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Author Topic: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.  (Read 100799 times)

GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #735 on: May 07, 2022, 01:35:41 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Assuming that Q isn't a Fed Psi-Op off course.
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Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

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jeff37923

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #736 on: May 07, 2022, 01:41:49 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Wow. I knew that you were a liar, but I hadn't thought that you were "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" level of fucked up until now.
"Meh."

jeff37923

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"Meh."

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #738 on: May 07, 2022, 01:58:39 PM »
If you think it's America's responsibility to police the world, go buy a ticket and fight & die for this vision yourself.
Just because you walk away from the table, doesn’t mean your not a player. The game of geopolitical alliances, trades, supports and stabilization/ de-stabilization existed for hundreds of years before the USA was ever an idea, and will exist long after its just a scribble in a textbook.

The USA has reasons to have the world order as it is right now, and a emboldened Russia is not to its benefit.
Everything else about morality or responsibility is just global cover.

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #739 on: May 07, 2022, 02:34:21 PM »
If you think it's America's responsibility to police the world, go buy a ticket and fight & die for this vision yourself.
Just because you walk away from the table, doesn’t mean your not a player. The game of geopolitical alliances, trades, supports and stabilization/ de-stabilization existed for hundreds of years before the USA was ever an idea, and will exist long after its just a scribble in a textbook.

The USA has reasons to have the world order as it is right now, and a emboldened Russia is not to its benefit.
Everything else about morality or responsibility is just global cover.
Not entirely true. While geopolitics is almost always about self-serving pragmatism, the US is occasionally an exception. America is one of the very, very few countries that sometimes intervenes against its own best interests, out of a higher sense of morality.

Of course, it's frequently a disaster. And the political class has learned to weaponize the public sentiment that leads to these well-meaning interventions, as seen most recently in the extreme propaganda about Ukraine, so it often ends up serving the geopolitical needs of the elites anyway.

In this specific case, I'm not sure an emboldened Russia matters. Their invasion has been a disaster, and demographics dooms any longer-term imperial ambitions. The bigger concern should be China, who clearly want to expand their influence to the first and second island chains, conquer Taiwan, and displace the US as the world's hegemon. They're also sitting on a demographic time bomb, so in the middle-future they will diminish as a threat, but in the short term they're more worrisome.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #740 on: May 07, 2022, 04:02:08 PM »
Of course, it's frequently a disaster. And the political class has learned to weaponize the public sentiment that leads to these well-meaning interventions, as seen most recently in the extreme propaganda about Ukraine, so it often ends up serving the geopolitical needs of the elites anyway.

What doesn't end up serving some elites in some way?
Quote
In this specific case, I'm not sure an emboldened Russia matters. Their invasion has been a disaster, and demographics dooms any longer-term imperial ambitions.

Russia is willing to soak a very large degree of trade sanctions for dreams of worthless empire. Each place it puts under its wing makes it both more bold, and more resistant to further sanctions. Its completly capable of smashing stuff before self-immolation. The west has chosen Ukraine to be that something.
Ukraine fighting off Russia isn't magic, nor was it a foregone conclusion. Incompitence on Russias part, and Ukaine recieving allot of critical supplies are very important factors.
Nor is the fight over yet to any degree. A bomb landed near where my great aunt lives a few days ago. Like a block off.

So Il admit to having a strong personal bais in this fight.

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #741 on: May 07, 2022, 04:13:51 PM »
Of course, it's frequently a disaster. And the political class has learned to weaponize the public sentiment that leads to these well-meaning interventions, as seen most recently in the extreme propaganda about Ukraine, so it often ends up serving the geopolitical needs of the elites anyway.

What doesn't end up serving some elites in some way?
Quote
In this specific case, I'm not sure an emboldened Russia matters. Their invasion has been a disaster, and demographics dooms any longer-term imperial ambitions.

Russia is willing to soak a very large degree of trade sanctions for dreams of worthless empire. Each place it puts under its wing makes it both more bold, and more resistant to further sanctions. Its completly capable of smashing stuff before self-immolation. The west has chosen Ukraine to be that something.
Ukraine fighting off Russia isn't magic, nor was it a foregone conclusion. Incompitence on Russias part, and Ukaine recieving allot of critical supplies are very important factors.
Nor is the fight over yet to any degree. A bomb landed near where my great aunt lives a few days ago. Like a block off.

So Il admit to having a strong personal bais in this fight.
Popular movements don't serve the elites, at least not until they're co-opted. Which clearly happens a lot, but they often have to go into damage control until they're subverted and reconceptualized. That's why "populism" is considered one of the greatest of evils.

Except that help comes with huge geopolitical consequences. Drones from the US and intel that helped the Ukrainians sink the Russian flagship in the Black Sea could be considered acts of war. Russia would be justified in retaliating against the US.

SHARK

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #742 on: May 07, 2022, 04:42:13 PM »
Of course, it's frequently a disaster. And the political class has learned to weaponize the public sentiment that leads to these well-meaning interventions, as seen most recently in the extreme propaganda about Ukraine, so it often ends up serving the geopolitical needs of the elites anyway.

What doesn't end up serving some elites in some way?
Quote
In this specific case, I'm not sure an emboldened Russia matters. Their invasion has been a disaster, and demographics dooms any longer-term imperial ambitions.

Russia is willing to soak a very large degree of trade sanctions for dreams of worthless empire. Each place it puts under its wing makes it both more bold, and more resistant to further sanctions. Its completly capable of smashing stuff before self-immolation. The west has chosen Ukraine to be that something.
Ukraine fighting off Russia isn't magic, nor was it a foregone conclusion. Incompitence on Russias part, and Ukaine recieving allot of critical supplies are very important factors.
Nor is the fight over yet to any degree. A bomb landed near where my great aunt lives a few days ago. Like a block off.

