Mail In Voting" I also noted that the NYT--a Liberal newspaper--wrote after conducting investigations and research that "Mail In Voting" was entirely plagued with fraud and problems. That was in 2012, by a Liberal journalist.
Now, though, in 2020, when the Democrats believe that they can use Mail In Voting to rig fuck the election in their favour--they are all for Mail In Voting. As I also noted, present allowances for Mail In Voting are limited, and do not comprise a large segment of our voting process.
Fuck Mail In Voting. You need to show the fuck up, in person, with your fucking identification, and vote!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
There is no way anyone can trust the voting process now. November will be a shitshow.
Whether Stalin said it or not, it's still true. It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the vote.
The "safest" vote is still in person, but without Voter ID, "safest" doesn't mean much.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1137134There's a big difference between an absentee ballot that has certain safeguards, or any other system that you need to in some way register for or provide proof of identity, and the blind mailing-out of pre-prepared ballots to whatever addresses were once listed on rarely-updated voter rolls. That anyone could intercept, fill, and mass-vote with.
This doesn't make sense to me. In *every* system, you need to provide proof of identity in order to register and thus get onto the voter rolls. But once you're on the rolls and registered as vote by mail, then you get your ballot in the mail -- what you call blindly. In all of the states that I know of, once you're on the rolls, you generally are not kicked off of them except by specific action. That's just as true in Utah as in California.
Among the states, the two main differences I know are: (1) whether you are required to declare an excuse in order to register to vote by mail - required by 17 states; and (2) whether you are registered to vote by mail by default, like in Utah and I think five other states.
And again, I'm not even arguing that it has to be this way. But it's not something new, and historically, it has not been a Democrat vs Republican issue. Lots of Republican-controlled states like Utah have been doing vote-by-mail for many years.
If you had a chance to vote and stop literal Hitler from coming to power then that sounds like it would be worth making the effort to go and vote in person to me.
This is why people don't trust mail-in ballots: https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161 (https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161)
That's a YouTuber by the name of Tim Pool who had a mail-in ballot (the actual ballot, not an application) for someone else sent to him. If you read the comments, you'll see that there are a number of other people reporting similar events or the opposite--they know someone whose ballot went missing.
Greetings!
Here is Tucker Carlson discussing voting, elections, Democrats efforts to corrupt our election system, and more.
[video=youtube;NS-bsetu01w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS-bsetu01w[/youtube]
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Brand55;1137312This is why people don't trust mail-in ballots: https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161 (https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1277559208427356161)
That's a YouTuber by the name of Tim Pool who had a mail-in ballot (the actual ballot, not an application) for someone else sent to him. If you read the comments, you'll see that there are a number of other people reporting similar events or the opposite--they know someone whose ballot went missing.
I had to call Elections Canada 2 elections in a row before they finally removed someone from our address that I'd never heard of before in my life. Not that many people are that anal.
In racist México we've had a voting ID (as in a special ID to vote) for decades now, how come the most powerful nation in the world doesn't? And we have a few million Mexicans that only speak their tongue, live in the fucking mountains, jungle (quasi jungle), or just in remote as fuck places. If they can walk miles to get the ID once every few elections everybody in the USA should be able to walk a few blocks to do so.
Here voting is always on sunday, and if you work that day they have to give you the time to go vote.
I find it fascinating that Democrats oppose voter ID laws.
Quote from: jhkim;1137098As far as security goes, I'm more concerned over electronic voting machines than vote-by-mail. The key is having a confirmable record. In any paper ballot, if authorities suspect some sort of fraud, they can look over the physical evidence. There are records of who voted, and you can go to the supposed voters and confirm that they voted when and where they were recorded as having done so. If someone has committed fraud, it is traceable. I support investigating to find more cases of fraud. If there really are millions of fraudulent votes being cast, then we should be able to catch and prosecute at least a few hundred of them.
We've had it in Oregon for a long time, and I admit I really like the convenience. I just drop my vote off at a box at a local library.
