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Author Topic: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.  (Read 100800 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #360 on: March 10, 2022, 04:38:29 PM »

It is worrisome that these guys are relying on social media posts without apparently doing any further research. Russia has had an active social media disinformation campaign going against Ukraine since 2014 that not only fabricate news, but also take existing reported information and respin it.

There are some neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. They had a tiny influence in 2014 and have had significantly less since. I reckon there are far, far fewer in Ukraine than in the Russia or the United States.
What you call 'worrisome' has been fairly common behavior here for a long while now.
Where's here? You are talking about the behavior of these Lotuseater podcasters commenting without research? That's absolutely true.
I'm commenting on the habits of many posters to confuse the presentations of their entertainers with being credible sources. Then they try to deflect criticism with "just watch the video" and similar idiocy.

HappyDaze is not talking about your favourite news source though.

They are actually credible sources.
If that news source is based on YouTube videos, then it's included.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #361 on: March 10, 2022, 04:52:16 PM »
To give nazis more context: nazis at first arrived in Ukraine as borderline liberators. After the near genocide by the hands of the mainly Russian USSR, the nazis where saviors by comparison. When their genocidal intent became more clear, the tune generally changed.

But Nazis have more mixed connotations in Ukraine then other Eastern Europe states for this reason.

Shasarak

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #362 on: March 10, 2022, 04:56:25 PM »

It is worrisome that these guys are relying on social media posts without apparently doing any further research. Russia has had an active social media disinformation campaign going against Ukraine since 2014 that not only fabricate news, but also take existing reported information and respin it.

There are some neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. They had a tiny influence in 2014 and have had significantly less since. I reckon there are far, far fewer in Ukraine than in the Russia or the United States.
What you call 'worrisome' has been fairly common behavior here for a long while now.
Where's here? You are talking about the behavior of these Lotuseater podcasters commenting without research? That's absolutely true.
I'm commenting on the habits of many posters to confuse the presentations of their entertainers with being credible sources. Then they try to deflect criticism with "just watch the video" and similar idiocy.

HappyDaze is not talking about your favourite news source though.

They are actually credible sources.
If that news source is based on YouTube videos, then it's included.

But HappyDaze all news sources are on youtube except for Russia news.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #363 on: March 10, 2022, 06:35:08 PM »
On Wednesday, YouTube slapped an inappropriate content warning on Oliver Stone's Ukraine on Fire (2016) and age restricted it, which is effectively a soft ban. Apparently, they don't like something about it, perhaps the way it points out that the Ukrainian leadership may be puppets of Washington, or the coverage of the Nazis.

The publishers have uploaded it to Rumble, with no restrictions:
https://rumble.com/vwxxi8-ukraine-on-fire.html

Ratman_tf

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #364 on: March 10, 2022, 06:51:42 PM »
Was wondering when someone was going to mention the neo-nazi connections in the Ukraine military.

Personally, I have a wait and see attitude. It's a shame that Russia is attacking Ukraine, but I have no deep insights into the conflict, or the people involved. I'd prefer if the US stayed out of it, because meddling in foreign affairs is usually various levels of disaster. Sounds like we're most likely to doink around with sanctions, indirect military support, and explicit humanitarian aid. I guess that's fine, as long as people realize 15-30 years down the road, political pundits will likely point out how these were terrible decisions in hindsight.
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Lynn

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #365 on: March 10, 2022, 07:03:14 PM »
There are some neo-Nazis and ultra-nationalists in Ukraine. They had a tiny influence in 2014 and have had significantly less since. I reckon there are far, far fewer in Ukraine than in the Russia or the United States.
What's far fewer than "almost none"? A battalion?

I started to look around for actual numbers, and curiously, Aljazeera claims it is 10-20% of about 900.

My understanding is that, trying to break them up would just create a dangerous, illegal group needing watching, whereas being undergunned and facing the rebels in Donbas backed by Russia, they were put to work and encouraged to reduce the goose stepping. Given eight years has since gone by, 10-20% seems small.
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Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #366 on: March 10, 2022, 08:43:03 PM »
Great. Even Duckduckgo is getting into the censorship game. Any good browsers left?

https://uk.pcmag.com/software-services/139164/duckduckgo-to-down-rank-sites-associated-with-russian-disinformation

oggsmash

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #367 on: March 10, 2022, 09:22:26 PM »
Great. Even Duckduckgo is getting into the censorship game. Any good browsers left?

https://uk.pcmag.com/software-services/139164/duckduckgo-to-down-rank-sites-associated-with-russian-disinformation

  I wonder who determines what is disinformation?  Ned Price?