So Il admit to having a strong personal bais in this fight.
Popular movements don't serve the elites, at least not until they're co-opted. Which clearly happens a lot, but they often have to go into damage control until they're subverted and reconceptualized. That's why "populism" is considered one of the greatest of evils.

Except that help comes with huge geopolitical consequences. Drones from the US and intel that helped the Ukrainians sink the Russian flagship in the Black Sea could be considered acts of war. Russia would be justified in retaliating against the US.

Greetings!

Exactly, Pat. Indeed, by any reasonable understanding of warfare, Russia would be more than justified in retaliating against us. First order of business, set a three day time limit, anyone that continues to supply Ukraine will be considered an enemy nation, and suffer swift action against them. Strategic bombing, cruise missile strikes, full invasions, or nuclear weapons. BOOM. Either stop the fucking games or we go to war.

Make continuing to assist Ukraine entirely too risky, painful, or terrifying, and the proxy war bullshit would stop. It isn't a choice I would like to make, nor would I want our nation to be in the position of being forced to make such a choice. It is precisely why I cautioned us to be far more restrained, circumspect, and conservative with being involved in the Ukraine war in any way.

Is jerking our dick worth a dozen or two American cities, and 25 million dead Americans?

I think our fucking government should have been far more conservative and restrained regarding this whole war over there from the very beginning.

Ahh, well. Enjoy the fucking Decline.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #743 on: May 07, 2022, 04:48:27 PM »
Is jerking our dick worth a dozen or two American cities, and 25 million dead Americans?
Biden needs a war, or the midterms will be really bad, and Trump will rise in 2024 like a revenant.

Plus, his buddies will make a lot of money. (And so will he.)

The warfare state is self-perpetuating, because the elites in power have every incentive for more war.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #744 on: May 07, 2022, 04:55:34 PM »
Popular movements don't serve the elites, at least not until they're co-opted.

This assumes elites all play on one side of the board. Something is always in service of an elite.
Exactly, Pat. Indeed, by any reasonable understanding of warfare, Russia would be more than justified in retaliating against us.
Quote
Drones from the US and intel that helped the Ukrainians sink the Russian flagship in the Black Sea could be considered acts of war. Russia would be justified in retaliating against the US.
Russia is playing stupid games to win stupid prizes. There is a reason its not calling its own acts of aggression an act of war. And if your afraid of retaliation over ANYTHING regardless of circumstance, I suggest just surrendering all of Europe and start learning Russian right now. And Im being serious.

The statements by Putin and his aides have been making more sense to me as this goes on. This is as small a war as they can try to do without loosing face. If they make it any larger, then the internal military unrest has a greater and greater chance of internal revolt. You are correct that the war in Ukraine has been a disastrous embarassment. They are putting up the poker face for the internal civies, but the upper command knows whats going on. Their illusions have been shattered. If its been this much of a swamp for them going against Ukraine armed with cold-war equipment with a few dabs of modern tech.
No commander is thinking that planning a nation wide mobilization to go against NATO right now, is in any dimension a good idea.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #745 on: May 07, 2022, 08:09:29 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Assuming that Q isn't a Fed Psi-Op off course.

Yup could be that. I don't know anyone in that thread.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #746 on: May 07, 2022, 08:10:37 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Wow. I knew that you were a liar, but I hadn't thought that you were "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" level of fucked up until now.

WTF are you talking about? I didn't say anything about people who disagree with me and was not accusing anyone here of anything. Seriously Jeff, you're just fucking stupid sometimes. Like not mean stupid, just plain stupid stupid. You see things and you just don't think. You react like a dumb animal sometimes.

HappyDaze

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #747 on: May 07, 2022, 08:26:31 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Wow. I knew that you were a liar, but I hadn't thought that you were "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" level of fucked up until now.

WTF are you talking about? I didn't say anything about people who disagree with me and was not accusing anyone here of anything. Seriously Jeff, you're just fucking stupid sometimes. Like not mean stupid, just plain stupid stupid. You see things and you just don't think. You react like a dumb animal sometimes.
Jeff is just playing his character...

But seriously, all people react like a stupid animal at times. That's not a surprise since we have many basic nervous and endocrine responses in common with most mammals.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #748 on: May 07, 2022, 08:52:35 PM »
Jesus I am not seeing the Q-Annon Right trying to rehabilitate Tojo and the Japanese Empire blaming America for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, and claiming China would have beat Japan if the U.S. had just left Japan alone and not gotten involved.

Seriously, every time I think the Q-Right cannot get stupider they prove there is no bar set too low for them to go lower and stupider.

Wow. I knew that you were a liar, but I hadn't thought that you were "everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi" level of fucked up until now.

WTF are you talking about? I didn't say anything about people who disagree with me and was not accusing anyone here of anything. Seriously Jeff, you're just fucking stupid sometimes. Like not mean stupid, just plain stupid stupid. You see things and you just don't think. You react like a dumb animal sometimes.
Jeff is just playing his character...

But seriously, all people react like a stupid animal at times. That's not a surprise since we have many basic nervous and endocrine responses in common with most mammals.

I appreciate you reminding me, in your own way, that we're all in this together. I shouldn't react like that to Jeff. He means well, and he's a true blue nerd which I appreciate. I just get frustrated sometimes.

Sorry about that Jeff.

SHARK

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #749 on: May 07, 2022, 09:15:37 PM »
Greetings!

Jeff acts like a fucking DUMB ANIMAL!!!!! ;D

Yes. I always try and remind myself that SHARKS are fierce, bloodthirsty, and violent! Appropriate for one of the ocean's dominant, Apex predators! ;D

CHOMP! CHOMP! CHOMP!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b