However I am very aware that there is a significant opportunity for fraud, and I do not think it is being traced or accounted for. I know this, because I have heard directly from people that have done it, and its a big one: voting on behalf of senior citizens. Some people are filling in the voting cards for seniors in their care and applying their own form of persuasion to get them to vote a certain way.
Another issue is that there are people that go to people's homes and pick up ballots. In Portland, there have been city staff that have asked for volunteers to go door to door to pick up ballots - coming from a supervisor, what does this mean? In some cases, they wait as people fill them in (who knows about the pressure from that?). In one recent election, some of these gatherers abandoned boxes of ballots. When caught, there was much push back (guess by what political party) to minimize the fines for doing this.
As much as I like the convenience, the security is a joke, and whomever is in power has a significant advantage.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1137759In racist México we've had a voting ID (as in a special ID to vote) for decades now, how come the most powerful nation in the world doesn't? And we have a few million Mexicans that only speak their tongue, live in the fucking mountains, jungle (quasi jungle), or just in remote as fuck places. If they can walk miles to get the ID once every few elections everybody in the USA should be able to walk a few blocks to do so.
Here voting is always on sunday, and if you work that day they have to give you the time to go vote.
I find it fascinating that Democrats oppose voter ID laws.
Geeky - my understanding is that all citizens get their voting ID for free in Mexico. Is that correct? So people in remote places have to walk to a local center, but it's issued to them without them having to pay. Is there bureaucracy to navigate to correctly apply for the ID? Or is it automatic with registering to vote?
The U.S. doesn't have a national ID system, and you generally have to pay to get a state ID that can be used for voter ID laws. So a bunch of people feel like many state voter ID laws create an extra bureaucratic hurdle for those who don't have an existing ID -- which is a small subset of poor people who are either young (18-22ish) or past retirement. If everyone had a free national voting ID issued, that would address a lot of the complaints people have about the unequal barrier.
A related issue is how U.S. voting is on a Tuesday -- and some people are pushing to make it a national holiday so everyone has equal time to get to the polls.
Quote from: jhkim;1137765Geeky - my understanding is that all citizens get their voting ID for free in Mexico. Is that correct? So people in remote places have to walk to a local center, but it's issued to them without them having to pay. Is there bureaucracy to navigate to correctly apply for the ID? Or is it automatic with registering to vote?
The U.S. doesn't have a national ID system, and you generally have to pay to get a state ID that can be used for voter ID laws. So a bunch of people feel like many state voter ID laws create an extra bureaucratic hurdle for those who don't have an existing ID -- which is a small subset of poor people who are either young (18-22ish) or past retirement. If everyone had a free national voting ID issued, that would address a lot of the complaints people have about the unequal barrier.
A related issue is how U.S. voting is on a Tuesday -- and some people are pushing to make it a national holiday so everyone has equal time to get to the polls.
Yes, it is "free". No, no extra bureaucratic hurdles, you apply to get your ID/Vote in one single day one single document. You get registered and you have to go back to pick up your ID at a latter date.
Only other bureaucratic hurdle would be to make sure you ARE in the voting lists. But this is done near the elections, not sure how it works in remote as fuck places.
Dude, if only you stopped giving illegal immigrants driving licenses (assuming your licenses are forgery proof), you wouldn't need an extra ID. But that has a cost even here. I mean a not hidden away cost as with our voter IDs that are "free".
But, I haven't heard the argument to make them free, I have heard the argument that wanting them is racist. I bet even republicans would be okay to pay for it via taxes if it was implemented.
Edited to add:
You need an ID to change checks, buy cigarettes, alcohol, etc. make this ID the voter ID, make it so only this ID works for buying alcohol, weed tobacco, etc. only ID banks can accept to cash your check, open an account, etc.Only ID accepted to get government benefits.
Wanna see people rush to get it?
Greetings!