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #368 on: March 10, 2022, 09:44:55 PM »
Let me put it on record that disinformation and censorship I stand against always. Ukraine doesn't need to be a 'Bastion of European Democracy' (instead of the 2nd world corruptionville it is) for the people dying there be worth protecting (or not) on their own merit.

Are there neo-nazis in Ukraine? Yes. Did putin send out an elite strike squad to eliminate them and only them? No. Will bombing civilians make the neo-Nazis go away? No.

The most likely ways I see this resolved is if Putin is internally deposed (could happen) or Ukraine as a subjegated state (demanding disarmament and neutrality after killing the people there is demanding they live in fear of you, with nobody else to turn to except for security except for you, their abuser), and Russia as a rogue state akin to North Korea (but the sanctions on it would weaken over time). I don't see this becoming an occupation because killing everybody in the area is much cheaper.

Shasarak

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #369 on: March 10, 2022, 10:43:26 PM »
The most likely ways I see this resolved is if Putin is internally deposed (could happen) or Ukraine as a subjegated state (demanding disarmament and neutrality after killing the people there is demanding they live in fear of you, with nobody else to turn to except for security except for you, their abuser), and Russia as a rogue state akin to North Korea (but the sanctions on it would weaken over time). I don't see this becoming an occupation because killing everybody in the area is much cheaper.

I dont see Putin wanting to kill everybody.  The war would probably have been a lot quicker if that was the case.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #370 on: March 10, 2022, 10:49:58 PM »
I dont see Putin wanting to kill everybody.  The war would probably have been a lot quicker if that was the case.
Its escalating to that point. I don't see this invasion or the military tactics as coming from a guy who really thought this out. Russia has a history of going into 'Fuck it - Level the City' when it doesn't get what it wants.

Shasarak

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #371 on: March 10, 2022, 11:10:22 PM »
I dont see Putin wanting to kill everybody.  The war would probably have been a lot quicker if that was the case.
Its escalating to that point. I don't see this invasion or the military tactics as coming from a guy who really thought this out. Russia has a history of going into 'Fuck it - Level the City' when it doesn't get what it wants.

Maybe bringing the West to its knees makes the invasion worthwhile.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Chris24601

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #372 on: March 11, 2022, 08:23:32 AM »
Great. Even Duckduckgo is getting into the censorship game. Any good browsers left?

https://uk.pcmag.com/software-services/139164/duckduckgo-to-down-rank-sites-associated-with-russian-disinformation
https://search.brave.com/

They went to the effort of building their own search engine system rather than piggyback off Google’s results like DuckDuckGo did.

Try a search there vs. Google/DDG and you’ll see a notable difference in results on “controversial” topics.

The owner of Brave is also the guy who invented JavaScript and helped found Mozilla as an alternative to Explorer. He’s been a long time advocate for internet privacy and his Brave browser even includes all sorts of built-in features for anonymity.

He’s already been “canceled” by the Left (and his reaction to that was to build his own uncancellable system) so there’s far less chance of him drinking the kool-aid to stay in their good graces.


Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #373 on: March 11, 2022, 08:44:47 AM »
Great. Even Duckduckgo is getting into the censorship game. Any good browsers left?

https://uk.pcmag.com/software-services/139164/duckduckgo-to-down-rank-sites-associated-with-russian-disinformation
https://search.brave.com/

They went to the effort of building their own search engine system rather than piggyback off Google’s results like DuckDuckGo did.

Try a search there vs. Google/DDG and you’ll see a notable difference in results on “controversial” topics.

The owner of Brave is also the guy who invented JavaScript and helped found Mozilla as an alternative to Explorer. He’s been a long time advocate for internet privacy and his Brave browser even includes all sorts of built-in features for anonymity.

He’s already been “canceled” by the Left (and his reaction to that was to build his own uncancellable system) so there’s far less chance of him drinking the kool-aid to stay in their good graces.
Good to know. I've switched my defaults.