The Dan Bongino program discusses the Republicans need for contrast, in explaining conservative programs and what conservatives stand for and believe in. Dan also discusses key elements of the Biden program, and how Democrats seek to gain a permanent political dominance in America.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
[video=youtube;RAyLLz2HRH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyLLz2HRH8[/youtube]
Quote from: SHARK;1137976Greetings!
The Dan Bongino program discusses the Republicans need for contrast, in explaining conservative programs and what conservatives stand for and believe in. Dan also discusses key elements of the Biden program, and how Democrats seek to gain a permanent political dominance in America.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
[video=youtube;RAyLLz2HRH8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAyLLz2HRH8[/youtube]
If they have permanent political dominance, that means they are no longer subject to the will of the people, the country becomes undemocratic and tyrannical and the only way to change that is through violence which pretty much means the end of the United States as we know it, and say hello to the United Empire of America! The United Empire of America could do things that the United States could not, the Democrats might unwittingly be the midwife to the United Empire, which would be a reaction to their leftism and Anti-Americanism. Instead of having a nation that dismantles itself, they might get a hyper nationalist and racist empire, it will be white and Christian, and be led by a First Citizen/Emperor. Protestors will be shot in the streets or be sent to prison camps or labor camps.
By destroying our democracy, the Democrats could be paving the way for this, they want to undermine our institutions and tear down our statues, it seems to me that they could be making a good case for American fascism, the Democrats want chaos and anarchy, what is the opposite of that? Anarchy never lasts, people don't like to feel unsafe, and if they feel that minorities want crime, disorder, and chaos, well guess what? They won't be treated very well by the new regime, they think we are a racist country now, just wait! By calling everyone they oppose or hate a "racist" they have taken the sting out of the word, and by saying whites are born racist, they have taken all incentives away for whites to act better, if no matter what they do they get called a "racist", they might become racist. They are proving that a multicultural country doesn't work when they tear down statues of George Washington and Abe Lincoln. "What's the use, we can't live with them, they want to defund the police and to make life more dangerous for us!" Is what whites would be saying. If they refuse to do their part to make this nation livable for all races and ethnic groups, then we will have no choice but to resegregate ourselves, this is not the America I want, neither is the Commie America that they want to bring about.
Absentee ballots have always been more subject to fraud than regular voting. This has been well understood for a long time by anyone performing an objective analysis. It was considered, on balance, to be worth the risk for a modest amount of absentee ballots because of the opportunity it gives people to vote who otherwise cannot do so. Note that "cannot" instead of "would be inconvenienced" which are not the same thing. When the numbers are relatively small, it is also easier to monitor the absentee ballots that are cast.
I know for a fact that the very first absentee ballot I attempted was used by a polling official for fraud--because I got my wires crossed and just missed the deadline and then didn't send it. Yet said polling official mentioned to a family member that they had seen my vote--conveniently marked opposite to what I would have done. This was in an election where it would have made no difference, but the attitude to cheat was ingrained.
We can't have Voter ID because black people don't know how to operate computers, have any ID or even know where their DMV might be. At least, that's what the genius white liberals of Berkeley had to say.
The looks on the faces of the black Americans in Harlem are priceless.
[video=youtube;yW2LpFkVfYk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk[/youtube]
Quote from: Spinachcat;1138584We can't have Voter ID because black people don't know how to operate computers, have any ID or even know where their DMV might be. At least, that's what the genius white liberals of Berkeley had to say.
The looks on the faces of the black Americans in Harlem are priceless.
[video=youtube;yW2LpFkVfYk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk[/youtube]
Greetings!
The black Americans are fucking awesome in this video. Their voice tone, the incredulity, and their facial expressions at the moron stupid assumptions made against them. The white people at Berkeley? What a bunch of racist fucking morons! You see the racist patronizing? The pathetic "The black people need us to show them the way! They need our leadership!" What a bunch of Communists!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1138590Greetings!
The black Americans are fucking awesome in this video. Their voice tone, the incredulity, and their facial expressions at the moron stupid assumptions made against them. The white people at Berkeley? What a bunch of racist fucking morons! You see the racist patronizing? The pathetic "The black people need us to show them the way! They need our leadership!" What a bunch of Communists!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
White leftists have weird interactions with blacks. They seem to think they need guidance, but at the same time they fetishize them in weird ways.
Back in the 70's, the Weather Underground attempted to gather the various radleft groups under the Prairie Fire banner, where they could be properly 'led' by the Weather ringleaders.
Hilariously, this did NOT go as planned. The Weather Underground leftists are utterly stunned to discover that the feminists, the blacks, the Puerto Ricans, the Amerinds, etc, have their own goals in mind and are totally uninterested in being led anywhere, especially by a pack of white upper-crust wine-cellar radicals. They got kicked out of the conference they themselves had organized. Good times.
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1138644White leftists have weird interactions with blacks. They seem to think they need guidance, but at the same time they fetishize them in weird ways.
Back in the 70's, the Weather Underground attempted to gather the various radleft groups under the Prairie Fire banner, where they could be properly 'led' by the Weather ringleaders.
Hilariously, this did NOT go as planned. The Weather Underground leftists are utterly stunned to discover that the feminists, the blacks, the Puerto Ricans, the Amerinds, etc, have their own goals in mind and are totally uninterested in being led anywhere, especially by a pack of white upper-crust wine-cellar radicals. They got kicked out of the conference they themselves had organized. Good times.
Was the weather underground white upper crust people? I guess I never looked into them that much, and how they identified themselves.
Quote from: SHARK;1138590The black Americans are fucking awesome in this video. Their voice tone, the incredulity, and their facial expressions at the moron stupid assumptions made against them. The white people at Berkeley? What a bunch of racist fucking morons! You see the racist patronizing? The pathetic "The black people need us to show them the way! They need our leadership!" What a bunch of Communists!
Quote from: Ghostmaker;1138644White leftists have weird interactions with blacks. They seem to think they need guidance, but at the same time they fetishize them in weird ways.
I don't disagree with this -- but the same is true with white conservatives. White politicians and others love to trot out black people when they support their position. It is seen as lending them legitimacy, but of course it's less common to have black leaders or listen to the majority of black people.
Quote from: jhkim;1138652I don't disagree with this -- but the same is true with white conservatives. White politicians and others love to trot out black people when they support their position. It is seen as lending them legitimacy, but of course it's less common to have black leaders or listen to the majority of black people.
Well, the big difference is black people who identify as conservative in public get their asses slagged ferociously by the left. I think a lot of leftists white folks who have all these strange ideas about black people, have never had black friends growing up, never played sports with and against black people, have never had dinner at a black person's house growing up, and in general get their views from television and what a professor tells them. But I will agree both sides do love to pander.
Quote from: jhkim;1138652I don't disagree with this -- but the same is true with white conservatives. White politicians and others love to trot out black people when they support their position. It is seen as lending them legitimacy, but of course it's less common to have black leaders or listen to the majority of black people.
It's a "politician" thing, not a left/right thing. What is particularly different about it with the left is more about the way the media treats it. Every kind of bias the media has--selective editing, refusal to report (AKA reporting by omission), the guests they get to comment, etc.--they are on display here.
Which is why the black conservative is so rapidly and so thoroughly--they don't object to his or her existence, they object to him or her being heard--because it contradicts the narrative they are carefully constructing with their biased techniques.
I think I feel the need to trot out this black guy, known White Supremacist who works at CNN, Don Lemon, and have him make a few points.
https://youtu.be/4ImPl01J5yM
At this moment in time, outspoken black conservatives are the bravest Americans. The level of hate directed at them is remarkable and in the face of that hate, they stand strong.
People may claim Candace Owens and others with paid gigs are just doing it for the money (doubtful), but there are a score of black conservatives on YouTube who won't back down in the hatestorm even though they're making pennies doing their videos.